Makayla Sault, Ontario First Nation girl, dies after abandoning chemo for traditional, alternative t - Polidicks

[b]Makayla Sault, Ontario First Nation girl, dies after abandoning chemo for traditional, alternative treatments[/b] Source: [url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/aboriginal/makayla-sault-girl-who-refused-chemo-for-leukemia-dies-1.2829885]CBC News[/url] ____________ [quote]Makayla Sault, the 11-year-old Ontario First Nation girl who refused chemotherapy to pursue traditional indigenous medicine and other alternative treatments, has died. The girl died Monday after suffering a stroke Sunday. "Surrounded by the love and support of her family, her community and her nation … Makayla completed her course. She is now safely in the arms of Jesus," her family said in a statement published by the Two Row Times. The girl’s case made national headlines and ignited a debate about the validity of indigenous medicine and the rights of children to choose their own treatment. The Saults are from the New Credit First Nation near Caledonia, Ont. Makayla was given a 75 per cent chance of survival when she was diagnosed with acute lymphoblastic leukemia (ALL) in March. She underwent 11 weeks of chemotherapy at McMaster Children’s Hospital in Hamilton. Her mother, Sonya Sault, said Makayla experienced severe side-effects and at one point ended up in intensive care. After Makayla said she had a vision of Jesus in the hospital, she wrote a letter to her doctors asking to stop treatment. "I am writing this letter to tell you that this chemo is killing my body and I cannot take it anymore." She left chemotherapy treatment while in remission to pursue alternative and traditional indigenous medicine. "Makayla was on her way to wellness, bravely fighting toward holistic well-being after the harsh side-effects that 12 weeks of chemotherapy inflicted on her body," the family statement read. "Chemotherapy did irreversible damage to her heart and major organs. This was the cause of the stroke." [b]Makayla exercised her rights, says children's aid society[/b] Although her family claims her death was due to chemotherapy, in September, a McMaster oncologist testified at a hearing on a similar case of a First Nations girl refusing cancer treatment that Makayla had suffered a relapse. The doctor also testified that there are no known cases of survival of this type of leukemia without a full course of chemotherapy treatment. When asked to comment on Makayla's death Tuesday, Ontario Minister of Children and Youth Services Tracy MacCharles said she learned of the girl's death "with great sadness." "Her precocious joy and optimism left a compelling impression on all she touched," MacCharles said in a statement. While she would not address the specifics of Makayla's case or the question of whether the ministry failed in its responsibility to protect the child, MacCharles said that "all children in Ontario have the same right to protection and access to health care." "There are times when parents' or guardians' wishes for treatment conflict with those of doctors," she said. "In these cases, we rely on the expertise of the local children's aid societies to investigate concerns and determine if intervention is needed." The children's aid society that handled Makayla's case, Brant Family and Children's Services, issued its own statement Tuesday. "Makayla was a wonderful, loving child who eloquently exercised her indigenous rights as a First Nations person and those legal rights provided to her under Ontario's Health Care Consent Act," said executive director Andrew Koster. "The parents are a caring couple who loved their daughter deeply." A visitation for Makayla will be held at New Credit Fellowship Centre on Thursday from 10 a.m. to 5 p.m. A celebration of life service will be held Friday at 11 a.m. at the Six Nations Community Hall. There will also be two evening services for Makayla at the New Credit Fellowship Centre, where her parents are pastors, on Wednesday and Thursday at 7p.m. [b]Attended 'life transformation program'[/b] When Makayla decided against continuing chemotherapy, the hospital referred her case to Brant Family and Children's Services. After a brief investigation, it decided Makayla was not a child in need of protection and that it would not apprehend her to return her to treatment. In an interview with CBC News in May, before the agency closed its investigation, Koster said, "For us to take her away, to apprehend and place in a home with strangers, if that's the case, if there aren't any relatives, when she's very, very ill — I can't see how that would be helpful." “I think people much more knowledgeable than ourselves need to be involved to look at what types of traditional medicines are being used, how does it fare up to some of the chemo treatments," said Koster. In July, Makayla travelled to the Hippocrates Health Institute in Florida and took its three-week "life transformation program." A CBC investigation revealed that Hippocrates is licensed as a "massage establishment," and is being sued by former staff who allege the company's president Brian Clement is operating "a scam under Florida law" and practising medicine without a licence. Makayla touched everyone she knew, said Peter Fitzgerald, president of McMaster Children's Hospital, in a statement. "Her loss is heartbreaking," he said, extending his condolences to her family. [b]Precedent-setting case in Ontario court[/b] Makayla's death comes a few months after an Ontario judge ruled in an unprecedented case of another First Nations girl who also refused chemo. The girl, whose identity is protected under a publication ban, was diagnosed with acute lymphoblastic leukemia in August. Doctors at McMaster Children's Hospital gave her a 90 to 95 per cent chance of survival. After 10 days of chemotherapy, she and her mother left McMaster to seek treatment at the Hippocrates Health Institute in Florida. The mother of the 11-year-old girl, who cannot be identified because of a publication ban, says the resort’s director, Clement, told her leukemia is "not difficult to treat." Clement, who goes by the title "Dr.," denied telling the mother that. In an interview with CBC's Connie Walker, Clement said, "When we educate them they take care of themselves," he said, before shouting, "You're a liar. Get off the property." In an interview with CBC News, her mother said, "This was not a frivolous decision I made. Before I took her off chemo, I made sure that I had a comprehensive health-care plan that I was very confident that was going to achieve ridding cancer of her body before I left the hospital. This is not something I think may work, this is something I know will work." The girl's mother said her daughter received cold laser therapy, Vitamin C injections and a strict raw food diet, among other therapies at Hippocrates. Judge Gethin Edward rejected the application from the Hamilton hospital that would have seen the Children's Aid Society intervene in Makayla's case.[/quote] No words. Wow. [editline]21st January 2015[/editline] We have a saying around here, it's "you shouldn't waste your health; there's people who don't have any". I'll never understand how could their parents let something like this happen to her.

See, the thing is man, if alternative medicines worked they'd just be called medicine.

[QUOTE=Rapscallion92;46979180]See, the thing is man, if alternative medicines worked they'd just be called medicine.[/QUOTE] Tell that to her parents. I insist, this is a fucking disgrace, I hate it when this happens. I read about cases like this, when Jehovah's witness refuse blood transfusions and some little kid dies... I'll never understand it.

Ya reap what ya sow, at least someone else was probably saved due to her idiocy.

[QUOTE=Crimor;46979187]Ya reap what ya sow, at least someone else was probably saved due to her idiocy.[/QUOTE] Not hers Mr bad reader, her parents.

People who let their children die because of their beliefs should be thrown in jail. It's manslaughter.

Its sort of difficult to decide who has the right to decide. Should it be the child? Are they capable of making the right decision? Should it be the parent? Should they have that power over the child? Should it be the government? Should they have that power over the child and the parents, would it set a dangerous precedent of government controlling peoples lives? The logical part of me says government but the freedums luvin, government fearing liberal part of me says it should be the parent or child.

[QUOTE=Rapscallion92;46979190]Not hers Mr bad reader, her parents.[/QUOTE] I remember her specifically saying that she didn't want treatment from the other thread about this.

Help those who want to be helped, is what I always said. Hopefully people will learn from this, but knowing the general consensus; they'll probably blame it on something else.

[QUOTE=Hyperbole;46979193]People who let their children die because of their beliefs should be thrown in jail. It's manslaughter.[/QUOTE] My thoughts exactly. But in this case, she "exercised her rights"... what does a 11 year old know about her rights, and furthermore, what's best for her?! I insist, her parents are at fault here.

[QUOTE=Crimor;46979198]I remember her specifically saying that she didn't want treatment from the other thread about this.[/QUOTE] Yeah but she's a kid, she's allowed to be a dumbass, her parents aren't.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;46979197]Its sort of difficult to decide who has the right to decide. Should it be the child? Are they capable of making the right decision? Should it be the parent? Should they have that power over the child? Should it be the government? Should they have that power over the child and the parents, would it set a dangerous precedent of government controlling peoples lives? The logical part of me says government but the freedums luvin, government fearing liberal part of me says it should be the parent or child.[/QUOTE] Last time I checked, in legal terms, a minor's well-being is entirely in the hands of their parents/tutors. And it's assumed that they know what's best for them. What the *fuck* where they thinking?! GAH.

Yeah, put the parents in jail for manslaughter. Can anyone tell me why the fact that they're "first nation" people matters? They mention it a lot in the article, but does it have any significance with regards to rights?

Only when you're 16, or 18, or when you reach a legal adult age (depending on the country), is when they're free of that responsibility and it's up to you. Not sure how this works in Canada, but giving "rights" to an 11 year old is extremely weird to me. Grr automerge broken

What compels people to go for obvious scam treatments? I understand that staring death in the face can alter your judgement, but what is the use of even pursuing something like a massage treatment for cancer? Why would you waste your last hopes on nonsense? You would be far better off resigning yourself to death, which is completely understandable under these circumstances. But wasting your time, money, and effort on quackery is baffling to me.

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;46979218]Last time I checked, in legal terms, a minor's well-being is entirely in the hands of their parents/tutors. And it's assumed that they know what's best for them. What the *fuck* where they thinking?! GAH.[/QUOTE] As I understood it from previous threads normally in Canada (like most western countries) the courts will force a minor to have medical treatment. Except in this case because the girl was native some ancient treaty came into play which overruled the courts. What a fucking mess.

[QUOTE=w00tf1zh;46979204]Help those who want to be helped, is what I always said.[/QUOTE] I agree. Maybe there should be some regulation where people like her parents sign a "Darwin nominee" waiver, releasing medical institutions from any responsibility, so they can be expelled from the hospital, giving place to someone who *really* wants and needs the medical attention. [editline]21st January 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=download;46979250]As I understood it from previous threads normally in Canada (like most western countries) the courts will force a minor to have medical treatment. Except in this case because the girl was native some ancient treaty came into play which overruled the courts. What a fucking mess.[/QUOTE] And how does that make a difference?! Oh gawd. :/

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;46979258]I agree. Maybe there should be some regulation where people like her parents sign a "Darwin nominee" waiver, releasing medical institutions from any responsibility, so they can be expelled from the hospital, giving place to someone who *really* wants and needs the medical attention. [editline]21st January 2015[/editline] And how does that make a difference?! Oh gawd. :/[/QUOTE] In Canada first nations people are afforded different specific rights and stuff like that sometimes due to their status. For example, they are able to obtain a status card that grants them tax exempt status on consumer products.

[QUOTE=Medevila;46979316]It definitely shouldn't be the child, and it'd be best if the state stepped in to ensure a rational decision was made only a minor would think a child should be able to pick what kind of treatment they receive[/QUOTE] There are cases where the parents want alternative treatments and the kids want the standard treatment for their ailments. It's not as clear cut as kids are dumb and parents are smart, the responsibility should fall on the parents, if they're endangering the kids life then the state should step in and get a court order for treatment.

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;46979258] And how does that make a difference?! Oh gawd. :/[/QUOTE] I don't know the exact wording but back when Canada was first a British colony they must have made some sort of treaty with the locals and now some cause in this treaty applies in this case.

She could've had Medicinal, but instead she chose the shittier path.

[QUOTE=Explosions;46979232]What compels people to go for obvious scam treatments? I understand that staring death in the face can alter your judgement, but what is the use of even pursuing something like a massage treatment for cancer? Why would you waste your last hopes on nonsense? You would be far better off resigning yourself to death, which is completely understandable under these circumstances. But wasting your time, money, and effort on quackery is baffling to me.[/QUOTE] But the fact is, chemo works, it may feel like your dying but it works and they target it very well today that its like in this case very effective

[QUOTE=Medevila;46979316]It definitely shouldn't be the child, and it'd be best if the state stepped in to ensure a rational decision was made only a minor would think a child should be able to pick what kind of treatment they receive[/QUOTE] In Uk recently there was a ruckus about a kid being taken from hospital to be treated in spain with some proton beam therapy which isn't provided anywhere in the UK. There were pics of this kid with cancer surrounded by cops while his parents were in jail, that probably did more harm to the kid than the journey to spain. In poland GSK was paying doctors to subscribe pills the patient didn't even need, this poses a possible conflict of interest. In both cases having the state decide on what treatment people get (through professionals which would cost either the state or the parents money) opens up both of the issues above and more. What if I don't want my kid having a certain type of pills? What if I genuinely, with good intent, think there is a better course for treatment? A top down, state makes all the decisions based system is what the US was founded on trying to avoid, granted it was optimistic but lots of people would oppose such state interference, they would see it as a denial of freedom which they would once have had.

What is even sadder is that the "hospital" that gave her this bullshit treatment even exists, laser pointers and orange juice cannot treat cancer, these places should be shut down if they pretend it does

[QUOTE=Explosions;46979232]What compels people to go for obvious scam treatments? I understand that staring death in the face can alter your judgement, but what is the use of even pursuing something like a massage treatment for cancer? Why would you waste your last hopes on nonsense? You would be far better off resigning yourself to death, which is completely understandable under these circumstances. But wasting your time, money, and effort on quackery is baffling to me.[/QUOTE] Not related to this case since it was a child being treated but people might not want to go through the pain If you have metastatic cancer then chemo will only buy you a few months. One might value the quality of time you have left over having a few months added on which you can't enjoy anyway because your skin is on fire, you can't taste a single thing, you are cold, you can't sleep (all from chemo) then in the time you bought from with treatment you can only enjoy your body slowly failing, water retention or weight loss, jaundice, panic, tiredness. You might as well relax yourself and go out on your own terms, even if it means "giving up" Those quack scam things help people relax and come to terms with their condition.

[QUOTE]"Makayla was on her way to wellness, bravely fighting toward holistic well-being after the harsh side-effects that 12 weeks of chemotherapy inflicted on her body," the family statement read. "Chemotherapy did irreversible damage to her heart and major organs. This was the cause of the stroke."[/QUOTE] You aren't a god damn doctor, you don't have the right to make that call. And you are the reason she died, because without Chemo, should would have died no matter what. [QUOTE]"There are times when parents' or guardians' wishes for treatment conflict with those of doctors," she said. "In these cases, we rely on the expertise of the local children's aid societies to investigate concerns and determine if intervention is needed." The children's aid society that handled Makayla's case, Brant Family and Children's Services, issued its own statement Tuesday. "Makayla was a wonderful, loving child who eloquently exercised her indigenous rights as a First Nations person and those legal rights provided to her under Ontario's Health Care Consent Act," said executive director Andrew Koster. "The parents are a caring couple who loved their daughter deeply."[/QUOTE] How are they even legally allowed to do function as a service. [QUOTE]The mother of the 11-year-old girl, who cannot be identified because of a publication ban, says the resort’s director, Clement, told her leukemia is "not difficult to treat."[/QUOTE] yes, and that is why your child is alive and well right now, I'm sure... Oh wait a minute fuck you're irresponsible nature. if we already knew about an alternative cure for cancer we would have used it. How can you be so stupid, and so oblivious. Chemo is such nasty shit, but if they don't take it they'll die anyways no matter what. it can extend their lives by months, years, even decades. [QUOTE=Hyperbole;46979193]People who let their children die because of their beliefs should be thrown in jail. It's manslaughter.[/QUOTE] just because they call it a religious belief doesn't make it any less a case of manslaughter, either.

[QUOTE=Megadave;46979646]She could've had Medicinal, but instead she chose the shittier path.[/QUOTE] I honestly doubt smoking one blunt every day would have saved her either.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;46979776]I honestly doubt smoking one blunt every day would have saved her either.[/QUOTE] Well of coarse not, you use treatments of rick simpson oil, high concentrations of CBD dealt out over along period of time. Several blunts a day of the highest cbd content won't dent it.

[QUOTE=Megadave;46979791]Well of coarse not, you use treatments of rick simpson oil, high concentrations of CBD dealt out over along period of time. Several blunts a day of the highest cbd content won't dent it.[/QUOTE] That doesn't sound like it'd actually remove the tumor or decrease its size by any means. Maybe as a mean to slow it down or sort of stop its progression sure, but you shouldn't drop chemo entirely regardless.

[QUOTE=Sableye;46979712]But the fact is, chemo works, it may feel like your dying but it works and they target it very well today that its like in this case very effective[/QUOTE] It feels like you're dying because you are dying, but it's controlled dying.