Official: Russia knew in advance of Syrian chemical attack - Polidicks

[quote] WASHINGTON (AP) — The United States has concluded Russia knew in advance of Syria's chemical weapons attack last week, a senior U.S. official said Monday. The official said a drone operated by Russians was flying over a hospital as victims of the attack were rushing to get treatment. Hours after the drone left, a Russian-made fighter jet bombed the hospital in what American officials believe was an attempt to cover up the usage of chemical weapons. The official said the presence of the surveillance drone over the hospital couldn't have been a coincidence, and that Russia must have known the chemical weapons attack was coming and that victims were seeking treatment. The official, who wasn't authorized to speak publicly on intelligence matters and demanded anonymity, didn't give precise timing for when the drone was above the northern Syrian town of Khan Sheikhtoun, where more than 80 people were killed. He also didn't provide all the details for the military and intelligence information that form the basis of what he said the Pentagon has now concluded. The allegation is grave, even by the standards of the currently dismal U.S.-Russian relations. [/Quote] [URL="http://bigstory.ap.org/article/19772be1238e49fbb62c509a5b659b3d/official-us-military-takes-extra-precautions-syria"]AP[/URL] Meanwhile, Spicy calls Russia our "Ally".

Holy shit dude if that's true, then things are about get a lot worse.

Oh fuck

Strap on your boots boys, we're going nowhere because I have Chondromalacia Patella

I'd honestly hazard a guess at saying the US had at least a hunch it could/would happen too tbh. Not really surprised Russia knew about it either. They're world superpowers for a reason, they have extensive intelligence networks.

they have yet to prove the Syrian government actually used chemicals and now they say Russia knew about it, amazing.

[QUOTE=Llamaguy;52086018][URL="http://bigstory.ap.org/article/19772be1238e49fbb62c509a5b659b3d/official-us-military-takes-extra-precautions-syria"]AP[/URL] Meanwhile, Spicy calls Russia our "Ally".[/QUOTE] Against IS, that is. Can we first put all of those terrorist fuckheads into the dirt permanently before figuring out what to do about the whole Syria situation, because that's what most of the world wants at the moment instead of trying to do it in reverse order, which would help jack fucking shit for the stability in the Middle East.

I love this, "U.S. official" then it must be true! The US government never lies! They are saints!

[QUOTE=Nebrassy;52086182]they have yet to prove the Syrian government actually used chemicals and now they say Russia knew about it, amazing.[/QUOTE] Who else would it have been? Nobody seems to dispute that a chemical weapon was present, one that is at least functionally similar to sarin. (It is possible it was another, similar, compound, but that doesn't change any of these conclusions so I'll just simplify to saying "sarin" instead of "sarin (or whichever related chemical weapon turns out to have been used)") Sarin is not an easy chemical to synthesize. It's [I]possible[/I] for a terrorist group to do it (eg. Aum Shinrikyo), but it gets much harder under wartime conditions. Many of the easiest reagents are themselves restricted under chemical weapons treaties (eg. thioglycol), which means a pretty involved synthesis would be required. This isn't high-school chemistry - producing more than a beaker-full would require a real, professional chemical engineer. The strike was in territory controlled by Tahrir al-Sham. To the best of my knowledge, they have not been reported to use chemical weapons of any sort - no mustard gas, no phosgene. There are mixed reports of ISIS using chemical weapons such as those, which are far, far easier to produce, but again, no prior reports of them using sarin. It is [I]faintly[/I] possible ISIS might have expanded into sarin production, but that still would require a huge chain of coincidences in order to result in what we saw. Further, sarin is a very reactive chemical, with a pretty short shelf-life, which is decreased by contaminants of any sort. Syria (to my knowledge) never mastered storeable sarin themselves - meaning their old stocks had a service life of about a year. It is simply impossible for any sarin that was captured [I]prior[/I] to Assad's claimed disarmament to still exist in usable form. Therefore, even if it was merely captured, and not created by TaS, that still proves that someone in Syria is synthesizing sarin - and the only party with proven sarin-production capabilities is Assad's forces (well, also Russia and the United States, but neither have been reported to use chemical weapons in Syria, and were not involved in this strike proper). So there are a few general possibilities. First, that Assad's forces used sarin gas in this attack, either produced themselves, or possibly obtained from an ally. Second, that TaS has an entire chemical weapons program that jumped straight into one of the most advanced compounds ever devised, and despite never using it in battle, Russia and Assad somehow learned of it and performed a surgical strike to destroy their stockpile, whilst not sharing this undoubtedly important information with America. Third, that TaS somehow captured a stockpile of sarin gas from some other party, none of whom are themselves using sarin in combat and all of whom have supposedly destroyed their stockpiles - and then, again, Assad's forces discovered this before they could be used, and performed a strike on it, and once again failed to tell anyone else that TaS suddenly acquired this deadly capability, and then have shown none of that intel despite being accused of war crimes. This doesn't even needs Occam's Razor. Occam's Pruning Shears are enough to point at which possibility is vastly more likely.

[QUOTE=Nebrassy;52086182]they have yet to prove the Syrian government actually used chemicals and now they say Russia knew about it, amazing.[/QUOTE] a dude from the Guardian was down on the ground and there was bare chemical shit everywhere, and not from some burst pipe or a factory but a fuckin' crater in the road, with all the buildings immediately next to it completely intact, symptoms of the dead similar to previous sarin attacks (and if it wasn't sarin it was still some nasty fuckin chemical that's probably banned or going to be) delivered via a method that the government have easy means to use? [URL]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/06/the-dead-were-wherever-you-looked-inside-syrian-town-after-chemical-attack[/URL] what's man chattin'

[QUOTE=gman003-main;52086318]Who else would it have been? Nobody seems to dispute that a chemical weapon was present, one that is at least functionally similar to sarin. (It is possible it was another, similar, compound, but that doesn't change any of these conclusions so I'll just simplify to saying "sarin" instead of "sarin (or whichever related chemical weapon turns out to have been used)") Sarin is not an easy chemical to synthesize. It's [I]possible[/I] for a terrorist group to do it (eg. Aum Shinrikyo), but it gets much harder under wartime conditions. Many of the easiest reagents are themselves restricted under chemical weapons treaties (eg. thioglycol), which means a pretty involved synthesis would be required. This isn't high-school chemistry - producing more than a beaker-full would require a real, professional chemical engineer. The strike was in territory controlled by Tahrir al-Sham. To the best of my knowledge, they have not been reported to use chemical weapons of any sort - no mustard gas, no phosgene. There are mixed reports of ISIS using chemical weapons such as those, which are far, far easier to produce, but again, no prior reports of them using sarin. It is [I]faintly[/I] possible ISIS might have expanded into sarin production, but that still would require a huge chain of coincidences in order to result in what we saw. Further, sarin is a very reactive chemical, with a pretty short shelf-life, which is decreased by contaminants of any sort. Syria (to my knowledge) never mastered storeable sarin themselves - meaning their old stocks had a service life of about a year. It is simply impossible for any sarin that was captured [I]prior[/I] to Assad's claimed disarmament to still exist in usable form. Therefore, even if it was merely captured, and not created by TaS, that still proves that someone in Syria is synthesizing sarin - and the only party with proven sarin-production capabilities is Assad's forces (well, also Russia and the United States, but neither have been reported to use chemical weapons in Syria, and were not involved in this strike proper). So there are a few general possibilities. First, that Assad's forces used sarin gas in this attack, either produced themselves, or possibly obtained from an ally. Second, that TaS has an entire chemical weapons program that jumped straight into one of the most advanced compounds ever devised, and despite never using it in battle, Russia and Assad somehow learned of it and performed a surgical strike to destroy their stockpile, whilst not sharing this undoubtedly important information with America. Third, that TaS somehow captured a stockpile of sarin gas from some other party, none of whom are themselves using sarin in combat and all of whom have supposedly destroyed their stockpiles - and then, again, Assad's forces discovered this before they could be used, and performed a strike on it, and once again failed to tell anyone else that TaS suddenly acquired this deadly capability, and then have shown none of that intel despite being accused of war crimes. This doesn't even needs Occam's Razor. Occam's Pruning Shears are enough to point at which possibility is vastly more likely.[/QUOTE] won't go into much details about this, further investigation are 100% needed, no proof is at hand right now, they don't even know it was sarin for sure, also "who else could it be" proves nothing.

Yeah, I'm kind of skeptical after the WMDs that led to Iraq.

[QUOTE=vrej;52086246]I love this, "U.S. official" then it must be true! The US government never lies! They are saints![/QUOTE] Yeah right Putin, you can't fool me

[QUOTE=vrej;52086246]I love this, "U.S. official" then it must be true! The US government never lies! They are saints![/QUOTE] What source do you suggest then?

[QUOTE=matt000024;52086363]Yeah, I'm kind of skeptical after the WMDs that led to Iraq.[/QUOTE] What saddened mi in Iraq's case is that, no one liked saddam no one from his country, not even members of his own government, he was so stupid that he made everyone his enemy, when the US attacked, no one supported him as everyone hated him, the worst part is, the people in his country had to stand with the man they hate the most against an enemy invading them, claiming to help them, they had to fight with the man they wish to kill because they believed no matter how bad it is, someone from their nation would still be much better than any other countries to rule them as they liked, they were right, no one won there. After everything saddam did, Iraqi's still lived a relatively normal life, and after the US invasion everything felt apart, it was even clear here in Syria with the millions of them that fled the country to Syria, it was a really sad thing to see, even though it's really blurry in my mind as I was like 6. I hope we won't have to take the same decision. [editline]11th April 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=da space core;52086426]What source do you suggest then?[/QUOTE] Well idk, atleast for me a "we know they had to know of something we don't know if it actually happened" doesn't prove much

BREAKING : US officials confirm that Syria used chemical weapons! Yeah they have been saying that since last week, let's wait until a real investigation.

Does "Russian-made" specify literally everything Assad's army is using or do they actually mean a Russian Air Force jet.

[QUOTE=Thomo_UK;52086454]Does "Russian-made" specify literally everything Assad's army is using or do they actually mean a Russian Air Force jet.[/QUOTE] The former, that is intended to narrow it down to either Russia or Assad, but most likely Assad.

[QUOTE=Nebrassy;52086348]won't go into much details about this, further investigation are 100% needed, no proof is at hand right now, they don't even know it was sarin for sure, also "who else could it be" proves nothing.[/QUOTE] Saying "you can't prove who did it" also proves nothing. Every single fact we know about this, points towards Bashir. Is it possible more facts could arise and prove otherwise? Of course. It's not impossible that North Korea is giving TaS chemical weapons, to try to make Syria as deadly as possible for America and Russia. Or maybe there's a species of desert lizard that produces sarin, and someone was operating an underground exotic pet store. Or maybe an alien spacecraft was shot down during the battle, and Centauran biochemistry involves a lot of stuff that works as neurotoxins on us. But I'm pretty confident in saying that there's at least a 95% chance that either Assad or Putin breached the Chemical Warfare Convention during this attack. And those are good enough odds to move forward under.

[QUOTE=Marbalo;52086536]You've got everything right, except you're missing a motive. Who benefits from Syria using chemical weapons?[/QUOTE] I've heard this over and over but it ignores 2 major factors: For one, we've got Sean Spicer saying days before that the US has dropped its demand for Assad to step down and a US administration that advertised itself with isolationism. With Russia effectively promising to defend Assad no matter what, is there much of a disincentive to pull out all the stops? Secondly, you are presuming rationality from a dictator who has seen his country that he and his father ruled with an iron but stable fist under minority rule torn asunder by six years of civil war. Assad may be calculating, but we don't know that he's Machiavelli smart.

[quote]The official said a drone operated by Russians was flying over a hospital as victims of the attack were rushing to get treatment.[B] Hours after the drone left, a Russian-made fighter jet bombed the hospital in what American officials believe was an attempt to cover up the usage of chemical weapons.[/B][/quote] Holy fuck, what a bunch of heartless bastards. Assuming this is true, they did a pretty horrendous job of covering up the attack. Guess they forgot about this little thing called the Internet...

[QUOTE=Marbalo;52086536]You've got everything right, except you're missing a motive. Who benefits from Syria using chemical weapons?[/QUOTE] Motive is the weakest evidence. Many, many people do things that are against their own long-term interests. Accidents happen - maybe Syria is stockpiling sarin shells, not intending to use them yet, but mixed up a batch of artillery shells. People are irrational - maybe Assad thinks the fear he gets from using sarin outweighs any foreign outcry. Systems can fail - perhaps a colonel made the call to use them. Motive is useful when you don't have anything else to go on. But it weighs pretty lightly against physical evidence. [I]Particularly[/I] when you seem to be implying some conspiracy-type shit is going on. Who benefits from Syria using chemical weapons? Syria does, at least over a certain time scale.

[QUOTE=gman003-main;52086516]Saying "you can't prove who did it" also proves nothing. Every single fact we know about this, points towards Bashir. Is it possible more facts could arise and prove otherwise? Of course. It's not impossible that North Korea is giving TaS chemical weapons, to try to make Syria as deadly as possible for America and Russia. Or maybe there's a species of desert lizard that produces sarin, and someone was operating an underground exotic pet store. Or maybe an alien spacecraft was shot down during the battle, and Centauran biochemistry involves a lot of stuff that works as neurotoxins on us. But I'm pretty confident in saying that there's at least a 95% chance that either Assad or Putin breached the Chemical Warfare Convention during this attack. And those are good enough odds to move forward under.[/QUOTE] Remember a while back, the Syrian army was accused of using chemical weapons in Aleppo, they took this all to the UN and they wanted to decide a military solution based on that, until Russia showed proof of where the rocket was actually fired from, which was a "rebel" controlled area. Innocent until proven otherwise, we usually don't accept a "no one else had a motive" as a proof for a crime, and even then the government had no interest or motive to use chemicals, as it obviously would never turn in their favor, while they also could use rockets and explosives to get much better results if they wanted to kill. You know what's more retarded? Seeing a post on Dean's facebook claiming that the Syrian army used chemical attacks at least 120 times before. I'm also not here to defend the government, they don't need anyone to defend them and no one will believe me anyway. the Syrian that is in the army doesn't go there because he likes the government, he volunteers to defend his country, and the fact that every Syrian is required to serve in the army just gives it more credibility to me, the Syrian army is the only real force that resembles Syrians, and that's why I go high on calling BS on such claim.

[QUOTE=Marbalo;52086536]You've got everything right, except you're missing a motive. Who benefits from Syria using chemical weapons?[/QUOTE] In that part of the world where it's gonna be hard to prove anything 100%, and that is a perfect enviroment for False Flag operations. Assad has the perfect Alibi. "I aint that stupid to use Sarin gas, What would I stand to gain from using it aside from possible Western intervention", "My enemies know this thats why they used it and pretend to be goverment forces"

Regardless of who used the weapons, if the Russian surveillance and attacking of the hospital is true, fuck them with a rusty sickle.

[media]https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/851580173954797568[/media]

[QUOTE=Potus;52086691][media]https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/851580173954797568[/media][/QUOTE] Man, Sources Say must have a really long political feud with Senior Administration Official

[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;52086680]Regardless of who used the weapons, if the Russian surveillance and attacking of the hospital is true, fuck them with a rusty sickle.[/QUOTE] Not that I can't imagine our government bombing a hospital to cover up their asses(or any other major power's government to be honest, as big politics are always dirty), but those two events may not really be connected with each other. The drone could be there to collect intelligence exactly because something was going on, and then that russian-made plane came(i guess i don't have to mention that everything syrian AF operates is russian made). Either way the bombing is our fuckup, as it's obviously our job to keep the syrian government on some sort of a leash.

[QUOTE=Potus;52086691][media]https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/851580173954797568[/media][/QUOTE] All we known the Drone was Russian Made, it is Likely that Assad himself ordered the Drone.

[QUOTE=Jordax;52086232]Against IS, that is. Can we first put all of those terrorist fuckheads into the dirt permanently before figuring out what to do about the whole Syria situation, because that's what most of the world wants at the moment instead of trying to do it in reverse order, which would help jack fucking shit for the stability in the Middle East.[/QUOTE] Putin doesn't want to work with the US militarily and your man Trump doesn't want to work with Russia militarily against ISIS so no that isn't really an option.