Syrian border town, Kobani, falling to ISIS, leader of Turkey says
60 replies, posted
[QUOTE]
MURSITPINAR, Turkey — President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey said Tuesday that the Syrian border town of Kobani, under siege from Islamic State fighters, was about to fall to the militants despite United States-led airstrikes on the group.
Asserting that aerial attacks alone may not be enough to stop the fighters’ advance, Mr. Erdogan called for more support for insurgents in [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/syria/index.html?inline=nyt-geo"]Syria[/URL] who are battling the Islamic State, and reiterated Turkey’s earlier call for a no-fly zone and a buffer zone along the border. Yet he stopped short of committing Turkey to any ground operation, something he has long said would require an international agreement and a no-fly zone.
His comments highlighted a key sticking point between Turkey and Washington: President Obama wants Turkey to take stronger action against the Islamic State, while Mr. Erdogan wants the American effort to focus more on ousting Syria’s president, Bashar al-Assad. Turkey has long supported the armed opposition to Mr. Assad.
[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/08/world/middleeast/isis-syria-coalition-strikes.html[/url]
We really need boots on the ground to beat IS. Dropping bombs on them can only do so much.
Don't worry Turkey, you watched as hard as you could:
[url]http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/10/turkey-there-just-watch-kobane-201410481243432189.html[/url]
[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/05/turkey-kurds-kobani_n_5935072.html[/url]
[quote]His comments highlighted a key sticking point between Turkey and Washington: President Obama wants Turkey to take stronger action against the Islamic State, while Mr. Erdogan wants the American effort to focus more on ousting Syria’s president, Bashar al-Assad. Turkey has long supported the armed opposition to Mr. Assad.[/quote]
I find this slightly disturbing. The US is in Syria claiming to be helping fight IS, I feel its only a matter of time till they reveal their true intention of removing Assad as well.
[QUOTE=Spetsnaz95;46175823]We really need boots on the ground to beat IS. Dropping bombs on them can only do so much.[/QUOTE]
It's happening again.
[QUOTE=Spetsnaz95;46175823]We really need boots on the ground to beat IS. Dropping bombs on them can only do so much.[/QUOTE]
ISIS aren't enough of a threat (to US soil) to really justify sending the youth to die.
If you want war, you should be signing up instead of bitching about us not sending troops.
[QUOTE=Megadave;46175893]ISIS aren't enough of a threat to really justify sending the youth to die.
If you want war, you should be signing up instead of bitching about us not sending troops.[/QUOTE]
Threatening to wrestle complete control over a country from the government's hands (controlling the majority of said country) and holding large swaths of land of a second country isn't enough of a threat? The fuck does something need to do before you consider it a threat?
[QUOTE=Megadave;46175893][B]ISIS aren't enough of a threat[/B] to really justify sending the youth to die.
If you want war, you should be signing up instead of bitching about us not sending troops.[/QUOTE]
What
WHAT
They literally control 3/4 of Iraq and 1/3 of Syria and plan to establish an oppressive Caliphate regime that will send the people there back to the Dark Ages. Not only that but they have been violently killing Kurds and Yazidis and have been beheading journalists and whatnot AS WELL as crucifying people who don't follow THEIR version of Islam.
If this doesn't justify boots on the ground I don't know what is.
[QUOTE=Spetsnaz95;46175823]We really need boots on the ground to beat IS. Dropping bombs on them can only do so much.[/QUOTE]
Worked so well every other time right?
The Turkish gov must be thrilled, all the benefits of a good old fashioned pogrom against a pesky minority but minus any of the culpability.
[QUOTE=joshuadim;46175962]What
WHAT
They literally control 3/4 of Iraq and 1/3 of Syria and plan to establish an oppressive Caliphate regime that will send the people there back to the Dark Ages. Not only that but they have been violently killing Kurds and Yazidis and have been beheading journalists and whatnot AS WELL as crucifying people who don't follow THEIR version of Islam.
If this doesn't justify boots on the ground I don't know what is.[/QUOTE]
Correction: A threat to the US. They are going to be pissing in Turkey's cheerios soon enough, and we won't need to directly fight them. All we need to do is weaken them enough to where the surrounding states can eliminate them. Only NATO can truly solve this mess, and if NATO can't then the US sure as fuck can't.
[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;46175960]Threatening to wrestle complete control over a country from the government's hands (controlling the majority of said country) and holding large swaths of land of a second country isn't enough of a threat? The fuck does something need to do before you consider it a threat?[/QUOTE]
Direct attack on a NATO country.
[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;46175960]Threatening to wrestle complete control over a country from the government's hands (controlling the majority of said country) and holding large swaths of land of a second country isn't enough of a threat? The fuck does something need to do before you consider it a threat?[/QUOTE]
Didn't we used to say something similar about Somalia?
If ISIS take one step into Turkey, they're absolutely, royally fucked. Turkey, every country which borders Turkey, and likely the countries bordering them will all be sending soldiers at the very least.
If Turkey is attacked, IS pretty much warrant themselves a war with Europe, if loyalty to the NATO agreement proves its usefulness.
[QUOTE=Spetsnaz95;46175823]We really need boots on the ground to beat IS. Dropping bombs on them can only do so much.[/QUOTE]
Go ahead Denmark. Send as many troops as you want.
[QUOTE=Megadave;46175893]ISIS aren't enough of a threat to really justify sending the youth to die.
If you want war, you should be signing up instead of bitching about us not sending troops.[/QUOTE]
You must be literally retarded, they are a handful of kilometres from Baghdad.
[editline]7th October 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Megadave;46176090]Correction: A threat to the US. They are going to be pissing in Turkey's cheerios soon enough, and we won't need to directly fight them. All we need to do is weaken them enough to where the surrounding states can eliminate them. Only NATO can truly solve this mess, and if NATO can't then the US sure as fuck can't.
Direct attack on a NATO country.[/QUOTE]
Do you not understand how this situation goes? If so you're the only dumbass without any foresight.
They will take land, they will fight tooth and nail to hold it and then they'll win cause they're pushing hard already right now. Then they'll consolidate their power, and expand again. Then when they're stronger they'll launch their shitbird attacks on the US and Europe and drag us kicking and screaming into a war in the Middle East except across a bunch of countries, with more fighters and more material.
Either we fight them now and actually finish them off, or we act like fucking retards and let them prepare to fight us later.
You make it seem like every person in the middle east is plotting to join ISIS. Even if ISIS was able to somehow capture everything west of Iran they would still have a very hard time managing that much territory, and even then one part of ISIS could grow envious, and would start warring with the other. I just don't see how they would be able to stay stable and united amongst airstrikes and eventually Turkey reigning down upon them.
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;46176126]If ISIS take one step into Turkey, they're absolutely, royally fucked. Turkey, every country which borders Turkey, and likely the countries bordering them will all be sending soldiers at the very least.[/QUOTE]
Like IS hasn't done that a dozen times already. I read somewhere that Kuridsh forces said that IS forces took shortcuts several times to engage them, can't verify it though.
Besides actual troops, Turkey has allowed members of IS to be treated in Turkish hospitals and allowed IS members to travel virtually freely across Turkey (there are several youtube video's about this).
Found one
[video=youtube;3f5-TM-67Gg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f5-TM-67Gg[/video]
[QUOTE=Megadave;46176531]You make it seem like every person in the middle east is plotting to join ISIS. Even if ISIS was able to somehow capture everything west of Iran they would still have a very hard time managing that much territory, and even then one part of ISIS could grow envious, and would start warring with the other. I just don't see how they would be able to stay stable and united amongst airstrikes and eventually Turkey reigning down upon them.[/QUOTE]
The problem is ISIS seems intent on murdering everyone else in the Middle East.
Probably because after 30 years of getting bombed they're pretty adept at not being in the open to get bombed.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;46176256]Go ahead Denmark. Send as many troops as you want.[/QUOTE]
"Yes sir, commander US!"
Seriously though, how are we going to defeat them by dropping bombs on them? For every guy we kill, it seems like five more step forward to take his place. And while the bombing runs might be useful for taking out the captured vehicles they possess, they still have a ton of foot soldiers that will happily continue the fight.
I saw some protesters today, and they wanted the government to send more aid to Kurdistan for the fight against IS.
I think there might be some support here in Sweden for the fight against IS.
But seeing how negligible the aid to Ukraine has been despite that conflict being on our doorstep, I doubt it.
[QUOTE=joshuadim;46175962]What
WHAT
Saddam literally controls all of Iraq and supports terrorism and runs an oppressive regime that will send the people to the firing line. Not only that but they have been violently killing Kurds and Yazidis AS WELL as massacring people who don't follow THEIR form of Baathism!
If this doesn't justify boots on the ground I don't know what is.[/QUOTE]
Seriously if you think ISIS is such a massive threat to the US you must have thought Saddam was a massive threat, because on every level Saddam could have been a larger threat.
Appeals to emotions don't belong in geopolitics and it always makes me fucking mad seeing them. You like appealing to emotions go save half of the countries in Africa. Oh you mean to say your mainstream news doesn't thump their chest about people dying in droves in Africa so you don't care/dont know? What a surprise.
Things like ISIS don't just magically happen there is cause and effect and ISIS was formed for reasons that are way too long gone to try and correct now.
I repeat myself so damn much I feel like a broken record I may as well just keep a copy pasta because I've formulated longer and better rebuttals before but I feel like I'm beating a dead horse in front of a crowd of deaf people.
Iraq and Syria are too long gone for some bullshit foreign interventionism that's propping up a rotten busted house with elastics. Both countries need to balkanize that is the only reasonable option I can think of, unless you want continual war until they just massacre each other into oblivion.
Especially not some nonsense air campaign that has done little to nothing in stopping ISIS advances, they have total initiative on all fronts and continue to have a streak of victories. You want to play the foreign intervention stick your finger in things game you either go ALL in or ALL out not some half assed garbage that just perpetuates the problem. Do you seriously want 100,000s of Americans on the ground yet again trying to police a country that isn't theirs?
Fuck this shit is just so short sighted I can't handle it.
Not ranting at you specifically joshuadim just people with similar opinions as you.
[QUOTE=Aman;46177273]Seriously if you think ISIS is such a massive threat to the US you must have thought Saddam was a massive threat, because on every level Saddam could have been a larger threat.
Appeals to emotions don't belong in geopolitics and it always makes me fucking mad seeing them. You like appealing to emotions go save half of the countries in Africa. Oh you mean to say your mainstream news doesn't thump their chest about people dying in droves in Africa so you don't care/dont know? What a surprise.
Things like ISIS don't just magically happen there is cause and effect and ISIS was formed for reasons that are way too long gone to try and correct now.
I repeat myself so damn much I feel like a broken record I may as well just keep a copy pasta because I've formulated longer and better rebuttals before but I feel like I'm beating a dead horse in front of a crowd of deaf people.
Iraq and Syria are too long gone for some bullshit foreign interventionism that's propping up a rotten busted house with elastics. Both countries need to balkanize that is the only reasonable option I can think of, unless you want continually war until they just massacre each other into oblivion.
Especially not some nonsense air campaign that has done little to nothing in stopping ISIS advances, they have total initiative on all fronts and continue to have a streak of victories. You want to play the foreign intervention stick your finger in things game you either go ALL in or ALL out not some half assed garbage that just perpetuates the problem. Do you seriously want 100,000s of Americans on the ground yet again trying to police a country that isn't theirs?
Fuck this shit is just so short sighted I can't handle it.
Not ranting at you specifically joshuadim just people with similar opinions as you...[/QUOTE]
Saddam wasn't constantly expanding and didn't openly announce threats to the entire world.
Your solution is an end without means and leaving the situation to rapidly deteriorate in the meantime just isn't an option, though it's annoying that no local forces can step up to the plate.
[QUOTE=RAG Frag;46177374]Saddam wasn't constantly expanding and didn't openly announce threats to the entire world.
Your solution is an end without means, and leaving the situation to rapidly deteriorate in the meantime just isn't an option, though it's annoying that no local forces can step up to the plate.[/QUOTE]
And getting heavily involved in the region is just a means without any end.
Airstrikes will not destroy ISIS. You wanna send troops? Because that is exactly what ISIS wants, airstrikes alone got them thousands of recruits and support what do you think an invasion by the western aggressors with do?
The Iraqi state is a joke, it should collapse and something come from its ashes because propping up a puppet government is just bad vibes.
[editline]7th October 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;46176126]If ISIS take one step into Turkey, they're absolutely, royally fucked. Turkey, every country which borders Turkey, and likely the countries bordering them will all be sending soldiers at the very least.[/QUOTE]
Takes one step into Turkey? lol they waltz around Turkey and across the border freely constantly.
It's only been more recently with America breathing down Turkey's neck that they've tried to clamp down a bit more.
Turkey sees this as a giant win-win for them, they probably couldn't care less as long as it stays out of their borders and they are happy to make backroom deals (which they've already done) with ISIS to keep it that way.
Two enemies beaten with a free stone, Assad and Kurds.
[QUOTE=Aman;46177397] You wanna send troops? Because that is exactly what ISIS wants,[/QUOTE]
I am sorry but what the fuck goes through people's heads when they say something like this?
If Turkey, a NATO member, is attacked doesn't that mean the rest of NATO must come to its defense?
[QUOTE=Flapjacks;46177661]If Turkey, a NATO member, is attacked doesn't that mean the rest of NATO must come to its defense?[/QUOTE]
They probably should, otherwise Putin might get cocky.
[QUOTE=Flapjacks;46177661]If Turkey, a NATO member, is attacked doesn't that mean the rest of NATO must come to its defense?[/QUOTE]
I think the Treaty itself only covers attacks by belligerent countries. Since nobody actually recognizes the IS, nobody will be bound to retaliate unless they want to.
[QUOTE=Flapjacks;46177661]If Turkey, a NATO member, is attacked doesn't that mean the rest of NATO must come to its defense?[/QUOTE]
I'm sure some countries will find loopholes of some sort. "Oh, they're not a country so it doesn't count"
But even if every country rallies, it's not like a huge army of Europe and Americans are going to march into Turkey and kick ISIS out.
A few will send troops, some will send military supplies, a few will do air strikes and probably not do much else unless ISIS seriously threatens much of Turkey (by which time it would probably be too late or an American army will already be on the ground).
[editline]7th October 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Spetsnaz95;46176605]"Yes sir, commander US!"
Seriously though, how are we going to defeat them by dropping bombs on them? For every guy we kill, it seems like five more step forward to take his place. And while the bombing runs might be useful for taking out the captured vehicles they possess, they still have a ton of foot soldiers that will happily continue the fight.[/QUOTE]
The situation is like the "Not in my backyard" ideology of nuclear waste.
Everyone supports the idea of an army going in there and tearing ISIS up.
But no one wants it to be [I]their[/I] army going in and dying and having to do country rebuilding and stabilizing (that would most likely fail in the long term yet again anyway).
[QUOTE=Thlis;46177554]I am sorry but what the fuck goes through people's heads when they say something like this?[/QUOTE]
You don't think this plays into their hands?
This fulfills the prophecy they preach to a tee only further justifying themselves with their supporters. How do[I] you[/I] not see this?
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