[quote]DENVER — The trial of the former grad student charged in the deadly Colorado movie theater shootings will likely be delayed weeks or months because he wants to change his plea to not guilty by reason of insanity.
[..]
Holmes, 25, is charged with more than 160 counts of murder and attempted murder in the July 20 attack in Aurora that killed 12 people and left 70 wounded or injured. Prosecutors said Holmes spent months buying guns and thousands of rounds of ammunition, donned police-style body armor and opened fire during a midnight screening of the latest Batman movie.
Prosecutors announced last month they would seek the death penalty at the trial
[...]
Holmes had sent the psychiatrist a notebook that media reports said included crude drawings of violence. Prosecutors might renew their request to see the notebook because state law gives them access to some medical records of defendants who plead not guilty by reason of insanity.
Prosecutors backed off their previous attempt to see the notebook when Holmes' lawyers said it was protected by doctor-patient privilege.
[/quote]
[url]http://www.policeone.com/news/6225939-Colo-theater-gunman-changes-plea-to-insanity/[/url]
And before people go "well of course hes insane, look at what he did" you need to understand that being found [I]criminally insane[/I] is not the same as being insane by society's views.
In order for someone to be found criminally insane his/her lawyers have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he/she did not know what what they were doing was wrong. This is really hard to prove, especially in this case where the evidence of premeditation is overwhelming.
Honestly, I'm happy he is trying to change his plea.
Shows that he ended up being a little bitch (not someone with a death wish) who didn't realize how fucked they were. Just like that other kid with the killer shirt.
i really think he is criminally insane tbh
[QUOTE=Tudd;40585987]Honestly, I'm happy he is trying to change his plea.
Shows that he ended up being a little bitch who didn't realize how fucked they were. Just like that other kid with the killer shirt.[/QUOTE]
I don't see how he's like the kid with the killer shirt, really.
[QUOTE=Tudd;40585987]Honestly, I'm happy he is trying to change his plea.
Shows that he ended up being a little bitch who didn't realize how fucked they were. Just like that other kid with the killer shirt.[/QUOTE]
yeah as opposed to a [i]real man[/i] who would be god damn proud of the mass-murder he committed, not some little bitch who shows remorse
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;40586001]i really think he is criminally insane tbh[/QUOTE]
Pre-meditation here means that even if he is, it doesn't mean jack shit in a U.S court.
[QUOTE=Judas;40586065]yeah as opposed to a [i]real man[/i] who would be god damn proud of the mass-murder he committed, not some little bitch who shows remorse[/QUOTE]
He is not showing remorse, he is trying to squirm his way out from under justice.
You have to be insane to shoot up a cinema full of people and think it's a good idea.
[QUOTE=Judas;40586065]yeah as opposed to a [i]real man[/i] who would be god damn proud of the mass-murder he committed, not some little bitch who shows remorse[/QUOTE]
Not saying i'm happy he didn't turn out to be a "real man". I was thinking he was just some apathetic killer with no care for dying. Someone who would die not feeling anything towards his actions.
Now that he is changing his plea, it confirms the remorse, thus i'm glad he feels punishment.
[QUOTE=_Kent_;40586106]He is not showing remorse, he is trying to squirm his way out from under justice.[/QUOTE]
I don't think any of us are in a position to claim absolute knowledge of the mind of someone who would commit a mass murder on a bunch of random people in a theater for no reason.
If he knew that shooting people repeatedly would seriously injure or kill them, and if he knew how society would view it, he is not criminally insane. I am pretty sure he understood both of those concepts.
[editline]9th May 2013[/editline]
He also surrendered as soon as cops arrived. He knew that shooting would bring cops, he knew he'd be arrested, and he understood how a standoff would've ended. There is no way he did not grasp the concepts of death and consequences. If he were truly criminally insane, he would not have had the judgement to surrender. Most likely not the smarts to plan this all out either.
[QUOTE=ZF911;40586679]If he knew that shooting people repeatedly would seriously injure or kill them, and if he knew how society would view it, he is not criminally insane. I am pretty sure he understood both of those concepts.
[editline]9th May 2013[/editline]
He also surrendered as soon as cops arrived. He knew that shooting would bring cops, he knew he'd be arrested, and he understood how a standoff would've ended. There is no way he did not grasp the concepts of death and consequences. If he were truly criminally insane, he would not have had the judgement to surrender. Most likely not the smarts to plan this all out either.[/QUOTE]
not all insanity works the same way, and not all insanity applies at all times. that's just not how it works.
Even if he's judged criminally insane I'm pretty sure it won't exactly make him immune to getting a proper sentence.
I was in that theater, he needs to die.
[QUOTE=Vodkavia;40587643]Or just extremely self destructive.[/QUOTE]
Generally there's an underlying mental problem if that is the case.
[QUOTE=Zacn;40587823]I was in that theater, he needs to die.[/QUOTE]
hi hello i had this argument with ridge
you are literally too involved in the case for your feelings to be separate from your judgement
[QUOTE=_Kent_;40586106]He is not showing remorse, he is trying to squirm his way out from under justice.[/QUOTE]
what would be "justice" for james holmes in this case?
[QUOTE=areolop;40585736][url]http://www.policeone.com/news/6225939-Colo-theater-gunman-changes-plea-to-insanity/[/url]
And before people go "well of course hes insane, look at what he did" you need to understand that being found [I]criminally insane[/I] is not the same as being insane by society's views.
In order for someone to be found criminally insane his/her lawyers have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he/she did not know what what they were doing was wrong. This is really hard to prove, especially in this case where the evidence of premeditation is overwhelming.[/QUOTE]
Aren't there two facets of an insane plea? One is, as you've stated, being in mental state that removes or distorts your ability to judge an act as 'wrong', but the second is being unable to control yourself. Not a like a rage, but having a state of mind where, even if you know it is wrong, it's impossible for you not commit a criminal act.
Hence the 'policeman at your shoulder test' - would the individual have committed the crime regardless if there was a policeman standing right behind them.
Also, the first type of insanity, 'being unable to discern right from wrong', can include premeditation, for everyone saying otherwise, say for instance you plot to kill someone because you know, [I]you really know[/I], they're a shape changing alien mastermind and killing them is the only way to prevent the end of world.
[QUOTE=Zacn;40587823]I was in that theater, he needs to die.[/QUOTE]
You have every right to feel that way and are perfectly okay in expressing those feelings, but I don't think we should prosecute based on the terms of those victimized. If he really is mentally ill and gets into a care facility, you can rest assured that he will in all likelihood die there, after the drugs they throw at him rot him from the inside out.
No matter where he goes, chances are he is not getting out. He won't see freedom, and he won't ever have the chance to do what he did again. He'd be going into the absolutely abysmal American Psychological and Psychiatric system, which I assume you can take some schadenfreudian comfort from. Whether or not he dies, he is going to spend a long time poorly looked after and alone, in which he might figure out and eventually regret his actions.
I would say the odds of him coming to terms and emotionally suffering for his actions (which would tear any near sane person apart, generally) are better in the medical system, where in prison he would simply become harder and more distant from his remorse and actions.
If we simply kill him, he will never get to feel the moral wrongness of his actions, which I think is a far greater punishment to give someone. If we can get him there, he will still be too ill to leave the hospital and will spend the rest of his days wallowing in depression and terror for what he's done. He'll never be 'cured' or released in all likelihood, and he will be studied and understood for when we come across similar circumstances down the line.
I'm glad he changed it. Maybe he won't die.
[QUOTE=FreakyMe;40588220]You have every right to feel that way and are perfectly okay in expressing those feelings, but I don't think we should prosecute based on the terms of those victimized. If he really is mentally ill and gets into a care facility, you can rest assured that he will in all likelihood die there, after the drugs they throw at him rot him from the inside out.
No matter where he goes, chances are he is not getting out. He won't see freedom, and he won't ever have the chance to do what he did again. He'd be going into the absolutely abysmal American Psychological and Psychiatric system, which I assume you can take some schadenfreudian comfort from. Whether or not he dies, he is going to spend a long time poorly looked after and alone, in which he might figure out and eventually regret his actions.
I would say the odds of him coming to terms and emotionally suffering for his actions (which would tear any near sane person apart, generally) are better in the medical system, where in prison he would simply become harder and more distant from his remorse and actions.
If we simply kill him, he will never get to feel the moral wrongness of his actions, which I think is a far greater punishment to give someone. If we can get him there, he will still be too ill to leave the hospital and will spend the rest of his days wallowing in depression and terror for what he's done. He'll never be 'cured' or released in all likelihood, and he will be studied and understood for when we come across similar circumstances down the line.[/QUOTE]
You talk pretty
He is probably doing it because he realized how shitty jail was.
[QUOTE=laserguided;40588732]He is probably doing it because he realized how shitty jail was.[/QUOTE]
lol if he thinks jail is shitty...
Could anyone please explain for me how 70 injured and 12 killed equals over 160 counts of murder? I didn't follow the case too closely at the time and I AM an Australian, so I might be missing something obvious...
[QUOTE=Sobek-;40588847]Could anyone please explain for me how 70 injured and 12 killed equals over 160 counts of murder? I didn't follow the case too closely at the time and I AM an Australian, so I might be missing something obvious...[/QUOTE]
Its including attempted murder.
[QUOTE=Zacn;40587823]I was in that theater, he needs to die.[/QUOTE]
I am going to respectfully disagree. I feel that if we (as a society) are to kill others, we are no better than they are. I'm also taking into consideration FreakyMe's post. I think it is more appropriate for him to be put in a state in which he might truly understand the consequences of his actions, rather than separate him from them.
[QUOTE=areolop;40585736]In order for someone to be found criminally insane his/her lawyers have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he/she did not know what what they were doing was wrong. This is really hard to prove, especially in this case where the evidence of premeditation is overwhelming.[/QUOTE]
Just because your insane, doesn't mean you can't make plans.
[QUOTE=_Kent_;40586106]He is not showing remorse, he is trying to squirm his way out from under justice.[/QUOTE]
Care to explain how? If he's found insane he'll likely just be committed to an asylum for the rest of his life. Ignorant people need to realize the insanity plea isn't getting you out of anything.
James Holmes had no criminal record prior to this event, and he was a smart kid with a promising future in neuroscience. A few months before the shooting his grades suddenly dropped and he dropped out of school for no apparent reason. You think a sane person just suddenly gives up their future career to kill a bunch of people? You're naive if you don't think something went very, very wrong in his mind.
i'd probably rather be in prison than sit in a mental home until i died.
[QUOTE=Sobek-;40588847]Could anyone please explain for me how 70 injured and 12 killed equals over 160 counts of murder? I didn't follow the case too closely at the time and I AM an Australian, so I might be missing something obvious...[/QUOTE]
One count of attempted murder for each shot he fired.
Basically it's just a tool for the prosecution to use so even if they drop some of the charges he still gets a very harsh punishment.
[editline]10th May 2013[/editline]
Like a bargaining chip almost.
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