Homeopathy doesn't do shit, why do doctors prescribe it? - General

[quote=Wikipedia][b]Homeopathy[/b] is a form of alternative medicine in which practitioners treat patients using highly diluted preparations that are believed to cause healthy people to exhibit symptoms that are similar to those exhibited by the patient. The list of ingredients seen on remedies may confuse consumers into believing that the product actually contains those ingredients. According to normal homeopathic practice, remedies are prepared starting with active ingredients that are often serially diluted to the point where [b]the finished product no longer contains any biologically "active ingredients" [/b]as that term is normally defined. The list of ingredients normally refers to the ingredients originally used in their preparation.[/quote] [quote=Wikipedia][b]Herbalism[/b] is a traditional medicinal or folk medicine practice based on the use of plants and plant extracts. A number of herbs are thought to be likely to cause adverse effects. Furthermore, "adulteration, inappropriate formulation, or lack of understanding of plant and drug interactions have led to adverse reactions that are sometimes life threatening or lethal." Proper double-blind clinical trials are needed to determine the safety and efficacy of each plant before they can be recommended for medical use. Although many consumers believe that herbal medicines are safe because they are "natural", herbal medicines and synthetic drugs may interact, causing toxicity to the patient. Herbal remedies can also be dangerously contaminated, and herbal medicines without established efficacy, may unknowingly be used to replace medicines that do have corroborated efficacy. Chemical compounds in plants mediate their effects on the human body by binding to receptor molecules present in the body; such processes are identical to those already well understood for conventional drugs and as such[b] herbal medicines do not differ greatly from conventional drugs in terms of how they work.[/b] [i][b]Note:[/b] be well aware of the fundamental difference between homeopathy and herbal medicines, the first is [u]water[/u], the latter contains actual working substances in effective concentrations[/i] This enables herbal medicines to be in principle just as effective as conventional medicines but also gives them the same potential to cause harmful side effects. Many of the herbs and spices used by humans to season food yield useful medicinal compounds. [/quote] You have some that do it when they find that their patient has nothing so they use it as a placebo to shush them (and then I guess the price of the "medicine" is part of that effect), that still doesn't justify the existence of all the companies though. Some medicines are actually really expensive. Why are these homeopathic companies not labelled as a scam? All they do is sell expensive water... Doctors need a license to be able to do their job, but why aren't these licences revoked when the encompassing institution, that hands these licenses out, notices that these doctors exhibit a form of complete non-understanding of basic physics or pharmacology? Why are they allowed to call themselves a doctor? That's like an alchemist stating he can do chemistry, and the mind-boggling thing is that this alchemist has majored in fucking chemistry, he studied a reasonable amount of physics, shitloads of chemistry and then he resorts back to gathering feathers of black roosters during full moon and grinding up lizards' testicles. I understand that there are "average" people (uninformed about this thing called science) who believe this bullshit, as there are people who believe astrology, horoscopes, hell even ghosts and all the other crap. But DOCTORS, they spent at least 7 years of their life studying science. They learnt scientific methods to correlate inputs and effect, they know the chemistry behind tons of processes in the human body and how to influence them with medicines. Yet they acknowledge at the same time that a water/isotonic solution with -if you're lucky- one part per 10^60 (the number of atoms on earth is about 10^50, so the number of particles on earth is even less) of the TOXIC SUBSTANCE will actually work. Not one reasonable explanation is to be found as to why this would work. Experiments with antibodies by Benveniste showed that certain antibodies reacted in a strong dilution as if the working substance was still there. These experiments have been tested and none of the results could be reproduced. The outcome of his experiments where probably due to the observer-expectancy effect and just, bad experimenting. It's a waste of money, resources, time and most of all it's all one big lie. [i]My grandma has paid €500 for a homeopathic injection by a "doctor" (I actually have to remove the apostrophes because he studied medicine)[/i] Also herb medicines are [u]partially[/u] bullshit, too, with the difference that these actually CAN have a positive (or negative) effect. Everyone thinks that just "because it's natural", it can only do you good. Well fucktards, go chew on some all natural [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digitalis]Digitalis[/url] and do the world a favor. This trend is also seen in "smartdrugs". Drugs based on god-knows-what, or sometimes natural plants, so "it's not harmful". Herbal medicines can help, in a limited way. Often though people think it can cure anything, and the companies are often not very clear about what's in it, and how effective they are (the effectiveness often gets overestimated). So yeah my biggest question is, why isn't there more criticism on doctors that prescribe homeopathy (and an outrageous amount do), and why does the licensing institution condone or at least tolerate this pseudoscience?

My dads girlfriend is a "professional" homoeopath. All the stuff she says is utter bullshit, saying things like "I can diagnoses illnesses by looking into your eyes" and "This herbs will cure *insert illness here*"

[img]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2383/2402001517_1fd26f64ae.jpg[/img]

if stuff really does get stronger from diluting it, surely the illegal drugs industry would have cottoned on to that to save money

I hate essentially all herbal and homoeopathic medicines. They are leftovers from the middle ages and should have been left there. If I was in charge every single herbal and homoeopathic establishment would be shut down and converted into a real medical establishment.

A lot of them are quackish - but some work. E.G. one of the homeopathic remedies for hayfever. I can't remember the name, but it uses onion essence. (Or something like that, whatever makes your eyes water from onions.) Someone the hayfever and the onion cancel each other out. (I would assume that they cause watery eyes for opposite reasons.)

Either it works because of: -placebo effect -some effective substance in effective concentrations, but then it's not homeopathy anymore. -the symptom is thirst or dehydration, in which water proves to be a great remedy (durr) Water memory is proven to last only 50 millionths of a nanosecond, not anywhere near what would be needed to possibly have an effect.

[QUOTE=SataniX;30719704]A lot of them are quackish - but some work.[/QUOTE] You are a great comedian.

A lot of homeopathic medicine is just using rudimentary forms of actual medicines (the bark of a willow tree instead of aspirin, for example).

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;30719248]I hate essentially all herbal and homoeopathic medicines. They are leftovers from the middle ages and should have been left there. If I was in charge every single herbal and homoeopathic establishment would be shut down and converted into a real medical establishment.[/QUOTE] The fact that you think herbal and homeopathic medicines are the same thing disqualifies you from commenting on them whatsoever [h2]EVERYONE READ THIS:[/h2] Herbal medicine: Medicines that use herbs/plants/natural stuff. Often works as well as synthetic drugs, or better. Can react dangerously with other medication. It's the real deal. Homeopathic remedies: Water. Homeopaths believe that the more you dilute a substance, the more potent it becomes because water has a "memory". A drop of medicine in the ocean followed by drinking a glass of water from the ocean will give you more actual medicine than homeopathic remedies will.

[QUOTE=Ray-The-Sun;30720585]A lot of homeopathic medicine is just using rudimentary forms of actual medicines (the bark of a willow tree instead of aspirin, for example).[/QUOTE] There is no bark of a willow tree in the 'medicine' post dilution, fyi.

It's bullshit but idiots dumb enough to fall for it deserve to be separated from their money.

They are basically placebos that won't get the doctor sued for not using "real medicine". They are very useful in that regard, which is why the medical profession has been less angry about them than they perhaps ought to have been.

[QUOTE=nikomo;30720753]It's bullshit but idiots dumb enough to fall for it deserve to be separated from their money.[/QUOTE] The problem is that there have been a lot of cases where gullible parents have given homoeopathic "remedies" to their cancer-ridden children instead of getting them on proper chemo/radiotherapy. The children have died due to this.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;30720731]The fact that you think herbal and homeopathic medicines are the same thing disqualifies you from commenting on them whatsoever [h2]EVERYONE READ THIS:[/h2] Herbal medicine: Medicines that use herbs/plants/natural stuff. Often works as well as synthetic drugs, or better. Can react dangerously with other medication. It's the real deal. Homeopathic remedies: Water. Homeopaths believe that the more you dilute a substance, the more potent it becomes because water has a "memory". A drop of medicine in the ocean followed by drinking a glass of water from the ocean will give you more actual medicine that homeopathic remedies will.[/QUOTE] No I meant that both are stupid throwbacks to the middle ages, the only similarity is that idiots think they work when modern science can make much better ones.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;30720819]No I meant that both are stupid throwbacks to the middle ages, the only similarity is that idiots think they work when modern science can make much better ones.[/QUOTE] There are plenty of cases where a herbal medication is better than the synthetic equivalent because of greater potency, less side effects, so forth an example that comes to mind is using ginger to cure nausea, it works faster and is a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a pack of Gravol

Usually, [b]DUMB[/b] doctors try prescribing alternative treatment. It really depends actually on the doctor and what the doctor believes in. Most likely, if you're being prescribed Homeopathy, your usually better off with another doctor.

Hey guys, did you know what a lot of the real medicine you swallow is made from or based on extracts from plants and herbs? Herbal medicine is not bullshit, it's simply just not necessarily as concentrated as the medication you get prescribed. If you go by the idea that herbs do shit then explain to me what the fuck happens when you smoke weed.

hey man, don't diss herbal shit. lots of cures and remedies can come from plants and herbs you can find in the wilderness, some'll kill ya though. blame those stupid homeopathy new age fucks. blame homeopathy for HEADON APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE FOREHEAD HEADON APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE FOREHEAD HEADON APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE FOREHEAD HEADON APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE FOREHEAD HEADON APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE FOREHEAD the sad part is herbs and medicines from the wild can be quite effective but now it's all considered bogus due to - again - homeopathy and new age fucks.

[QUOTE=MaveDustaine;30720892]hey man, don't diss herbal shit. lots of cures and remedies can come from plants and herbs you can find in the wilderness, some'll kill ya though. blame those stupid homeopathy new age fucks.[/QUOTE] If you're in the woods and you cut yourself, find a willow branch, strip the bark off, and rub it around the cut. Does anyone know of more tricks like this?

[QUOTE=Zeke129;30720905]If you're in the woods and you cut yourself, find a willow branch, strip the bark off, and rub it around the cut. Does anyone know of more tricks like this?[/QUOTE] Actually if you can get a concentration of the tree's gum, that's far more potent. It kills the pain, the adhesive properties seal the cut and also accelerate it's healing. I know of many. I am Native. No, I do not drink. :v: I wish I knew the English names of the plants and herbs my mother and grandma told me about. I can identify them by sight instantly yet I don't know their english names. :v: There's a certain tree, and if you take the leaves, chew them, and apply them to a bee sting it significantly soothes the stinging sensation and neutralizes the bee venom. The more you know.

Its a easy placebo effect.

[QUOTE=MaveDustaine;30720954]I am Native.[/QUOTE] Real native or a white guy who says he is because his great grandmother was so he can get a treaty card

I know that these plants are good at taking some pain, but it works only superficially so it's only good for hurting throats and grazed skin. I can't find a sensible English name for them but the Danish name is Kamille. They have a pretty characteristic smell and leaves so they are relatively easy to pick from similar flower plants. [quote][IMG]http://www.denstoredanske.dk/@api/deki/files/14401/=21274759.jpg[/IMG][/quote] And Coldfusion, losing the ability to taste stuff is not something a placebo can really do.

Real native but I look white. In reality my mom is half and half, yet coloured (sorry if that's racist, I just dunno how else to put it :v:) and my dad is fully native and coloured. My mom and grandma taught me a lot about the woods though, and survival.

Alternative medicine is all bologna.

[QUOTE=MaveDustaine;30721041]Real native but I look white. In reality my mom is half and half, yet coloured (sorry if that's racist, I just dunno how else to put it :v:) and my dad is fully native and coloured. My mom and grandma taught me a lot about the woods though, and survival.[/QUOTE] Neat. I'm white as all fuck (Irish and Northern European ancestry) but when I was younger I'd go with my parents to a place called the Friendship Centre (a native arts and crafts place that also had really good food) and I'd bug all of the people in there for stories and stuff

It's not like there isn't alot of bullshit said about the healing power of herbs even if some of it works.

drop herbs into freshwater lake tell people if they drink from it any disease will be cured instant billionaire

[QUOTE=Zeke129;30721067]Neat. I'm white as all fuck (Irish and Northern European ancestry) but when I was younger I'd go with my parents to a place called the Friendship Centre (a native arts and crafts place that also had really good food) and I'd bug all of the people in there for stories and stuff[/QUOTE] Shame most of the oral histories and stories got wiped out by the Residential schools and large-scale assimilation. I still enjoy them when I get an opportunity to hear them though.