"you are racist if you dont feel bad about being white"
1:10
how is that bad
she's telling people to help others
I am in a course right now that is actually teaching this. It is funny, but irritating as well, especially since my classmates seem to mostly be in agreement.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;42171778]1:10
how is that bad
she's telling people to help others[/QUOTE]
but she said privilege like in tumblr lol! argument invalidated
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;42171791]I am in a course right now that is actually teaching this. It is funny, but irritating as well, especially since my classmates seem to mostly be in agreement.[/QUOTE]
Teaching you that you should realize that other people aren't as well off as you?
How is that irritating?
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;42171807]Teaching you that you should realize that other people aren't as well off as you?
How is that irritating?[/QUOTE]
Teaching people that everything is the fault of white people is what is irritating. It is an incredibly ignorant statement and idea.
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;42171838]Teaching people that everything is the fault of white people is what is irritating. It is an incredibly ignorant statement and idea.[/QUOTE]
thanks for confirming that you probably didn't even pay attention to your course
also, who's blaming white people?
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;42171838]Teaching people that everything is the fault of white people is what is irritating. It is an incredibly ignorant statement and idea.[/QUOTE]
ok cool but literally no one is blaming white people
[editline]lol[/editline]
i'm super white and i agree with most of the things they're saying, am i a race traitor???
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;42171863]thanks for confirming that you probably didn't even pay attention to your course
also, who's blaming white people?[/QUOTE]
I have enough experience with the nutcases on tumblr that spout the same nonsense that even if I wasn't paying attention, even though I am, it wouldn't matter.
Also, the white people in the video who are blaming white people, are the ones blaming white people.
I'll admit that this video is pretty tame as far as the whole "white privilege" argument goes, and their heart is in the right place, but they should be asking [U]all[/U] people to chip in and help the less fortunate, not just those with "white privilege".
[editline]12th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;42171894]ok cool but literally no one is blaming white people
[editline]lol[/editline]
i'm super white and i agree with most of the things they're saying, am i a race traitor???[/QUOTE]
They are saying in the video that the audience needs to work towards dismantling "white supremacy" and need to check their privilege every day. I may be wrong, but that sounds to me like they are placing the responsibility on white people.
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;42171791]I am in a course right now that is actually teaching this. It is funny, but irritating as well, especially since my classmates seem to mostly be in agreement.[/QUOTE]
pff why can't eeryone see my ways sometimes i think im the only one in my class who knows how the world really is
[editline]12th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;42171926]I may be wrong, but that sounds to me like they are placing the responsibility on white people.[/QUOTE]
nah you dummy they are saying that white people need to use their position in order to bring all people, white or otherwise, up on the same level.
"With great privilege comes great responsibility."
- [I]Spider Man 2[/I]
[QUOTE=thisispain;42171956]pff why can't eeryone see my ways sometimes i think im the only one in my class who knows how the world really is[/QUOTE]
You seriously don't see anything racist about forcing the responsibilities and problems of the world on to one race? As a species it is our duty to [I]work together[/I], not pretend that just because the majority of one race lives in wealthy regions of the world, it is the responsibility of this race to fix everything.
Now if they were saying something like "North American Privilege" or "European Privilege"(doesn't apply to all European countries obviously 'cough' Greece 'cough', that would make sense, and I could agree with that.
[QUOTE=thisispain;42171956]
nah you dummy they are saying that white people need to use their position in order to bring all people, white or otherwise, up on the same level.[/QUOTE]
What position? Why does me being white suddenly mean I have some kind of special position? What does this position allow me to do?
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;42172015]You seriously don't see anything racist about forcing the responsibilities and problems of the world on to one race? [/QUOTE]
no because i dont read it that way
at least in america and africa white people have the dominant position economically and institutionally. why is it racist to say that should be changed?
no-one's gonna kill any white people so i dont see what your deal is, chillax d00d
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;42171926]I have enough experience with the nutcases on tumblr that spout the same nonsense that even if I wasn't paying attention, even though I am, it wouldn't matter.
Also, the white people in the video who are blaming white people, are the ones blaming white people.
I'll admit that this video is pretty tame as far as the whole "white privilege" argument goes, and their heart is in the right place, but they should be asking [U]all[/U] people to chip in and help the less fortunate, not just those with "white privilege".
[editline]12th September 2013[/editline]
They are saying in the video that the audience needs to work towards dismantling "white supremacy" and need to check their privilege every day. I may be wrong, but that sounds to me like they are placing the responsibility on white people.[/QUOTE]
i understand how it might sound like they're attacking you but it's really nothing like that! the internet has warped this "check your privilege" thing into a huge buzzword that instantly makes people think of slacktivist morons who don't know what they're talking about
"privilege" is a [URL="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Privilege"]valid concept in sociology[/URL] and refers to unwritten and unrecognized benefits that certain groups have over others. to us, our privilege doesn't exist because we've always had it and we take it for granted, but other groups not as privileged will obviously see that we have it (read the article for a better explanation).
"check your privilege" simply means "put yourself in my shoes", that's literally it, it shouldn't have to be such a snarl term. i'll admit that white people do have problems of our own but in the grand scheme of things we really hold the top of the social pyramid.
yes, all people should provide aid to those who are worse off, but we also need to recognize the fact that we, simply for being who we are, are privileged when compared to say, african americans or latin people.
i hope you don't take offense to this because i genuinely believe most of the shitstorms surrounding this topic are mostly due to misinformation and misunderstandings, i just want to clear that up.
[QUOTE=thisispain;42171956]
nah you dummy they are saying that white people need to use their position in order to bring all people, white or otherwise, up on the same level.[/QUOTE]
Are white garbagemen on the same level as white members of government? Are white fast food workers on the same level as white doctors?
No, and this is stereotyping at its finest. Just because the vast majority of white people live in areas that have large numbers of "privileged" white people, doesn't mean that all white people are "privileged". I would actually argue that probably at least 30% of white people don't have this so called "white privilege".
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;42172022]What position? Why does me being white suddenly mean I have some kind of special position? What does this position allow me to do?[/QUOTE]
being white opens you up to a big chunk of opportunities in the system you participate in
when you compare a white dude and a black dude side-by-side theres no difference, but when you place them in certain positions in society, society will respond differently to them and that in turn determines how they act.
i know that in england if you're a part of our dear queen's church people will respond to you in a much more positive manner than they would if you subscribed to islam, and in just in my own anecdotal and useless experience i was treated differently for being an ethnic jew
being myopic and bringing it down to a personal level misses the fact that we are talking about something utterly impersonal
[editline]12th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;42172054]Are white garbagemen on the same level as white members of government? Are white fast food workers on the same level as white doctors? [/QUOTE]
white people and white privilege is short-hand, it doesnt explicitly mean every single caucasian person.
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;42172054]No, and this is stereotyping at its finest. Just because the vast majority of white people live in areas that have large numbers of "privileged" white people, doesn't mean that all white people are "privileged". I would actually argue that probably at least 30% of white people don't have this so called "white privilege".[/QUOTE]
that's a red herring really, what difference does it make?
[QUOTE=thisispain;42172078]being white opens you up to a big chunk of opportunities in the system you participate in
when you compare a white dude and a black dude side-by-side theres no difference, but when you place them in certain positions in society, society will respond differently to them and that in turn determines how they act.
i know that in england if you're a part of our dear queen's church people will respond to you in a much more positive manner than they would if you subscribed to islam, and in just in my own anecdotal and useless experience i was treated differently for being an ethnic jew
being myopic and bringing it down to a personal level misses the fact that we are talking about something utterly impersonal[/QUOTE]
Well no there really isn't anything I can do, just because I'm white doesn't mean I can do anything about bigotry. I am not a bigot, that should be enough, but apparently if I'm not constantly reminding myself how white I am, this just isn't enough for people like this.
As far as I'm concerned these people can fuck off and need to find a better way of fighting ethnic barriers other than collective guilt. I'm sick of this "if you're not with us you're against us" mentality, as if I have some kind of obligation towards them.
[QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;42172039]i understand how it might sound like they're attacking you but it's really nothing like that! the internet has warped this "check your privilege" thing into a huge buzzword that instantly makes people think of slacktivist morons who don't know what they're talking about
"privilege" is a [URL="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Privilege"]valid concept in sociology[/URL] and refers to unwritten and unrecognized benefits that certain groups have over others. to us, our privilege doesn't exist because we've always had it and we take it for granted, but other groups not as privileged will obviously see that we have it (read the article for a better explanation).
"check your privilege" simply means "put yourself in my shoes", that's literally it, it shouldn't have to be such a snarl term. i'll admit that white people do have problems of our own but in the grand scheme of things we really hold the top of the social pyramid.
yes, all people should provide aid to those who are worse off, but we also need to recognize the fact that we, simply for being who we are, are privileged when compared to say, african americans or latin people.
[B]i hope you don't take offense to this[/B] because i genuinely believe most of the shitstorms surrounding this topic are mostly due to misinformation and misunderstandings, i just want to clear that up.[/QUOTE]
Of course not! I only have a problem with certain parts of the privilege argument, not the entire thing.
The only area where I have a problem with this is in the whole 'white' part of the privilege argument. I absolutely agree that many places on the planet have a privilege of sorts over other places, but I don't think it's as black and white(no pun intended) as just races. I mean, there are tons of successful/rich people in China, while much of their population lives in squalor. In America, many Black people live in "ghetto's" but at the same time, there are large numbers of successful black people as well. In my opinion, the same should apply for white people.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;42172022]What position? Why does me being white suddenly mean I have some kind of special position? What does this position allow me to do?[/QUOTE]
i thought our special power is the lack of our ability to dance
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;42172147]Well no there really isn't anything I can do, just because I'm white doesn't mean I can do anything about bigotry. I am not a bigot, that should be enough, but apparently if I'm not constantly reminding myself how white I am, this just isn't enough for people like this.[/QUOTE]
idk i dont see it that way. i think being aware of it and doing whatever you can to not negatively impact people in situations where it's a matter of ethnicity is far more than what most people would even care to do.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;42172147]As far as I'm concerned these people can fuck off and need to find a better way of fighting ethnic barriers other than collective guilt. I'm sick of this "if you're not with us you're against us" mentality, as if I have some kind of obligation towards them.[/QUOTE]
to me sympathy and appealing to the common person is more effective than collective guilt. don't knock the concept which has had a lot of thought behind it just because there are people twisting your arm
i think most of it is just frustration because the generations after the baby boomers realised that flower power isnt going to do much to end poverty
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;42172147]Well no there really isn't anything I can do, just because I'm white doesn't mean I can do anything about bigotry. I am not a bigot, that should be enough, but apparently if I'm not constantly reminding myself how white I am, this just isn't enough for people like this.
As far as I'm concerned these people can fuck off and need to find a better way of fighting ethnic barriers other than collective guilt. I'm sick of this "if you're not with us you're against us" mentality, as if I have some kind of obligation towards them.[/QUOTE]
you don't have to remind yourself how white you are, all you have to is just be empathetic in general, recognize that other groups lack a benefit that we may take for granted, etc. that's what "privilege" is all about.
i know that as individuals there's not a lot we can do about bigotry recognizing these little things helps a lot. it's not about collective guilt, it's about empathy, simple as that.
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;42172192]In America, many Black people live in "ghetto's" but at the same time, there are large numbers of successful black people as well. In my opinion, the same should apply for white people.[/QUOTE]
when you read up on the statistics youll find that black people are institutionally robbed of opportunities whether its defacto segregation, economical disadvantages, or the criminal justice system
[editline]12th September 2013[/editline]
i dont think im being racist against white people when i say those are totally lame things we should all try and change
[QUOTE=thisispain;42172078]
white people and white privilege is short-hand, it doesnt explicitly mean every single caucasian person.
[B]that's a red herring really, what difference does it make?[/B][/QUOTE]
The difference that it makes is that it is a huge generalization to say that white people are more privileged than other races. Much of Southeast Europe(and Latvia, Lithuania, Ukraine, etc) is made up white people, and yet it is a well known that they all face problems with poverty. Since these people are largely white, is it their obligation to support the struggling nations of Africa, The Middle East, or Asia?
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;42172261]The difference that it makes is that it is a huge generalization to say that white people are more privileged than other races. Much of Southeast Europe(and Latvia, Lithuania, Ukraine, etc) is made up white people, and yet it is a well known that they all face problems with poverty. Since these people are largely white, is it their obligation to support the struggling nations of Africa, The Middle East, or Asia?[/QUOTE]
of course not, thats why i said white people is short-hand when its used in this context
you cant expect people to single-handedly point out specifically which segment of white populations they mean
[QUOTE=thisispain;42172234]when you read up on the statistics youll find that black people are institutionally robbed of opportunities whether its defacto segregation, economical disadvantages, or the criminal justice system
[editline]12th September 2013[/editline]
i dont think im being racist against white people when i say those are totally lame things we should all try and change[/QUOTE]
Since I am Canadian, I don't know how it is in America, but I know for a fact that in Canada, we fully embrace our multiculturalism and push for all races to reach their full potential. If in America, various races are oppressed and robbed of their opportunities, that isn't the fault of white people, if anything it is the fault of the government. Afterall, education is a governmental institution, not a white people institution for only white people.
[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;42172197]i thought our special power is the lack of our ability to dance[/QUOTE]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/KqrrncQ.gif[/img]
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;42172292]Since I am Canadian, I don't know how it is in America, but I know for a fact that in Canada, we fully embrace our multiculturalism and push for all races to reach their full potential. If in America, various races are oppressed and robbed of their opportunities, that isn't the fault of white people, if anything it is the fault of the government. Afterall, education is a governmental institution, not a white people institution for only white people.[/QUOTE]
well there are plenty of canadians that would dispute that but ok
and white people benefit strongly from these opportunities.
i dont know why you are more worried about the concept of fault, i don't really see why its important who's fault it is
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;42172192]Of course not! I only have a problem with certain parts of the privilege argument, not the entire thing.
The only area where I have a problem with this is in the whole 'white' part of the privilege argument. I absolutely agree that many places on the planet have a privilege of sorts over other places, but I don't think it's as black and white(no pun intended) as just races. I mean, there are tons of successful/rich people in China, while much of their population lives in squalor. In America, many Black people live in "ghetto's" but at the same time, there are large numbers of successful black people as well. In my opinion, the same should apply for white people.[/QUOTE]
there is truth to that, i totally understand that not all people are super privileged, but that's not what the concept of privilege deals with. sure, some black people are successful and some white people live in squalor, but in the grand scheme of things (specifically in western society), white people hold much more power than other races. look at statistics and you'll find that most western governments are overwhelmingly white, that most corporate executives are white, etc. that's because there's a cultural bias that remains from the highly racist beliefs that were commonplace and institutionalized back in the day.
white people aren't to blame for this, the generations who came before us and created this cultural bias are. i know that getting yelled at for something you didn't do is irritating and i know a lot of the people who spouse my views can also be irritating but really, don't take it personally and don't take it as an insult, just take it as criticism that will help you be a better person.
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