• Sensationalist as fuck unofficial Ron Paul commercial.
    116 replies, posted
[video=youtube;pDJMG5N6b_4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDJMG5N6b_4[/video] Let me count the things wrong with this video: #1: Not really an accurate analogy. Not all Iraqis were against the invasion, Kurds supported US troops. That's like saying California would support Chinese troops who invaded because they were already fighting an armed insurgency against the US government for an independent state. #2: Obama eventually did withdraw from Iraq. The video makes it seem like we haven't #3: It generalizes the presence of ALL american troops on foreign soil. Sure the US isn't exactly welcome in Iraq or Afghanistan. However our presence in Germany and South Korea is generally accepted, apart from some local problems. #4: It basically overworks the analogy.
Red scare still works on Texans? Interesting..
Is that the fucking Inception soundtrack? Like, seriously?
they might as well play [video=youtube;NXnytBRDh-4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXnytBRDh-4[/video] with all that "revolution" bullshit they're selling
Wow, the big Red Scare still works on Texans? Jesus christ.
[QUOTE=cyclocius;34381640]Wow, the big Red Scare still works on Texans? Jesus christ.[/QUOTE] It's not out to cast the "reds" as the bad guys, it's trying to denounce our foreign military presence by switching the perspectives. As for the OP, this isn't new, it isn't news, and it's not newsworthy. It's a movie made by a Ron Paul fan based on a speech made by Ron Paul a good while back. Calling it a 'commercial' is completely incorrect, and trying to debase a politician for promoting peace and diplomacy is pretty fucked up.
[QUOTE=cyclocius;34381640]Wow, the big Red Scare still works on Texans? Jesus christ.[/QUOTE] They should have chosen Australia instead. :v:
[QUOTE=Sector 7;34381677]It's not out to cast the "reds" as the bad guys, it's trying to denounce our foreign military presence by switching the perspectives.[/QUOTE] still, the analogy is fail as fuck. [editline]24th January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=SPESSMEHREN;34381693]They should have chosen Australia instead. :v:[/QUOTE] picking on allies = fail
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;34381507] #2: Obama eventually did withdraw from Iraq. The video makes it seem like we haven't [/QUOTE] We are still in Afghanistan. [editline]25th January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=trotskygrad;34381699]still, the analogy is fail as fuck. [/QUOTE] No it's not. It doesn't have to be 100% analogous as long as it gets the point across.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;34381740]We are still in Afghanistan.[/QUOTE] your point? Afghanistan was the US's "good war", we went there mainly to hunt terrorists, congress fucked it up and turned it into "nation building" should have stayed a SOF war, that's always been my opinion. We wouldn't have checkpoints and all that crap, most normal citizens wouldn't be very affected.
I may get boxes for this, but I really, really believe that this video said something that needed to be said almost a decade ago. So many Americans don't think of Iraqis as people. To them, for all they know every last man, woman and child in Iraq is somehow a terrorist, or sympathizes with Islamic extremism, or (my favorite) Hates America's freedom. This video puts it in perspective, and it needs to be seen. I find myself with new respect for Ron Paul.
Was I the only one who found the [B]TEXAS[/B] Texas [I]texas[/I] part funny?
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;34381763]your point? Afghanistan was the US's "good war", we went there mainly to hunt terrorists, congress fucked it up and turned it into "nation building" should have stayed a SOF war, that's always been my opinion. We wouldn't have checkpoints and all that crap, most normal citizens wouldn't be very affected.[/QUOTE] That's completely missing the point. The point is that we shouldn't be in Afghanistan whether it was a "good war" at the time or not. It is also Obama's fault considering he pushes more soldiers into Afghanistan.
Many people go through their entire lives without traveling past the borders of their own country. Some people never even leave their state or province. And a good number of those people have bought the propaganda because they don't know better.
[QUOTE=Sector 7;34381677]It's not out to cast the "reds" as the bad guys, it's trying to denounce our foreign military presence by switching the perspectives.[/QUOTE] Yeah, but they used China because it would have the biggest emotional impact. If they used Germany, UK, India, Korea, Russia, it just wouldn't have the same impact. Partially because they're less plausible and partially because it's China.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;34381740]No it's not. It doesn't have to be 100% analogous as long as it gets the point across.[/QUOTE] Thing is when you consider that its point and delivery are extremely sensationalist and demagogue-ish... that's when things start to get absurd.
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;34381763]your point? Afghanistan was the US's "good war", we went there mainly to hunt terrorists, congress fucked it up and turned it into "nation building" should have stayed a SOF war, that's always been my opinion. We wouldn't have checkpoints and all that crap, most normal citizens wouldn't be very affected.[/QUOTE] So we've got one illegal war in Iraq, nation building in Afghanistan, illegal, sovereignty-violating drone strikes in Pakistan, we're supporting the special forces of Israel as they conduct assassinations, and we're preparing to go to war with Iran because we don't think they have a right to nuclear technology, but Ron Paul is a nut because Obama pulled out of Iraq. (After finishing the job George Bush didn't get to finish, by initiating massive troop surges and going completely against his campaign promises.)
[QUOTE=yawmwen;34381794]That's completely missing the point. The point is that we shouldn't be in Afghanistan whether it was a "good war" at the time or not. It is also Obama's fault considering he pushes more soldiers into Afghanistan.[/QUOTE] The problem is that Bush and Congress shifted the priority of the mission to nation building. Obama promised to get us out of Iraq and he did. The video twists that to seem otherwise. [editline]24th January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Sector 7;34381815]So we've got one illegal war in Iraq, nation building in Afghanistan, illegal, sovereignty-violating drone strikes in Pakistan, we're supporting the special forces of Israel as they conduct assassinations, and we're preparing to go to war with Iran because we don't think they have a right to nuclear technology, but Ron Paul is a nut because Obama pulled out of Iraq.[/QUOTE] we were nation-building in Iraq too? We shouldn't have gotten involved in Iraq in the first place, again things the Obama administration didn't control. Ron Paul isn't necessarily a nut, I'm just saying that he's very very crafty in the way he twists his words in this video.
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;34381822]The problem is that Bush and Congress shifted the priority of the mission to nation building. Obama promised to get us out of Iraq and he did. The video twists that to seem otherwise.[/QUOTE] Obama didn't "get us out of Iraq". Bush got us out of Iraq technically. And it doesn't matter if Bush shifted the priority or not, Obama is agreeing with Bush's shift in priority.
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;34381822]The problem is that Bush and Congress shifted the priority of the mission to nation building. Obama promised to get us out of Iraq and he did. The video twists that to seem otherwise.[/QUOTE] The video does make Obama look bad, yes. But having a Republican presidential candidate talk sense in terms of perspective was something I never expected. I want to see what effect this campaign move has on the views of Republican voters. If they listen, and think, it could be an awakening.
Ron Paul fails to understand the fragile state of world diplomatic relations. We tried removing all of our troops once. Something called World War 2 happened.
[QUOTE=Sector 7;34381677] As for the OP, this isn't [b]new[/b], it isn't [b]new[/b]s, and it's not [b]new[/b]sworthy. It's a movie made by a Ron Paul fan based on a speech made by Ron Paul a good while back. Calling it a 'commercial' is completely incorrect, and trying to debase a politician for promoting peace and diplomacy is pretty fucked up.[/QUOTE] perfectly aware that it isn't new, however I thought this video was particularly good because it cast his careful attacks which aren't quite true into sharp focus should have posted in mass debate or something.
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;34381822]Ron Paul isn't necessarily a nut, I'm just saying that he's very very crafty in the way he twists his words in this video.[/QUOTE] Why, by pointing out that invading a country, and occupying it and maintaining martial law for the better part of a decade and against the wishes of the world at large is a terrible thing? Is that "craftier" then promising people you will end the war, then increasing the size and scope of the war after getting elected based on those promises? [QUOTE=Mudbone;34381862]Ron Paul fails to understand the fragile state of world diplomatic relations. We tried removing all of our troops once. Something called World War 2 happened.[/QUOTE] You have absolutely [i]no idea[/i] what you're talking about. WW2 was caused mainly by the ridiculous sanctions and reparations required of Germany after WW1, outlined in the Treaty of Versailles - a treaty which the US [b]strongly[/b] opposed.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;34381850]Obama didn't "get us out of Iraq". Bush got us out of Iraq technically. And it doesn't matter if Bush shifted the priority or not, Obama is agreeing with Bush's shift in priority.[/QUOTE] you can't really unagree and shift back to a SOF war. Bush got us out of Iraq? what? For all I know, his Republican successor, John McCain said we were going to say in Iraq "for as long as it takes"
[QUOTE=Mudbone;34381862]Ron Paul fails to understand the fragile state of world diplomatic relations. We tried removing all of our troops once. Something called World War 2 happened.[/QUOTE] um that had nothing to do with it actually...
[QUOTE=Mudbone;34381862]Ron Paul fails to understand the fragile state of world diplomatic relations. We tried removing all of our troops once. Something called World War 2 happened.[/QUOTE] Are you really [i]that[/i] inept at history, and using it as a justification for imperialism? World War 2 had absolutely [B]nothing[/B] to do with us removing "all our troops at once"(especially considering we didn't have that many troops outside of the US anyways).
[QUOTE=yawmwen;34381850]Obama didn't "get us out of Iraq". Bush got us out of Iraq technically. And it doesn't matter if Bush shifted the priority or not, Obama is agreeing with Bush's shift in priority.[/QUOTE] Iraq was such a colossal fuck-up that all parties involved wanted out as quickly as politically viable. Obama seized the first opening to start withdrawing troops. Since there's still some international support for Afghanistan, the US is keeping a military presence there. Because if they pull out now, the Taliban will step in almost instantly to fill the gap. They'll depose and kill Karzai, and then begin an ideological 'cleansing' in the name of Allah. And because other NATO countries are still invested in the war, it'll look very, very bad for the USA to back out of the war it started before everyone else has as well. It's not as simple as "Hey, let's just leave and come home." The US's reputation and foreign diplomatic relations are at stake.
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;34381893]you can't really unagree and shift back to a SOF war.[/quote] Especially if you don't have any interest in getting us off foreign soil(unless it might get you re-elected). [quote]Bush got us out of Iraq? what? For all I know, his Republican successor, John McCain said we were going to say in Iraq "for as long as it takes"[/QUOTE] Obama just followed Bush's timelines. Also, McCain wasn't Bush's successor, Obama was, so it is really irrelevant.
[QUOTE=archangel125;34381781]I may get boxes for this, but I really, really believe that this video said something that needed to be said almost a decade ago. So many Americans don't think of Iraqis as people. To them, for all they know every last man, woman and child in Iraq is somehow a terrorist, or sympathizes with Islamic extremism, or (my favorite) Hates America's freedom. This video puts it in perspective, and it needs to be seen. I find myself with new respect for Ron Paul.[/QUOTE] Where are all these Americans everyone claims to know? I've never heard anyone, ever, imply Iraqi innocent women and children were terrorists. What you said makes the claim that only males above the age of 18 participate in conflicts in Arabia, which is if course ridiculous, but that's beside the point. The video explicitly points out, by the way, that the majority of Americans want out of the war, which also goes against what you're saying. To summarize, 'the fuck?
I don't get how it is that a man who openly loathes our troops as much as he does gets so many donations from them. (Just for the record: I rated the OP agree because I agree with the poster's points, not the video)
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