ZEITGEIST: Moving Forward - General

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w&feature=[/media]

This movement supports very radical ideas, that [I]will[/I] not appeal to people on a short, or even in a long(er) time-span. I think every country on the planet will not support this idea, because it doesn't make them any money. And we've been living on a money based currency for a [I]very[/I] long time. I do think these ideas are great and innovative, but I wish to see this work in real life, not just in theory. [sp]No I haven't seen the whole movie, but I have read and heard about their ideas. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Zeitgeist_Movement)[/sp]

We've been living in a capitalistic system that puts money over lives and advancement long enough. If humanity wants to continue to evolve we MUST change our system.

just be careful with this.

[QUOTE=wheresmyfish;27709927]just be careful with this.[/QUOTE] I am almost certain this will come to violence before anyone wants to change anything, the people with the power will not give it up freely. But when I think of the alternative to acting in violence, it both scares and sickens me how close we have come to the point of no return. The even more frightening thing is that almost everyone knows this and yet we still continue to live our lives normally and without change. We need a revolution, I just hope when the people of the world finally wake up to the reality of the situation, act or perish, it will not be too late.

I am a mindless consumer drone and I am fucking pleased about it.

While the goal of a technologically advanced, sustainable society are admirable and reasonable, the means by which the Zeitgest movement (ZM) wants to achieve it are impractical. What humanity [i]is[/i] must be understood and acknowledged before moving toward what humanity can be. The ZM looks at man as a static entity and attributes a singular mindset to the entire population. This is not reality. On the other hand, the technologies suggested are certainly realistically feasible. Geothermal energy, evacuated tube transportation, etc...

-snip-

a 2 hour long load of anti government horse shit [editline]28th January 2011[/editline] they're trying to make it artistic and depressing to mask the fact that they're fanatical with their beliefs

I can already tell im going to watch the movie. Be all hyped and anti government and spend the whole day wasting my time defending this film. Well whatever its not like I had anything better to do. [editline]28th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=miscreanity;27712441]The ZM looks at man as a static entity and attributes a singular mindset to the entire population. [/QUOTE] All it really says is that the environment determines what we are. dont you agree?

I watched half of it and then skimmed through the rest. Seems like the first hour was basic Sociology 101 and the rest ideas to improve modern society. This isn't the conspiracy theorist Zeitgeist I know.

Interesting, but HOW do you not be a mindless drone in a society like this without being shot down near immediately? It just seems completely beyond me how people get out there, how they make a difference in society.

[QUOTE=Droogie;27719964]I watched half of it and then skimmed through the rest. Seems like the first hour was basic Sociology 101 and the rest ideas to improve modern society. This isn't the conspiracy theorist Zeitgeist I know.[/QUOTE] I was expecting this to be heavy conspiracy stuff too, but a lot of it is just common-sense foundational work, explaining why we have a problem. While it does reject capitalism, it rejects every other economic system as well, clearly showing that the ideal economic system has yet to be made. [QUOTE=SirQuacks;27710282] We need a revolution, I just hope when the people of the world finally wake up to the reality of the situation, act or perish, it will not be too late.[/QUOTE] We don't need a violent revolution, we need individuals who can non-violently protest and gain the sympathy of others until the people in power are far outnumbered by the people who are wanting change.

[QUOTE=MagicBurrito;27716242]a 2 hour long load of anti government horse shit [editline]28th January 2011[/editline] they're trying to make it artistic and depressing to mask the fact that they're fanatical with their beliefs[/QUOTE] You could at least watch the movie. and by anti government do you mean anything that isn't the current system? by that wouldn't every idea that isn't the way the current system works also be called that? oh and I just finished the film. I was expecting conspiracies and ant-religion junk but was happily surprised.

[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;27723004]You could at least watch the movie. and by anti government do you mean anything that isn't the current system? by that wouldn't every idea that isn't the way the current system works also be called that? oh and I just finished the film. I was expecting conspiracies and ant-religion junk but was happily surprised.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I was just wanting to clarify that with everyone since I finished. Nearly the first hour is dedicated to the science of biology and psychology before going into economics. This isn't about conspiracies or corruption within government and corporations. The most they say about people is that we are horribly dependent on our current economic system. They are trying to make the point that our current way of living is unsustainable and unhealthy. We have more child abuse and crime than ever before. Poverty is also killing more people than any of the wars that nations have ever taken part in due to starvation and poor health. Again, this is not about big conspiracies and the world being against you, it's about having a problem, explaining why, and how to fix. Go watch the entire movie and if I'm wrong, I'll rip my ear off on live stream. [QUOTE=MagicBurrito;27716242] they're trying to make it artistic and depressing to mask the fact that they're fanatical with their beliefs[/QUOTE] You realize that makes not a bit of sense? I actually find the opposite. Using sound and having an artistic approach to the documentary seems to bring out that fact that they are big advocates. Sorry, I won't use that cop-out derogatory term "fanatical" to describe someone's interest in something.

[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;27719002]I can already tell im going to watch the movie. Be all hyped and anti government and spend the whole day wasting my time defending this film. Well whatever its not like I had anything better to do. [editline]28th January 2011[/editline] All it really says is that the environment determines what we are. dont you agree?[/QUOTE] Environment does have a significant influence. However, is it the be-all and end-all? Why are there so many who rebel against the establishment and unbridled consumerism? Shouldn't we all be mindless drones if environment is such an overwhelmingly dominant factor? Marketing tactics used in corporate advertising are being used very effectively in this video to play on emotional triggers while appealing to logic, directing the viewer's thinking toward a targeted conclusion. The best I can call this is psychological warfare. As well-intentioned as it may be, it's also terrifying. This is socialism in disguise and the scariest part is that the originator of this movement believes in it. [editline]29th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Droogie;27719964]I watched half of it and then skimmed through the rest. Seems like the first hour was basic Sociology 101 and the rest ideas to improve modern society. This isn't the conspiracy theorist Zeitgeist I know.[/QUOTE] It skirts the edges of being a conspiracy theory piece by merely implying that the system is out to get us. It's really very subtle, but obvious enough if you realize that the economic arguments are blatantly wrong in many cases. At [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w&t=1h05m25s]1:05.25[/url], using a clip of Milton Friedman without cutting to the core of why the man died beyond crucifying the electric company is a typical political tactic for discrediting an opponent. An electric company is an electric company, not social services or a charity. Bemoaning the handful of tragedies resulting from these situations is folly compared to the wholesale slaughter of people by their own governments. That segment offers no balancing view or even background other than a sensational topic and directs the unthinking viewer toward the conclusion that businesses are bad. There wouldn't be any electricity without the electric company, so the whole town would've died otherwise. That isn't mentioned, but it's thought of if you realize the games being played in this video. This is surreptitious propaganda that is on par with anything created by established governments. The end result is, as I said, a socialist regime. With a [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacque_Fresco]leader[/url] who was a member of the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_klux_klan]KKK[/url] I am now officially terrified of this gaining traction.

[QUOTE=miscreanity;27723818]Environment does have a significant influence. However, is it the be-all and end-all? Why are there so many who rebel against the establishment and unbridled consumerism? Shouldn't we all be mindless drones if environment is such an overwhelmingly dominant factor?[/QUOTE] Because people arnt all raised the same. Things like your region were you grew up, your parents or how much money you make changes a lot. But once you think about it people are the same in a lot of ways. We get married, most of us believe in a religion, most dont like murder. Oh and im surprised no one yelled communism yet.

[QUOTE=miscreanity;27723818] At [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w&t=1h05m25s]1:05.25[/url], using a clip of Milton Friedman without cutting to the core of why the man died beyond crucifying the electric company is a typical political tactic for discrediting an opponent. An electric company is an electric company, not social services or a charity. Bemoaning the handful of tragedies resulting from these situations is folly compared to the wholesale slaughter of people by their own governments. That segment offers no balancing view or even background other than a sensational topic and directs the unthinking viewer toward the conclusion that businesses are bad. There wouldn't be any electricity without the electric company, so the whole town would've died otherwise. That isn't mentioned, but it's thought of if you realize the games being played in this video. This is surreptitious propaganda that is on par with anything created by established governments. The end result is, as I said, a socialist regime. With a [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacque_Fresco]leader[/url] who was a member of the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_klux_klan]KKK[/url] I am now officially terrified of this gaining traction.[/QUOTE] Sounds like you're putting out the same stuff that conspiracy theory's little dumpling Alex Jones puts out. That guy honestly has no credibility in any way, especially after the leaked cables by Wikileaks about the Copenhagen climate convention. And a leader? The dude is over 90 years old and is about to croak. Furthermore, he seems to make a big deal about how this is not a race issue and that people are often a reflection of their culture. He seems to have his own experiences of being sucked into overwhelming norms. I still have an open mind here. This is just a really tough tightrope to walk on. I could block out everything and stay moderate all day but I find it more entertaining to look into what others have to say. What I've collected from watching the video: 1. Earth's resources are finite. (Propoganda?) 2. Previous economic systems were proposed and established without 1. considered. 3. Our systems lack conservation of resources. We use them faster than some can be replaced. 4. Violence, starvation, and other crimes are the result of poor living conditions or child abuse, or both. Also, you have a neuro-scientist from Standford University, pretty reputable, explainable a lot of this. If I can't give some amount of credit to what he knows, this world can seriously not be trusted. That fact that a resource-based economy does not have a monetary system kinda breaks it away from every system that has existed.

[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;27724197]Because people arnt all raised the same. Things like your region were you grew up, your parents or how much money you make changes a lot. But once you think about it people are the same in a lot of ways. We get married, most of us believe in a religion, most dont like murder.[/QUOTE] But we're all bombarded with advertising. And you mentioned money, so if that's an influencing factor, why aren't we all mere debt slaves financing our material addictions?

[QUOTE=miscreanity;27724410]But we're all bombarded with advertising. And you mentioned money, so if that's an influencing factor, why aren't we all mere debt slaves financing our material addictions?[/QUOTE] Because people react different to the environment do to other environment factors. The reason why we are not all dept slaves is because some people can handle money differently and because like I said before. [editline]28th January 2011[/editline] Strange youtube is removing it from the most viewed list. I dont believe its to because they want to stop the spread of "the truth" or anything but why?

[QUOTE=MagicBurrito;27716242]a 2 hour long load of anti government horse shit [editline]28th January 2011[/editline] they're trying to make it artistic and depressing to mask the fact that they're fanatical with their beliefs[/QUOTE] You actually hit the nail on the head. I love how they display mordern ctities as some sort of dystopia. These guys are radically insane. Plus this over the top effects and editing is the type of documentary that appeals to angsty kids. Any type of normal documentary properly states facts and doesn't have to cover everything up with shitty effects and animation.

[QUOTE=Mr_Razzums;27725002]You actually hit the nail on the head. I love how they display mordern ctities as some sort of dystopia. These guys are radically insane. Plus this over the top effects and editing is the type of documentary that appeals to angsty kids. Any type of normal documentary properly states facts and doesn't have to cover everything up with shitty effects and animation.[/QUOTE] Just wondering to you even watch the movie all the way? sure the effects were good for a documentary but the 2nd movie had horrible ones and I liked it. oh and if the best reason you can come up with why the system will not work is because there ideas arnt average then I will be pretty confidant about a resource based economy.

The whole adobe after effects orgy excuse is horrible. I find very few moments in which things are very artistic. Go watch any history/discovery channel documentary movie, why are you not complaining about those? I can tell you why, it's because it's convenient for you to use that excuse right now when you've come to a disagreement. I've also quickly been learning that many people who discredit Zeitgeist are often people who suspect it to be a new world order movement.

[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;27719002]I can already tell im going to watch the movie. Be all hyped and anti government and spend the whole day wasting my time defending this film. Well whatever its not like I had anything better to do. [editline]28th January 2011[/editline] All it really says is that the environment determines what we are. dont you agree?[/QUOTE] Just a word of advice. You are the only facepunch user that actively says over and over again how poor you are. Yet you have a computer, you have internet, and now you're posting how you are just going to spend the whole day watching and defending this film. Why do you get a job or do something productive with your life? Being poor isn't a disease, and if you really are poor you should stop wasting your time on fp and get a job. (and don't say you can't get a job. Because if you can't you aren't trying hard enough) Anyways, the zeitgesit isn't a new thing, I know what they believe in and they are over the top and this video doesn't prove otherwise.

[QUOTE=Mr_Razzums;27725121] Anyways, the zeitgesit isn't a new thing, I know what they believe in and they are over the top and this video doesn't prove otherwise.[/QUOTE] The video that you didn't watch, right. Also, stop stinking up the thread with side arguments about how your opponent might not have a job, which might be completely irrelevant. You could have the biggest splash screen effects and most intense music ever, but you can't turn the fact that earth has finite resources into propoganda. At this point, it's also pretty well established that an economy with monetary system is just waiting to pop inevitably.

[QUOTE=Mr_Razzums;27725121]Just a word of advice. You are the only facepunch user that actively says over and over again how poor you are. Yet you have a computer, you have internet, and now you're posting how you are just going to spend the whole day watching and defending this film. Why do you get a job or do something productive with your life? Being poor isn't a disease, and if you really are poor you should stop wasting your time on fp and get a job. (and don't say you can't get a job. Because if you can't you aren't trying hard enough) Anyways, the zeitgesit isn't a new thing, I know what they believe in and they are over the top and this video doesn't prove otherwise.[/QUOTE] I think you just showed that you didnt even watch the movie because it shows how being raised in a poor environment can and most of the time does effect the person 2nd My computer was bought partly due to cousin who gets native American money and 3rd Im trying to spend my time to get ready for the future by means of getting good grades. I am though planning on getting a job over the summer. also what does this have to do with anything? If you are really so sure the venus project would not work then how come you are coming up with excuses instead of giving a real reason of why it will not work?

[QUOTE=Hostel;27725139]The video that you didn't watch, right.[/QUOTE] [img]http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/8429/fagnl.jpg[/img] If national geographic had horrible biased documentaries such as this one, there would be no way they would still have a channel. [editline]29th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=imasillypiggy;27725172]I think you just showed that you didnt even watch the movie because it shows how being raised in a poor environment can and most of the time does effect the person 2nd My computer was bought partly due to cousin who gets native American money and 3rd Im trying to spend my time to get ready for the future by means of getting good grades. I am though planning on getting a job over the summer. also what does this have to do with anything? If you are really so sure the venus project would not work then how come you are coming up with excuses instead of giving a real reason of why it will not work?[/QUOTE] That's a horrible excuse by the way. Why not work at school? It isn't even hard to get free college anymore. A pell grant will pay for almost all of your college if you're poor. It won't work because its radical and change of that magnitude will never occur on this planet for as long as humans exist. Not to mention they make today's current situation 20 times worse than it actually is.

I didn't feel very emotionally provoked by the introduction of the movie. It's trying to show that there is a starch contrast below the conditions of wealthier people and people in poverty, particularly health conditions. The other argument was that poverty causes a lot of social problems. If you can presume what a 2 hour and 40 minute movie has to say, you're Jesus Christ.

[QUOTE=Hostel;27725287]I didn't feel very emotionally provoked by the introduction of the movie. It's trying to show that there is a starch contrast below the conditions of wealthier people and people in poverty, particularly health conditions. The other argument was that poverty causes a lot of social problems. If you can presume what a 2 hour and 40 minute movie has to say, you're Jesus Christ.[/QUOTE] Look at you basing all your facts off this movie alone. Like as if this movie has all the secrets of the movement hidden inside of it. This movement is years old.

[QUOTE=Mr_Razzums;27725210][img_thumb]http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/8429/fagnl.jpg[/img_thumb] If national geographic had horrible biased documentaries such as this one, there would be no way they would still have a channel.[/QUOTE] and that's when you stopped watching I see. Yea its trying to say rich people eat more and use resources they don't need while poor people don't because they don't have money. Its a documentary thats trying to make a point. You still have not gave a reason why the main point of the movie would not work (that is if you know what the main point is) [editline]28th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Mr_Razzums;27725210] That's a horrible excuse by the way. Why not work at school? It isn't even hard to get free college anymore. A pell grant will pay for almost all of your college if you're poor. [/quote] Like I said I want to make sure I have the time to do my work. this could interfere and 2nd Im getting a job in the summer. what does this have to do with anything? [quote]It won't work because its radical and change of that magnitude will never occur on this planet for as long as humans exist. Not to mention they make today's current situation 20 times worse than it actually is.[/QUOTE] that is a horrible excuse and a blanket statement that if worked we would still be having a king rule over us. [editline]28th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Mr_Razzums;27725310]Look at you basing all your facts off this movie alone. Like as if this movie has all the secrets of the movement hidden inside of it. This movement is years old.[/QUOTE] 2 years old so what?