Men's Rights versus Feminism explained using magnets - General

[video=youtube;PF_WLlMWk6U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF_WLlMWk6U[/video] There are alot of benefits to being perceived as the weak victim. That's an interesting thought.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;43658489]There are alot of benefits to being perceived as the weak victim[/QUOTE] yeh it's also horribly insulting and massively out weighed by the negatives

Its best we kinda just left this stuff on YouTube or Mass Debate

Clearly she's been brainwashed by the Reddit MRA activists! There's only one reasonable thing we can do and that's find out where they live and go over to their houses and beat them up like manly men because no women can defend themselves!

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;43658489]There are alot of benefits to being perceived as the weak victim. That's an interesting thought.[/QUOTE] Uh, I guess if you want to get away with domestic abuse... but surely it's still worse to be perceived as weak, to the point you're not given responsibility for your own actions? I'm pretty sure that's what the video was even on about - if casting of women as victims is overdone it ends up worse for both sides.

lol

if you try to explain anything other than magnetism with magnets you're not really explaining anything ok [editline]24th January 2014[/editline] the whole video also hinges on the assumption that men cannot and will never be seen as the victim in any situation, which is completely wrong

I was honestly expecting the video to be something like this: [video=youtube;rdH1ZEbnIms]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdH1ZEbnIms[/video]

This is wrong though because how many times have you heard "She wanted it" or "She dressed like that because...." A lot of patriarchy functions by being "seduced by an object" We also frame men as objects in this regard "He had no choice because..." "He was just drunk..." We attempt to downplay that men are also actors by turning them into objects within a particular scene. The actor instead becomes culture, alcohol, etc Also, not all feminists see women as victims, the fuck? Judith Butler, Wendy Brown, bell hooks are a couple fo core feminist scholars who do NOT make these arguements and actually make the COUNTER Arguement. In fact, Wendy Brown wrote a whole fucking book about framing women as anyting but victims and its called 'States of Injury' MRA is only bad if its thought of as COUNTER to feminism. If you think feminism has a blindspot in dealing with masculinity (a fair criticism) and you think MRA is a focus area on that, then I guess go ahead and identify as MRA? My encounter with MRA is that it has largely been a reactionary movement premised on a fantasy that 'actually, men are the victims' but once again, I could be wrong. I personally see no need to identify myself as MRA and find myself find identifying as a feminist because (shocker) I think that on the whole if you are a woman in the modern West that you are destined for a lot more shitty stuff headed your way.

[QUOTE=Flameon;43659415] We also frame men as objects in this regard "He had no choice because..." "He was just drunk..." We attempt to downplay that men are also actors by turning them into objects within a particular scene.[/QUOTE] [video=youtube;LlFAd4YdQks]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlFAd4YdQks[/video]

Why can't we all be bffs now, ok?

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;43662358][video=youtube;LlFAd4YdQks]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlFAd4YdQks[/video][/QUOTE] what's your point?

I hate it when people use physical laws as analogs to social situations. Society does not conform to strict laws like physics does.

I think this is a case where peoples preconceptions can really cloud their judgement in an issue. Just because these Reddit MRAs exist and we have this whole extremist feminist versus extremist MRA thing going on doesn't mean we shouldn't ever be allowed to discuss things like this. When we talk about women being abused we're often talking about cases of rape/date rape where the frequency of rape actually occurring is much, much higher than examples where the woman is apparently lying about being raped. However, When it comes to domestic abuse it seems the cases of it being woman>man rather than man>woman are much higher. People say that men are stronger than women and that therefore it doesn't count, but strength varies from individual to individual and there are a lot of women who are stronger than a lot of men. Also you could argue that the most debilitating effect of domestic abuse is the emotional damage caused, rather than the physical, which makes it irrelevant who is hitting who.

wow i wonder if this thread will start a shitstorm oh and while men 'successfully' kill themselves 5 times more, women attempt to commit suicide more often, often twice as much sounds like a victim to me

[QUOTE=Viper_;43663645]wow i wonder if this thread will start a shitstorm oh and while men 'successfully' kill themselves 5 times more, women attempt to commit suicide more often, often twice as much sounds like a victim to me[/QUOTE] Mainly because women tend to use inferior methods, due to a number of cultural issues.

[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;43667398]Mainly because women tend to use inferior methods, due to a number of cultural issues.[/QUOTE] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d25Op_poi0Y[/media] I'm so sorry.

[QUOTE=Kyle902;43662651]I hate it when people use physical laws as analogs to social situations. Society does not conform to strict laws like physics does.[/QUOTE] The only time she appealed to physical laws was in showing that perceiving someone as strong, and perceiving someone as a victim at the same time is psychologically hard to do.

Oh wow so you're telling me that feminism is just about saying men don't have problems? A philosophy concerning gender and gender relations completely neglects how the current gender system affects men? What an enlightening overview of feminism. This strawman attack on feminism has really changed my mind, especially poignant because it is portrayed by magnets. I'm gonna go be an MRA now! What is the goal of saying that feminism as a monolith is not applicable because men face issues too? Is the point to say that society's equal now so we shouldn't attempt feminism to better women's place in society? If you're fighting theories that contend there is a patriarchy, then what is your alternative theory on the structure of gender relations? The concept of patriarchy does indeed include gender problems faced by men, so that's not a reasonable critique either.

Ah, I see a fellow adherent to the Insane Clown Posse model of gender dynamics.

[QUOTE=dingdongpuddi;43672679]Oh wow so you're telling me that feminism is just about saying men don't have problems? A philosophy concerning gender and gender relations completely neglects how the current gender system affects men? What an enlightening overview of feminism. This strawman attack on feminism has really changed my mind, especially poignant because it is portrayed by magnets. I'm gonna go be an MRA now! What is the goal of saying that feminism as a monolith is not applicable because men face issues too? Is the point to say that society's equal now so we shouldn't attempt feminism to better women's place in society? If you're fighting theories that contend there is a patriarchy, then what is your alternative theory on the structure of gender relations? The concept of patriarchy does indeed include gender problems faced by men, so that's not a reasonable critique either.[/QUOTE] I think the point is that calling it feminism and reinforcing the idea that men are strong and women are weak is bad on both sides, and that in a way, whether you see it or not, the term feminism does reinforce that. There is this nice word called egalitarianism, and it involves a gender neutral approach. I mean we might as well call the movement for racial tolerance the "Black movement". We are past that and doing so only reinforces the idea that the blacks are somehow the sole subject of discrimination. Ideally we would like to just call it racial equality, not Ebonics.

6'5', 220 pounds, and I can shimmy up eight branch bare feet of an oak tree like it was nothing (at least could, don't know what the fuck is up with my left arm this weekend) but previous experience has left me terrified of being alone in a room with a female peer, and reliant on drugs to cope with...everything really. I'm not sure where in the middle I was going to throw my support, but I'm googlydlyfig headed now.

"Friends Vs More than Friends" [video]http://hyperwicked.com/video-friends-vs-more-than-friends/[/video] [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("spambot" - MaxOfS2D))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;43674643]I think the point is that calling it feminism and reinforcing the idea that men are strong and women are weak is bad on both sides, and that in a way, whether you see it or not, the term feminism does reinforce that. There is this nice word called egalitarianism, and it involves a gender neutral approach. I mean we might as well call the movement for racial tolerance the "Black movement". We are past that and doing so only reinforces the idea that the blacks are somehow the sole subject of discrimination. Ideally we would like to just call it racial equality, not Ebonics.[/QUOTE] It only reinforces that "men are strong, women are victims" because people don't actually understand feminism. People like MRAs keep putting out the image that feminism is just about portraying women as victims. Once you've popularized that view of feminism, yes that's what people associate with feminism unfortunately. MRAs and other reactionaries put out this rhetoric and strawman, then they attack the strawman they created. It's pretty stupid.