[quote][URL="http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/282469-mcconnell-viewing-election-as-lesser-of-two-evils-is-honest"]Sen. Mitch McConnell[/URL] and [URL="http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-weinstein-humphrey-nixon-election-20161021-snap-story.html"]many political pundits[/URL] claim that voters will have to choose a “lesser of two evils” in this election. That cliché is based on how high Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump’s unfavorable ratings are compared to previous candidates. But favorable ratings don’t always tell us everything, and there are strong signs that voters don’t consider Clinton to be less tolerable than past candidates. (Trump on the other hand….)
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Right now, 56 percent of Clinton voters say they are mainly [I]for[/I] her compared to just 42 percent of the same voters who say they are voting [I]against[/I] Trump. This 56 percent is the highest it’s been all year in the ABC News poll, and it’s been steadily climbing for Clinton since July. In the same survey, only 41 percent of Trump supporters say they are voting [I]for[/I] him, while 54 percent say they are mostly voting [I]against[/I] Clinton. Those numbers are about the same as they’ve been all year.
That 56 percent of Clinton’s voters are affirmatively supporting her may not seem like a lot, but it’s about average for a presidential candidate. That’s clear from the chart below, which plots the final live-interview poll to ask this type of question in every election since 1980.
[IMG]https://i0.wp.com/espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/enten-affirmativeclinton-1-1.gif?strip=all&w=575&ssl=1[/IMG]
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The most interesting thing about these numbers is how few of Trump’s supporters are his fans. No candidate since 1980 has had a lower percentage of voters say they plan to cast a vote [I]for[/I] their candidate. That includes candidates whose campaigns were viewed as disastrous, including Jimmy Carter in 1980, Michael Dukakis in 1988 and Bob Dole in 1996. (The Republican party [URL="http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-bottom-could-fall-out-for-trump/"]basically gave up on[/URL] Dole in the final month of the 1996 election.)
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[URL="http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/clinton-voters-arent-just-voting-against-trump/?ex_cid=2016-forecast"]538 article[/URL].
That may be true, but it is down from the last election on both accords
Also, 56% is around average, more and more reason to fix this so we can get 3rd parties in
[QUOTE=Intoxicated Spy;51259575]That may be true, but it is down from the last election on both accords[/QUOTE]
That is mainly due to Obama performing hugely well. Hillary is like Bill and Al Gore on average in-party support. Unlike John Kerry, Walter Mondale and Lloyd Bentsen who bombed hard because they depended fully on being against Reagan and Bush Senior, while not being encouraging with their policies even within their own party voters.
I'd probably answer "against Trump" but I do genuinely agree with more of Clinton's policies than Trump, Stein, or Johnson.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51259611]I'd probably answer "against Trump" but I do genuinely agree with more of Clinton's policies than Trump, Stein, or Johnson.[/QUOTE]
Does Trump even have policies?
I actually support Hillary, not just because she isn't Trump, is that really such a foreign concept?
If people can legitimately support Trump I don't know why legitimate Hillary support is so hard to believe...
[QUOTE=CroGamer002;51259609]That is mainly due to Obama performing hugely well. Hillary is like Bill and Al Gore on average in-party support. Unlike John Kerry, Walter Mondale and Lloyd Bentsen who bombed hard because they depended fully on being against Reagan and Bush Senior, while not being encouraging with their policies even within their own party voters.[/QUOTE]
It's an important point to make when one can be under the impression that, due to the bubble they live in, Clinton would seem universally hated when in reality the Democrat establishment and most Democrats generally approve of her. It's not a fluke that prior to Benghazi and the email scandal she had quite a high approval rating.
If someone asked me "If Hilary wasn't the Democratic nominee, would you vote for Trump?" my answer would honestly be "No matter who is running against him, I'm not voting for Trump end of story".
Does that mean I'm voting against him? Or is that just a simple statement of fact, that it's not that I'm against him, it's that I'd never be FOR him?
I'm surprised at how high the "For Hillary" bar is. I assumed the lack of Hillary yard signs and small HRC communities was because most people are just voting for her because she isn't Trump.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;51259692]I'm surprised at how high the "For Hillary" bar is. I assumed the lack of Hillary yard signs and small HRC communities was because most people are just voting for her because she isn't Trump.[/QUOTE]
i think it is funny i see more bernie signs still up than i do clinton and trump signs combined, although i am also surrounded by college students
Not really surprising, for quite a long time she's been one of the most popular politicians. The republicans and stuff just love putting out so much hate pretty much every since she was a senator, so you might think that she's more unpopular than she actually is. Especially because they probably knew that 2008 wasn't the last time she'd be running for president.
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;51259720]i think it is funny i see more bernie signs still up than i do clinton and trump signs combined, although i am also surrounded by college students[/QUOTE]
I've seen countless Trump signs, a few Bernie signs, and I think one Hillary sign.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;51259692]I'm surprised at how high the "For Hillary" bar is. I assumed the lack of Hillary yard signs and small HRC communities was because most people are just voting for her because she isn't Trump.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;51259720]i think it is funny i see more bernie signs still up than i do clinton and trump signs combined, although i am also surrounded by college students[/QUOTE]
Yeah it depends a lot on where you live even at a local level. Clinton is currently leading in Florida but I have seen a total of two bumper stickers and zero signs for her campaign where as I've seen about a half-dozen "Clinton for Prison" stickers and tons of Trump/Pence signs.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;51259692]I'm surprised at how high the "For Hillary" bar is. I assumed the lack of Hillary yard signs and small HRC communities was because most people are just voting for her because she isn't Trump.[/QUOTE]
silent majority
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51259611]I'd probably answer "against Trump" but I do genuinely agree with more of Clinton's policies than Trump, Stein, or Johnson.[/QUOTE]
I don't think that's all that surprising, most of the distaste for Clinton isn't with what she says she'll do, it's a combination of general lack of trust that she'll do what she says she will and concern about her shadier dealings aside from that. She just does not appear to be a genuine person in any sense at all, and has even attacked people who support her just for bringing up her inconsistencies in a forgiving light. If I was voting in this election it'd be for Clinton, but it'd be a pretty begrudgingly given vote.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;51259754]I've seen countless Trump signs, a few Bernie signs, and I think one Hillary sign.[/QUOTE]
I've seen a bunch of Trump signs, a Gary Johnson sign, and a few signs for local positions. But then again, nobody puts up signs in the city, where most of the liberals live, so that's not a good measure.
I've seen about a dozen Trump bumper stickers (counting "Hillary for Prison 2016" ones), a half-dozen Bernie stickers, a Jill Stein sticker, two Hillary [I]2008[/I] stickers, and one Hillary 2016 sticker. And a bunch of old Obama stickers. And one Bush 2000 sticker. And a 1980 Reagan sticker. And a "Republicans for Voldemort" bumper sticker, which I'm not entirely sure was a joke.
I have no idea what to make of this data.
[QUOTE=gman003-main;51259915]I've seen a bunch of Trump signs, a Gary Johnson sign, and a few signs for local positions. But then again, nobody puts up signs in the city, where most of the liberals live, so that's not a good measure.
I've seen about a dozen Trump bumper stickers (counting "Hillary for Prison 2016" ones), a half-dozen Bernie stickers, a Jill Stein sticker, two Hillary [I]2008[/I] stickers, and one Hillary 2016 sticker. And a bunch of old Obama stickers. And one Bush 2000 sticker. And a 1980 Reagan sticker. And a "Republicans for Voldemort" bumper sticker, which I'm not entirely sure was a joke.
I have no idea what to make of this data.[/QUOTE]
It is quite obvious to me.
People want Voldemort as president, i.e. Dick Cheney, with George Bush as his VP!
Tomorrow has the potential to make up for how fucked up this year has been, Here's to hoping that Hillary's birthday is a lot of fun.
This graph is interesting if just for how it shows Obama had (and still arguably does) such an appeal as a person rather than as just the head of the party.
I wonder if he'll become the Regan of the Democrats due to that.
[QUOTE=CroGamer002;51259627]Does Trump even have policies?[/QUOTE]
Obviously he does, a quick Google search can show that
[QUOTE=SirJon;51260301]Obviously he does, a quick Google search can show that[/QUOTE]
They're shit though. Most of them are detrimental to our country, our people, and/or our future.
I find it kind of coincidental that Hilary's only opponent is probably one of the only poople who can make her look better by comparison
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;51260358]I find it kind of coincidental that Hilary's only opponent is probably one of the only poople who can make her look better by comparison[/QUOTE]
Pretty sure clinton's organization trying to get trump nominated to make it easier for her to win was part of the leaks
[QUOTE=Socram;51259645]I actually support Hillary, not just because she isn't Trump, is that really such a foreign concept?
If people can legitimately support Trump I don't know why legitimate Hillary support is so hard to believe...[/QUOTE]
something something crooked liar.
im not a huge clinton fan, but i do think if she tries to shirk out of the progressive promises that she made, the left will not be kind to her, especially if she gets a dem house and senate. ironically her best shot at being the centerist she is is by having a red house and blue senate
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;51260358]I find it kind of coincidental that Hilary's only opponent is probably one of the only poople who can make her look better by comparison[/QUOTE]
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_presidential_primaries,_2016[/url]
Out of all the people who ran in the primaries, John Kasich would've been the only two people able to stand against Clinton. He has some pretty shitty views regarding women but compared to the other nutcases that ran in the primaries, he's the best.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51260412][url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_presidential_primaries,_2016[/url]
Out of all the people who ran in the primaries, John Kasich would've been the only two people able to stand against Clinton. He has some pretty shitty views regarding women but compared to the other nutcases that ran in the primaries, he's the best.[/QUOTE]
as an ohioan it is my duty to firmly remind people kasich isnt that appealing here, its just our previous governor was really bad and the recession hit very hard. republicans like him locally but hes honestly too weak to have gone up against clinton
I don't support hillary personally, but I support a good bit of her policy, and the democratic way of thinking. (even though it is moving more and more centrist/right wing in many ways, which I don't agree with)
I'm voting for Hillary to vote against Putin.
[QUOTE=Sam Za Nemesis;51260824]That's the weirdest reasoning for a vote I've heard this cycle[/QUOTE]
wierdest reason ive heard this election is voting for trump because of his personality
Here in Wisconsin, there are both Trump and Hilary signs and posters and everyone is co-existing peacefully which is nice. (Except for that peanut butter incident)
Raidyr, I wanted to take this opportunity to share this link with you. Last time emails were brought up I was unprepared. If you want specific emails evidencing media collusion go to ([url]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DgwLHAC5mk9Ghblc6O7AXzxX5dNLlMg0hHUn-D_Ay7I/edit#gid=0[/url]), and scroll past Bernie, Clinton, CTR, Trump, and Foreign policy. It starts at row 108 and I think it is a pretty good resource for anyone interested in learning more about the specific emails and their significance.
Edit: Before anyone asks, no I am not voting for Trump.
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