• Ukraine on brink of 'full-scale war' with Russia, says President Poroshenko
    103 replies, posted
[img]http://imgkk.com/i/aa7x.jpg[/img] [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28997946[/url] [quote]Ukraine's president has said his country is "close to a point of no return - full scale-war". Petro Poroshenko was speaking in Brussels, where he said a meeting of EU leaders had agreed to prepare more sanctions against Russia. EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton earlier accused Russia of "direct aggression" in eastern Ukraine. Russia denies that its forces are backing rebels, who have been gaining ground on Ukrainian forces. Mr Poroshenko said Ukraine was a victim of "military aggression and terror". He said: "I think that we are very close to the point of no return. Point of no return is full-scale war. "Any offensive action which would be undertaken [by Russia]... would be a point of no return. And that's why we undertake enormous efforts to stop that." ... As she arrived at the talks in Brussels, Lithuanian President Dalia Grybauskaite said Russia was "practically in a war against Europe". She said: "We need to support Ukraine, and send military materials to help Ukraine defend itself. Today Ukraine is fighting a war on behalf of all Europe." UK Prime Minister David Cameron said the EU faced "a completely unacceptable situation of having Russian troops on Ukrainian soil. Consequences must follow if that situation continues". French President Francois Hollande said the Ukraine crisis was the biggest since the end of the Cold War. He said: "What's happening in Ukraine is so serious that the European Council will be obliged to react by increasing the level of sanctions if things remain as they are." However, the BBC's Chris Morris in Brussels says there are still divisions within the EU on how to deal with the Ukraine situation. Finnish Prime Minister Alexander Stubb said the "jury is still out" on whether sanctions had worked, adding: "We need to find a ceasefire, a peace plan."[/quote]
[QUOTE]Today Ukraine is fighting a war on behalf of all Europe.[/QUOTE] No pressure though.
He speaks english pretty good for Ukrainian. [QUOTE=Megadave;45846751]No pressure though.[/QUOTE] Ukraine is fighting the very thing many european countries were trying to avoid after World War 2. That is the forceful integration into Russia.
[quote]He said: "What's happening in Ukraine is so serious that the European Council will be obliged to react by [b]increasing the level of sanctions[/b] if things remain as they are."[/quote] [img]http://media.cagle.com/78/2014/03/07/145396_600.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;45846794][img]http://media.cagle.com/78/2014/03/07/145396_600.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] Hey man, paper cuts hurt!
Poroshenko is a piece of shit liar. As soon as the Malaysian plane went down, he instantly blamed Russia. Then of course the world believed him, and Obama even agreed. We still don't have proof of who did it. Point is, Poroshenko spurts shit out of his mouth and everybody believes him.
[quote]Finnish Prime Minister Alexander Stubb said the "jury is still out" on whether or not sanctions had worked, adding: "We need to find a ceasefire, a peace plan."[/quote] Good example of politician speak: all talk and no substance. The answer is no; until sanctions force the Russians to get the fuck out of the Ukraine entirely, they have not worked. And guess what? Economic sanctions are not going to force the Russians out of the Ukraine. Guns, bombs, tanks and an arsenal of weaponry, fanatical hatred, and unwavering acts of remorseless violence and cruelty towards them are what will force them out.
[QUOTE=GentlemanLexi;45846848]he instantly blamed Russia.[/QUOTE] I don't recall him blaming Russia for shooting mh17 down.
[QUOTE=Govna;45846860]Good example of politician speak: all talk and no substance. The answer is no; until sanctions force the Russians to get the fuck out of the Ukraine entirely, they have not worked. And guess what? Economic sanctions are not going to force the Russians out of the Ukraine. Guns, bombs, tanks and an arsenal of weaponry, fanatical hatred, and unwavering acts of remorseless violence and cruelty towards them are what will force them out.[/QUOTE] Hitler thought "Guns, bombs, tanks and an arsenal of weaponry, fanatical hatred, and unwavering acts of remorseless violence and cruelty" would destroy the Soviet Union. A few years later Russian troops were marching down the streets of Berlin carrying full-sized portraits of Stalin.
We aren't living in the 30-40's Rufus, stop comparing everything to Nazi Germany, holy crap
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;45846893]We aren't living in the 30-40's Rufus, stop comparing everything to Nazi Germany, holy crap[/QUOTE] Yeah lets stop with that because the [i]new cool thing[/i] is to compare it to Israel.
[QUOTE=WhollyRufus;45846883]Hitler thought "Guns, bombs, tanks and an arsenal of weaponry, fanatical hatred, and unwavering acts of remorseless violence and cruelty" would destroy the Soviet Union. A few years later Russian troops were marching down the streets of Berlin carrying full-sized portraits of Stalin.[/QUOTE] Not before the Germans and their allies slaughtered 24 million of them. All things considered, they didn't do too bad.
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;45846794][img]http://media.cagle.com/78/2014/03/07/145396_600.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] And so the rest of the world sits back basically throwing sanctions that may harm Russia's economy temporarily in the short term, but won't do much if they expand their control and gain direct influence over the region's oil flow; all the while we mostly ignore Ukraine's pleas for aid, because no one wants to tussle with Russia and are practically willing to throw Ukraine under the bus so that Russia doesn't get trigger-happy with their aggression towards others.
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;45846893]We aren't living in the 30-40's Rufus, stop comparing everything to Nazi Germany, holy crap[/QUOTE] I still think it's important to bring up how the West has a habit of dangerously overestimating the Slavic peoples. And it Hitler or not, I can't really abide "acts of remorseless violence and cruelty" against a people who have suffered more than enough already. [QUOTE=Govna;45846918]Not before the Germans and their allies slaughtered 24 million of them. All things considered, they didn't do too bad.[/QUOTE] Holy shit...
[QUOTE=Aide;45846911]Yeah lets stop with that because the [i]new cool thing[/i] is to compare it to Israel.[/QUOTE] That reminds me... There were in my opinion, three main victims of World War II: Russians, Chinese and Jews. if you think about it, two out of those three have to put up with a great deal of shit today: The Russian's paid for their victory in huge amounts of blood, yet they have lost most of the territory they gained from that victory to the machinations of the west, who didn't have to pay nearly as steep a price. I don't need to explain what the Jews went through, but to this day the only Jewish state has almost every attempt to defend itself second guessed by so many people, and is under continual pressure to shrink it's borders. No justice man... At least the Chinese are doing alright, mostly.
[QUOTE=WhollyRufus;45847046]That reminds me... There were in my opinion, three main victims of World War II: Russians, Chinese and Jews. if you think about it, two out of those three have to put up with a great deal of shit today: The Russian's paid for their victory in huge amounts of blood, yet they have lost most of the territory they gained from that victory to the machinations of the west, who didn't have to pay nearly as steep a price. I don't need to explain what the Jews went through, but to this day the only Jewish state has almost every attempt to defend itself second guessed by so many people, and is under continual pressure to shrink it's borders. No justice man... At least the Chinese are doing alright, mostly.[/QUOTE] Lost territory? They expanded their lands into Europe and forced almost all of Eastern Europe in to becoming their satellite states. And what "machinations of the west" are you talking about?
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;45847072]Lost territory? They expanded their lands into Europe and forced almost all of Eastern Europe in to becoming their satellite states. And what "machinations of the west" are you talking about?[/QUOTE] The Germans attacked them in a genocidal war of extermination, the Russians fought back and won, in the process they managed to extend a sphere of influence across Eastern Europe. The Americans kept the bit they fought in and the Russians kept theirs. By western machinations I refer to the Cold War. Try watching [I]Oliver Stone's Untold History of the United States[/I] and tell me the Americans were the obvious good guys of that conflict.
[QUOTE=WhollyRufus;45847121]The Germans attacked them in a genocidal war of extermination, the Russians fought back and won, in the process they managed to extend a sphere of influence across Eastern Europe. The Americans kept the bit they fought in and the Russians kept theirs. By western machinations I refer to the Cold War. Try watching [I]Oliver Stone's Untold History of the United States[/I] and tell me the Americans were the obvious good guys of that conflict.[/QUOTE] You're saying the USSR's failed economic ideology that caused its eventual break up in 1991 was due to the west somehow?
[QUOTE=WhollyRufus;45847121]The Germans attacked them in a genocidal war of extermination, the Russians fought back and won, in the process they managed to extend a sphere of influence across Eastern Europe. The Americans kept the bit they fought in and the Russians kept theirs. By western machinations I refer to the Cold War. Try watching [I]Oliver Stone's Untold History of the United States[/I] and tell me the Americans were the obvious good guys of that conflict.[/QUOTE] It's almost like you've chosen to completely ignore Stalin and how his totalitarian regime did an even better job of killing his own people than the Germans.
[QUOTE=WhollyRufus;45847121]By western machinations I refer to the Cold War. Try watching [I]Oliver Stone's Untold History of the United States[/I] and tell me the Americans were the obvious good guys of that conflict.[/QUOTE] There were no obvious good or bad guys. The cold war was based on mutual paranoia and misunderstandings and fueled by two regimes who tried to secure their own safety at the expense of the other, because it was the only reasonable option for both of them in their state of mind. It's like you missed an entire school of historians. [QUOTE=WhollyRufus;45847329]The Americans pulled so much dastardly shit to win to win the Cold War, supporting the Mujaheddin (AlQueda) in Afghanistan and the Contras (fascist terrorists) in Latin America. Seriously, watch Oliver Stone's stuff, America pulled so much fucked up shit because they were afraid the Soviets would take over the world. Don't get me wrong; I don't like Communism, and it probably contributed somewhat, but I don't think Russia should have surrendered it's East European sphere or let go of any territory. I would be happy if Russia abandoned Communism whilst still maintaining the geopolitical power of the Soviet Union. America needs a counterbalance, we can't have one all-powerful superpower reigning over the world, with no one able to impose consequences on it. Such a super-powerful entity's leadership would go mad with power, as is happening now.[/QUOTE] Holy shit, what? Leave the population of Europe out of Russia's sphere, thank you very much. America doesn't need a counterbalance, it needs a shift in its political scene to make it more accountable towards its own citizens and the outside world, but that's a discussion that's irrelevant right now.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;45847142]You're saying the USSR's failed economic ideology that caused its eventual break up in 1991 was due to the west somehow?[/QUOTE] The Americans pulled so much dastardly shit to win to win the Cold War, supporting the Mujaheddin (AlQueda) in Afghanistan and the Contras (fascist terrorists) in Latin America. Seriously, watch Oliver Stone's stuff, America pulled so much fucked up shit because they were afraid the Soviets would take over the world. Don't get me wrong; I don't like Communism, and it probably contributed somewhat, but I don't think Russia should have surrendered it's East European sphere or let go of any territory. I would be happy if Russia abandoned Communism whilst still maintaining the geopolitical power of the Soviet Union. America needs a counterbalance, we can't have one all-powerful superpower reigning over the world, with no one able to impose consequences on it. Such a super-powerful entity's leadership would go mad with power, as is happening now.
[QUOTE=WhollyRufus;45847329]The Americans pulled so much dastardly shit to win to win the Cold War, supporting the Mujaheddin (AlQueda) in Afghanistan and the Contras (fascist terrorists) in Latin America. Seriously, watch Oliver Stone's stuff, America pulled so much fucked up shit because they were afraid the Soviets would take over the world. Don't get me wrong; I don't like Communism, and it probably contributed somewhat, but I don't think Russia should have surrendered it's East European sphere or let go of any territory. I would be happy if Russia abandoned Communism whilst still maintaining the geopolitical power of the Soviet Union. America needs a counterbalance, we can't have one all-powerful superpower reigning over the world, with no one able to impose consequences on it. Such a super-powerful entity's leadership would go mad with power, as is happening now.[/QUOTE] Yes because the Cuban Missile Crisis is definitely something we need Russia re-enacting. [editline]Edited: [/editline] To make my point more clear: Russia's response to the aftermath of the Suez crisis when we deployed ballistic missiles was for them to also deploy nuclear missiles in Cuba. That's not exactly a great scenario for someone who just warned Western powers they are capable of a nuclear assault.
[QUOTE=WhollyRufus;45847329] Don't get me wrong; I don't like Communism, and it probably contributed somewhat, but I don't think Russia should have surrendered it's East European sphere or let go of any territory. I would be happy if Russia abandoned Communism whilst still maintaining the geopolitical power of the Soviet Union. [/QUOTE] Sorry that our independence is such a burden to you. We'll make sure not to resist Russian oppression the next time they expand their sphere of influence here.
Shit like this is why I can't have have awesome space battles in real life. Fuckers, stop fighting till we own a bunch of other planets and have FTL. Then we can have all the space wars we could ever want.
[QUOTE=WhollyRufus;45847329]The Americans pulled so much dastardly shit to win to win the Cold War, supporting the Mujaheddin (AlQueda) in Afghanistan and the Contras (fascist terrorists) in Latin America. Seriously, watch Oliver Stone's stuff, America pulled so much fucked up shit because they were afraid the Soviets would take over the world. Don't get me wrong; I don't like Communism, and it probably contributed somewhat, but I don't think Russia should have surrendered it's East European sphere or let go of any territory. I would be happy if Russia abandoned Communism whilst still maintaining the geopolitical power of the Soviet Union. America needs a counterbalance, we can't have one all-powerful superpower reigning over the world, with no one able to impose consequences on it. Such a super-powerful entity's leadership would go mad with power, as is happening now.[/QUOTE]If the only way to counterbalance the US is for Russia to annex us countries unfortunate enough to neighbour them (protip: it isn't), they can fuck right off and die in mediocrity. It's not like the only continents in existence are North America and Europe.
[QUOTE=WhollyRufus;45847329] but I don't think Russia should have surrendered it's East European sphere or let go of any territory.[/QUOTE] You're crazy. [QUOTE=WhollyRufus;45847329]America needs a counterbalance, we can't have one all-powerful superpower reigning over the world, with no one able to impose consequences on it. Such a super-powerful entity's leadership would go mad with power, as is happening now.[/quote] You don't "counterbalance" something perceived shitty with something worse. America's power stems from the cooperation of many other nations. [QUOTE=WhollyRufus;45846883]Hitler thought "Guns, bombs, tanks and an arsenal of weaponry, fanatical hatred, and unwavering acts of remorseless violence and cruelty" would destroy the Soviet Union. A few years later Russian troops were marching down the streets of Berlin carrying full-sized portraits of Stalin.[/QUOTE] "carrying full-sized portraits of Stalin" What a supplementary detail to add something you'd expect to hear from a boastful and proud nationalist.
I'm sensing another Georgia.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;45847559]You don't "counterbalance" something perceived shitty with something worse. America's power stems from the cooperation of many other nations.[/QUOTE] On the 15th of February 2003, what is claimed to be one of the largest demonstrations in British history took place against the Iraq War. One of the organizations that organized it was the Stop the War Coalition. This organization is one of Britain's largest anti-war organizations. It has only found one military intervention in the 21st Century to be justified: Russia's annexation of the Crimea. Doesn't that say something? It's a testament to the shameful ineptitude of US foreign policy that one of Britain's most high-profile anti-war organizations finds more moral justification for military action taken by a foreign power than any of taken by the West. [QUOTE=Trebgarta;45847617]It is not like Western Europe is American sattelite either.[/QUOTE] That's arguable.
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;45846794][img]http://media.cagle.com/78/2014/03/07/145396_600.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] Jokes aside at least we're trying anything that doesn't start a possible WWIII
[QUOTE=WhollyRufus;45847679]On the 15th of February 2003, what is claimed to be one of the largest demonstrations in British history took place against the Iraq War. One of the organizations that organized it was the Stop the War Coalition. This organization is one of Britain's largest anti-war organizations. It has only found one military intervention in the 21st Century to be justified: Russia's annexation of the Crimea. Doesn't that say something? It's a testament to the shameful ineptitude of US foreign policy that one of Britain's most high-profile anti-war organizations finds more moral justification for military action taken by a foreign power than any of taken by the West. [/quote] U.S. foreign policy is keeping us from mutually assured destruction by fighting this as a proxy war. God forbid we stay out of DEFCON 1. Not to mention the U.S. has significantly slashed military funding recently after the war in the middle east. [QUOTE=WhollyRufus;45847679]That's arguable.[/QUOTE] How?
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