Churchill Fails Exam - Polidicks

[quote=BBC NEWS]The computer did not like 'repetition' in the speech Winston Churchill's iconic "fight them on the beaches" speech did not make the grade when it was marked by a computer system, exam experts have said. And extracts from modern classics such as Lord of the Flies by William Golding and a novel by Ernest Hemingway also failed to impress the computer. All were marked down by a US program designed to assess students' essays. UK exam boards and the qualifications development agency are experimenting with similar procedures. At the moment, in the UK, computers are used only to mark some GCSE multiple-choice exam papers, in which there are right and wrong answers. But exam boards are working on systems which would allow pupils to sit their exams online and for them to be marked by computer. The agency responsible for developing such things - QCDA - has also run trials. David Wright, chief executive of the Chartered Institute of Educational Assessment (CIEA), said Churchill's Battle of Britain radio speech in 1940, known as "Their Finest Hour", was marked down for repetition and the wrong use of words. The institute - which represents exam boards and other bodies involved with testing and assessment - had put the speech and works by various authors through a system currently used in America. The speech begins: "What General Weygand has called the Battle of France is over: the Battle of Britain is about to begin. "Upon this battle depends the survival of Christian civilisation. Upon it depends our own British life, and the long continuity of our institutions and our Empire. "The whole fury and might of the enemy must very soon be turned on us." But Mr Wright said the computer marking the speech had not liked the repetition of the words "upon" and "our" and stated that the word "might" had been used wrongly. Mr Wright said: "Emotion is something it can't deal with, human beings are built on emotion." As for William Golding, an extract from Lord of the Flies was criticised as having "inaccurate and erratic sentence structure". Ernest Hemingway's The End of Something was also marked as not up to standard. In this case, the writer was said to have "shown lack of care in style of writing and vocabulary". The deputy head of the CIEA, Graham Herbert, said: "It is an issue we have found with computer marking: a computer does not understand emotion and purpose." The subtleties of the English language were something a computer could miss, he said. Mr Herbert said online assessment was good for marking multiple choice or short answers. But he added: "When it is being used to assess complex English language, then it begins to show its limitations." One of the exam boards which had been looking at the possible use of computers to mark essay questions was Edexcel, but it has no plans to bring this in. A spokeswoman for the exam board said: "We are not planning to use this technology for any GQ (general qualification) exams. "Edexcel trialled computerised automated marking of essay questions on dummy GCSE scripts in 2006. These were very small scale and we have decided not to pursue them at this time."[/quote] Them compooters is planning something... But they'll never out smert me!

okay so that guy was the commander in chief of Britain during the worlds biggest war and now they have the balls to criticize his grammar, thats asinine

[QUOTE=Jessesmith1;18337537]okay so that guy was the commander in chief of Britain during the worlds biggest war and now they have the balls to criticize his grammar, thats asinine[/QUOTE] your ass in mine wait what

The fucking idiots who made this exam should be ashamed. Churchill was one of our finest leaders and was probably what kept the Allies alive during the darkest days of the War, and now they're criticizing him for using slightly incorrect grammar?

:smug: gaybows incoming for saikotic

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;18337854]The fucking idiots who made this exam should be ashamed. Churchill was one of our finest leaders and was probably what kept the Allies alive during the darkest days of the War, and now they're criticizing him for using slightly incorrect grammar?[/QUOTE] They're criticizing his grammar, not his leadership skills.

"US Computer"? Explains everything...

[QUOTE=Jessesmith1;18337537]okay so that guy was the commander in chief of Britain during the worlds biggest war and now they have the balls to criticize his grammar, thats asinine[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;18337854]The fucking idiots who made this exam should be ashamed. Churchill was one of our finest leaders and was probably what kept the Allies alive during the darkest days of the War, and now they're criticizing him for using slightly incorrect grammar?[/QUOTE] You guys are completely missing the point here

The point of the repetition was to get the idea into your head that we would never give up, no matter what Germany did to us. Repetition makes things stick in your head, and in the case of this speech, it is a powerful weapon.

[quote]Winston Churchill's iconic "fight them on the beaches" speech did not make the grade when it was marked by a computer system, exam experts have said.[/quote] This test is dumb, it heavily marks against repetition, but the entire effect of that speech was the repetition, emphasising the relentless pushing from the seas, to the beaches, into the country

[QUOTE=dcalde78;18338000]The point of the repetition was to get the idea into your head that we would never give up, no matter what Germany did to us. Repetition makes things stick in your head, and in the case of this speech, it is a powerful weapon.[/QUOTE] Aye but sadly its only programed to judge content not context.

[QUOTE=dcalde78;18338000]The point of the repetition was to get the idea into your head that we would never give up, no matter what Germany did to us. Repetition makes things stick in your head, and in the case of this speech, it is a powerful weapon.[/QUOTE] :argh: ninja'd

[quote]All were marked down by a US program designed to assess students' essays. [/quote] Well there's your problem

I actually thought that speech was very cool. Ah, computers can't do everything [I]just[/I] yet.

[QUOTE=Jessesmith1;18337537]okay so that guy was the commander in chief of Britain during the worlds biggest war and now they have the balls to criticize his grammar, thats asinine[/QUOTE] Great 1000th post

[QUOTE=:smug:;18338411]Great 1000th post[/QUOTE] it wasn't my 1000th though

This should only even be [b]considered[/b] once a computer has passed the Turing Test.

[QUOTE=Jessesmith1;18338541]it wasn't my 1000th though[/QUOTE] Still a terrible post.

[QUOTE=DOG-GY;18338712]Still a terrible post.[/QUOTE] Is this a terrible 1000th post?

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;18338768]Is this a terrible 1000th post?[/QUOTE] No bro best post ever.

[QUOTE=DOG-GY;18338840]No bro best post ever.[/QUOTE] :buddy: EDIT Anyway back on topic. I suppose using computers to mark a maths test is fine, but a computer can barely even hold a conversation with a human right now, let alone grasp the intricacies, subtleties and ironies of the English language, or any other language for that matter.

It's three examples over 50 years old, of course an exam modeled for modern language is going to mark it poorly. Not to mention you don't know the criteria of the exam so it could be terribly biased.

[QUOTE=Cheesemonkey;18338878]It's like a sixty year old speech of course an exam modeled for modern language is going to mark it poorly. Not to mention you don't know the criteria of the exam so it could be terribly biased.[/QUOTE] The English language has not changed [b]significantly[/b] since then. If I did an english essay in the writing-style of the early twentieth century I doubt it would even be noticed unless you were actually concentrating on determining what period it was from.

:siren:[B]THIS JUST IN![/B]:siren: Churchill responds. [img]http://jeremayakovka.typepad.com/jeremayakovka/images/winston_churchill_victory_1.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=Cheesemonkey;18338878]It's three examples over 50 years old, of course an exam modeled for modern language is going to mark it poorly. Not to mention you don't know the criteria of the exam so it could be terribly biased.[/QUOTE] If you noticed our language hasn't changed terribly much. In the eyes of a person of today, it's still a really influential piece.

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;18338930]The English language has not changed [b]significantly[/b] since then. If I did an english essay in the writing-style of the early twentieth century I doubt it would even be noticed unless you were actually concentrating on determining what period it was from.[/QUOTE] A computer has strict criteria to follow. Humans just read, we're not gonna notice it.

GCSE english exam success criteria is a heap of bollocks anyway. You could write the most moving, dramatic, eloquent piece of fiction ever created, with the best plot and brilliant ideas, but if you don't vary your sentence length and use high level metaphors and punctuation, you get marked down.

I hated it when we used a stupid website to grade our writing last year. It just gave random people random grades.

[QUOTE=Negrul1;18339012]GCSE english exam success criteria is a heap of bollocks anyway. You could write the most moving, dramatic, eloquent piece of fiction ever created, with the best plot and brilliant ideas, but if you don't vary your sentence length and use high level metaphors and punctuation, you get marked down.[/QUOTE] Why I failed. I wrote some genuis shit in my opinion but the examiner obviously didn't see my dry humour and sarcasm in it (it was about climate change).

[QUOTE=MachiniOs;18339164]Why I failed. I wrote some genuis shit in my opinion but the examiner obviously didn't see my dry humour and sarcasm in it (it was about climate change).[/QUOTE] That or they where a hippy