Flying Confederate flag ends in suspension for high school junior - Polidicks

[url]http://www.wlns.com/story/22265955/flying-confederate-flag-ends-in-suspension-for-dewitt-junior[/url] [quote]The confederate flag brings out all kinds of emotions and one student in DeWiitt, Michigan was suspended from school for flying it on his truck after he was told to take it down. But as our Nick Perreault explains, some students and parents think the school may have gone too far. Wednesday, Connor McKinnon spent the day at home instead of at school.[/quote] why are you even flying the confederate flag in michigan?

[QUOTE=YouWithTheFace.;40669824] why are you even flying the confederate flag in michigan?[/QUOTE] It has gone from being a southern thing to an overall redneck thing. I see them sometimes up here in Northeastern US in the country areas.

i can count at least 9 trucks at my high school's parking lot flying the confederate flag all day so i think this school is being a dick

Can't say I really object too much, they told him to take it down and he deliberately put it back up, and yeah it seems really dumb to be flying a CSA flag in a state like Michigan.

as much as i despise the use of the confederate flag to justify xenophobic and generally repressive ideologies by pretending its some sort of symbol of man's "will to defend their best interests," i dont think the school should have gone so far as to suspend someone a student, hell anyone, should be able to have any flag of any organization hanging on his own personal property

[QUOTE=Loriborn;40669903] a student, hell anyone, should be able to have any flag of any organization hanging on his own personal property[/QUOTE] even this? [img]https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTYiaY9YBl-_aFR7oeFl68xHrC-wuNZyZHBXZ5ORburL1v2Ixfv[/img] [editline]16th May 2013[/editline] or this? [img]http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/d/de-1933.gif[/img]

[QUOTE=Loriborn;40669903]as much as i despise the use of the confederate flag to justify xenophobic and generally repressive ideologies by pretending its some sort of symbol of man's "will to defend their best interests," i dont think the school should have gone so far as to suspend someone a student, hell anyone, should be able to have any flag of any organization hanging on his own personal property[/QUOTE] I don't usually mind them having personal symbols, but having a flagpole and a 6 foot square Confederate flag hanging off of your truck seems a bit excessive. Also: he wasn't suspended just for having the flag, they gave him a warning and a chance to take it down and he deliberately put it back up.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40669947]even this? [img]https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTYiaY9YBl-_aFR7oeFl68xHrC-wuNZyZHBXZ5ORburL1v2Ixfv[/img][/QUOTE] especially this if theyre not harming anyone, we have no right to censor their opinions simply because they are offensive or intolerant or xenophobic everyone has a right to display their opinions, and as long as they're not lynching or stealing or slandering people, there is no reason to punish them simply for flying a flag on their own property

[QUOTE=Loriborn;40669970]especially this if theyre not harming anyone, we have no right to censor their opinions simply because they are offensive or intolerant or xenophobic everyone has a right to display their opinions, and as long as they're not lynching or stealing or slandering people, there is no reason to punish them simply for flying a flag on their own property[/QUOTE] You have to admit it's a stupid thing to do tho

[QUOTE=asteroidrules;40669962]I don't usually mind them having personal symbols, but having a flagpole and a 6 foot square Confederate flag hanging off of your truck seems a bit excessive. Also: he wasn't suspended just for having the flag, they gave him a warning and a chance to take it down and he deliberately put it back up.[/QUOTE] if they suspend all kids that have any sort of flag hanging off their truck, i'd understand, but doing it simply because of the nature of the flag isn't justified

[QUOTE=AJisAwesome15;40669986]You have to admit it's a stupid thing to do tho[/QUOTE] stupid, yes should we punish it? no like i said, punish anyone for flying a flag in that manner, but dont do it simply because of the content of the flag

[QUOTE=Loriborn;40669970]especially this if theyre not harming anyone, we have no right to censor their opinions simply because they are offensive or intolerant or xenophobic everyone has a right to display their opinions, and as long as they're not lynching or stealing or slandering people, there is no reason to punish them simply for flying a flag on their own property[/QUOTE] idk i don't necessarily like the idea of a government institution censoring stuff, but if i saw a house or a car with that flag on it i would probably put a brick through the window.

automerge broken by myself [editline]16th May 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=yawmwen;40669997]idk i don't necessarily like the idea of a government institution censoring stuff, but if i saw a house or a car with that flag on it i would probably put a brick through the window.[/QUOTE] thats just your lack of self control you're perpetuating more crime than the ignorant people who have those opinions attacking someone for their ideologies isn't exactly justifiable, no matter how you try to defend it morally

of course its michigan any rural area in michigan has an abundance of confederate flags out on display, typically in the form of oversized bumperstickers on large trucks

[QUOTE=Loriborn;40669999] thats just your lack of self control you're perpetuating more crime than the ignorant people who have those opinions attacking someone for their ideologies isn't exactly justifiable, no matter how you try to defend it morally[/QUOTE] when you support an ideology of murder and genocide you are certainly perpetuating crime, or at the very least trying to do it.

No matter how dumb I think it is, I firmly believe that people should be able to fly any flag they want. It is their ideology, so they are welcome to think that way. It is a freedom of speech thing. I don't have to like what their ideology is, but I can respect that they have a right to have it.

[QUOTE=Loriborn;40669970]especially this if theyre not harming anyone, we have no right to censor their opinions simply because they are offensive or intolerant or xenophobic everyone has a right to display their opinions, and as long as they're not lynching or stealing or slandering people, there is no reason to punish them simply for flying a flag on their own property[/QUOTE] but they are hurting people by fortifying a school atmosphere in which blatant racism is deemed acceptable by the school. its the same reason you cant let kids run about school giving little white power speeches, just because it can be construed as "free speech" doesnt mean its not hurting anyone legitimately.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40670054]when you support an ideology of murder and genocide you are certainly perpetuating crime, or at the very least trying to do it.[/QUOTE] assumptions even if the person is racist and bigoted and supports the kkk, it doesnt mean they're actually going off and lynching anyone and as much as we dislike bigotry and racism, we simply should not condone vigilante "justice" against people simply because they are vocal about their (morally questionable) opinions unless you watch the person violently assault someone, there is no crime in simply waving a flag of an organization that you respect, no matter how much we despise that organization we have no right to stifle anyone's ideologies, no matter how negative, unless they outright commit an atrocity or crime against another person

imagine being a black or jewish student where other kids are walking around with confederate / nazi bullshit like it was nothing i definitely wouldnt feel comfortable around them and im white

all those redneck kids in my school just say its their southern flag, no different than a state flag

[QUOTE=Kopimi;40670087]but they are hurting people by fortifying a school atmosphere in which blatant racism is deemed acceptable by the school. its the same reason you cant let kids run about school giving little white power speeches, just because it can be construed as "free speech" doesnt mean its not hurting anyone legitimately.[/QUOTE] theyre not deeming racism acceptable, theyre saying that you can believe in anything you want because youre a human being and we have that ability there is a vast difference between giving hate speeches and waving the flag of an organization or event that you support unless that flag is making minorities feel uncomfortable, which im sure its not, (if someone actually complained then i would understand) then there is no actual victim of the flag being flown these are also highschoolers, they experience more racism in music and television than they are going to experience from seeing a confederate flag on someone's truck [editline]16th May 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Kopimi;40670091]imagine being a black or jewish student where other kids are walking around with confederate / nazi bullshit like it was nothing i definitely wouldnt feel comfortable around them and im white[/QUOTE] if that was the case then sure, but this is one incident of someone having a flag on their car not paramount to a school full of racism and bigotry hell, we cant even assume the kid was racist for all we know he's just another stupid "the south shall rise again" follower, and while its pretty easy to imagine he has racist attitudes, we cannot simply assume again, if he were actually spouting racial slurs and lynching someone, totally different this isnt the classroom, this is his truck in a parking lot

[QUOTE=Loriborn;40670125]theyre not deeming racism acceptable, theyre saying that you can believe in anything you want because youre a human being and we have that ability there is a vast difference between giving hate speeches and waving the flag of an organization or event that you support unless that flag is making minorities feel uncomfortable, which im sure its not, (if someone actually complained then i would understand) then there is no actual victim of the flag being flown these are also highschoolers, they experience more racism in music and television than they are going to experience from seeing a confederate flag on someone's truck[/QUOTE] when you're waving flag in support of an organization known for that hate speech and violence (and genocide) it's a pretty fair comparison i would say. and yes by the administration allowing students to openly wave around nazi or confederate flags they are showing either apathy or support for racism in their schools, neither of which are remotely acceptable [editline]16th May 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Loriborn;40670125]if that was the case then sure, but this is one incident of someone having a flag on their car not paramount to a school full of racism and bigotry hell, we cant even assume the kid was racist for all we know he's just another stupid "the south shall rise again" follower, and while its pretty easy to imagine he has racist attitudes, we cannot simply assume again, if he were actually spouting racial slurs and lynching someone, totally different this isnt the classroom, this is his truck in a parking lot[/QUOTE] the truck i can understand i was more just disagreeing with the general notion that open support of hate speech in schools is okay because of freedom of speech. tbh i cant say im bothered that they suspended him for it but i wouldn't be upset if they didn't either

[QUOTE=SKEEA;40670082]No matter how dumb I think it is, I firmly believe that people should be able to fly any flag they want. It is their ideology, so they are welcome to think that way. It is a freedom of speech thing. I don't have to like what their ideology is, but I can respect that they have a right to have it.[/QUOTE] That being said, respecting someone's beliefs does not mean you shouldn't question them. You should be able to spout your ideology all you want, just don't be surprised when people call you an ignorant/racist fuck because of it.

This is at a school. You don't get to wave a flag of racism at a public institution that other races attend.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;40670091]imagine being a black or jewish student where other kids are walking around with confederate / nazi bullshit like it was nothing i definitely wouldnt feel comfortable around them and im white[/QUOTE] Happened all the time at my school, no black kids complained about it, nor did anyone really. I think most people can understand that the flag has changed as a symbol, it's not just a big sign that means "Fuck those nigger folks!!!11" anymore.

[QUOTE=evilweazel;40670212]Happened all the time at my school, no black kids complained about it, nor did anyone really. I think most people can understand that the flag has changed as a symbol, it's not just a big sign that means "Fuck those nigger folks!!!11" anymore.[/QUOTE] cool the fact that your school had stupid children flying a flag with a heavy history of racial discrimination and violence of the not so distant past doesn't mean its okay

[QUOTE=Kopimi;40670178]when you're waving flag in support of an organization known for that hate speech and violence (and genocide) it's a pretty fair comparison i would say. and yes by the administration allowing students to openly wave around nazi or confederate flags they are showing either apathy or support for racism in their schools, neither of which are remotely acceptable [editline]16th May 2013[/editline] the truck i can understand i was more just disagreeing with the general notion that open support of hate speech in schools is okay because of freedom of speech. tbh i cant say im bothered that they suspended him for it but i wouldn't be upset if they didn't either[/QUOTE] We can't deep acceptability Everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how much we disagree or personally despise it When we begin censoring people and saying what's right and wrong on a governmental level, we start going down a pretty scary path I'm not justifying xenophobia or racism, but a flag on a truck is by no means going to make students uncomfortable unless thy spend their time in the parking lot If the kid was reciting hate speeches in class or insulting minorities, fine, that's a direct harm to someone, but he shouldn't be punished because a flag representing his ideology makes someone uncomfortable If we start punishing people for having opinions that make people uncomfortable, everyone would be guilty, and unless he was directly harming someone else, say, verbally or physically, there is no justification to say "your opinion is wrong," no matter how much we believe it dogmatic or intolerant

[QUOTE=Loriborn;40670125] there is a vast difference between giving hate speeches and waving the flag of an organization or event that you support[/QUOTE] I suppose this is why Stormfront members go around with Swatztikas. Just a harmless bit of fun. Show it to a Jewish kid while grinning and touching yourself, just a harmless bit of fun.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;40670232]cool the fact that your school had stupid children flying a flag with a heavy history of racial discrimination and violence of the not so distant past doesn't mean its okay[/QUOTE] Ehhh, just saying. We had a lot of minorities and no one seemed to be offended by it, I just figured most people realized it doesn't mean what it used to anymore.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;40670087]but they are hurting people by fortifying a school atmosphere in which blatant racism is deemed acceptable by the school. its the same reason you cant let kids run about school giving little white power speeches, just because it can be construed as "free speech" doesnt mean its not hurting anyone legitimately.[/QUOTE] But it's not hurting anyone. How is it hurting people?