US State Department fought to keep Haitian wages at $0.31/hr so Hanes and Levi didn't have to pay mo
38 replies, posted
[quote]A Wikileaks post published on The Nation shows that the Obama Administration fought to keep Haitian wages at 31 cents an hour.
It started when Haiti passed a law two years ago raising its minimum wage to 61 cents an hour. According to an embassy cable:
[quote]This infuriated American corporations like Hanes and Levi Strauss that pay Haitians slave wages to sew their clothes. They said they would only fork over a seven-cent-an-hour increase, and they got the State Department involved. The U.S. ambassador put pressure on Haiti’s president, who duly carved out a $3 a day minimum wage for textile companies (the U.S. minimum wage, which itself is very low, works out to $58 a day).
Haiti has about 25,000 garment workers. If you paid each of them $2 a day more, it would cost their employers $50,000 per working day, or about $12.5 million a year ... As of last year Hanes had 3,200 Haitians making t-shirts for it. Paying each of them two bucks a day more would cost it about $1.6 million a year. Hanesbrands Incorporated made $211 million on $4.3 billion in sales last year.[/quote]
Thanks to U.S. intervention, the minimum was raised only to 31 cents.[/quote]
[url=http://www.businessinsider.com/wikileaks-haiti-minimum-wage-the-nation-2011-6]Business Insider[/url]
[img]http://www.dadychery.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/HaitiAssemblyWorkers.jpg[/img]
Now what should happen is they identify every individual involved in this and fire their asses, but we all know that won't happen. Cases like this are opportunities to weed out corruption one asshole at a time, but instead the agency/department takes the heat as a hole and it's business as usual after a few weeks at most.
We really need some kind of a world organization that has actual power to fine companies that do shit like this too.
isn't capitalism great
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;44364199]isn't capitalism great[/QUOTE]
Saying this in this instance would be like looking at North Korea and saying "isn't communism great"
[QUOTE=frozensoda;44364132]Now what should happen is they identify every individual involved in this and fire their asses, but we all know that won't happen. Cases like this are opportunities to weed out corruption one asshole at a time, but instead the agency/department takes the heat as a hole and it's business as usual after a few weeks at most.
We really need some kind of a world organization that has actual power to fine companies that do shit like this too.[/QUOTE]
cases like this discredit our country, and create more anti-americanism
[QUOTE=Teddybeer;44364253]Juche[/QUOTE]
whatever you get the point, I didn't want to use stalin's Russia as an example for obvious reasons.
[QUOTE=frozensoda;44364265]whatever you get the point, I didn't want to use stalin's Russia as an example for obvious reasons.[/QUOTE]
That obvious reason being that Stalin's Russia wasn't actually communist?
[QUOTE=frozensoda;44364225]Saying this in this instance would be like looking at North Korea and saying "isn't communism great"[/QUOTE]
Uh North Korea isn't communist so unless you're implying the US is not capitalist this doesn't make any sense.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;44364310]Uh North Korea isn't communist so unless you're implying the US is not capitalist this doesn't make any sense.[/QUOTE]
you're focusing on the wrong part of the sentence let me fix it so you can't do that any more, and I feel like you're insulting both of our intelligence by doing this. You know what my point was, you can't blame capitalism for what a couple of corrupt individuals do.
Saying "isn't capitalism great" in this instance is like looking at any economic system which has had even a single case of abuse and saying "isn't (this economic system) great"
arguing about the un-important specific example does not disprove my point. I don't know a lot about the history of communism, but I do know that you can't just call the entire system of capitalism a failure because of a single very specific case where a few people abused the system.
[QUOTE=frozensoda;44364132]We really need some kind of a world organization that has actual power to fine companies that do shit like this too.[/QUOTE]
A Guild of Universal Welfare? Sounds amazing, but you'd need some sort of amazingly generous Illuminati super-banker for that kinda thing, and knowing this world's luck the closest thing we'll ever get to a Guild of Universal Welfare is a Guild of Calamitous Intent.
We get it, he used the wrong word/generalization to refer to NK/USSR.
He's saying that American capitalism is a corrupted form of capitalism, something that is libertarian nonsense.
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];44364408']We get it, he used the wrong word/generalization to refer to NK/USSR.
[B]He's saying that American capitalism is a corrupted form of capitalism, something that is libertarian nonsense[/B].[/QUOTE]
nope that's not what I'm saying strike 3 for FP. I'm saying that the people who did this are corrupt. I'm saying that you can draw exactly zero conclusions from this case of abuse about capitalism as a whole.
This seems counterproductive, shouldn't they fight for increased wages in other countries so there's less incentive to move businesses out of the US?
Oh my mistake this isn't about what's best for the general public but rather what's best for big business
Unfortunately crony-capitalism can be a product of capitalism, but not all capitalism is crony-capitalism. This is the result when government and big business decide to get in bed together.
[QUOTE=UziXxX;44364465]Unfortunately crony-capitalism can be a product of capitalism, but not all capitalism is crony-capitalism. This is the result when government and big business decide to get in bed together.[/QUOTE]
The current system is basically crony capitalism, skirting the borders of legal and illegal. As per usual, nothing will happen. Wage slavery is an inherent thing that's going to happen if you let it get as close to laissez-faire as it is in some points.
[QUOTE=frozensoda;44364420]nope that's not what I'm saying strike 3 for FP. I'm saying that the people who did this are corrupt. I'm saying that you can draw exactly zero conclusions from this case of abuse about capitalism as a whole.[/QUOTE]
Hey how about we use an economic system that doesn't allow "a few corrupt people" (it's alot more than that) to completely fuck over the lives of the lower classes?
[quote]I'm saying that you can draw exactly zero conclusions from this case of abuse about capitalism as a whole.[/quote]
What? How not? You can draw the conclusion from this and many other cases that capitalism rewards corruption and treating workers like shit in the name of profit. That's fucking intrinsic to the system dude.
[QUOTE=frozensoda;44364225]Saying this in this instance would be like looking at North Korea and saying "isn't communism great"[/QUOTE]
With all the shit going on there at least they keep it to themselves and don't enforce stuff like slave labor around the world.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;44364482]Hey about we use an economic system that doesn't allow "a few corrupt people" (it's alot more than that) to completely fuck over the lives of the lower classes?
What? How not? You can draw the conclusion from this and many other cases that capitalism rewards corruption and treating workers like shit in the name of profit. That's fucking intrinsic to the system dude.[/QUOTE]
Nope, that's intrinsic to corrupt people, not the system itself. Incidentally, no matter what system you choose the same thing is gonna cause the same problems.
saying that is like saying that craigslist directly supports human trafficking because some people use it for prostitution, and a small number of those prostitutes are from the human sex trade.
also, if you have the answer to a corruption-free econimic system, why haven't you said anything. We've been waiting for you for tens of thousands of years oh great messiah who bring utopia.
[QUOTE=frozensoda;44364420]nope that's not what I'm saying strike 3 for FP. I'm saying that the people who did this are corrupt. I'm saying that you can draw exactly zero conclusions from this case of abuse about capitalism as a whole.[/QUOTE]
Except that this has been the norm and not the exception.
We supported Coke when it hired neo-fascist mercenaries for protecting its corporate officers who were previously accused of acting as death squads in the Colombian countryside against left-leaning politicos and unionists. We also turned a blind eye when Coke assassinated labor leaders.
Dutch Royal Shell (Shell gas) used oil money to fund warring militias in Nigeria and directly paid the Nigerian government to use helicopters and Nigerian armed forces to raid oil villages in revolt against its slave-like labor practices.
Do we need to go into Foxconn, who under American corporate approval uses labor tactics that would look more at home in 1910s Chicago packingyards than in the 21st century, creating conditions wherein they needed to put nets on their buildings to prevent suicides? The Chinese government is complicit in this and makes special accommodations for western companies leasing products from Chinese manufacturers.
You know the term Banana Republic? Know where that comes from? American business interests, primarily companies like Dole and Chiquita, extorting governments, rebel groups, militias, and paramilitaries to enforce slave-like standards of living and control central and South American economies. Funny story is that it was actually the Dole corporation that overthrew the government of Hawaii and lead to its acquisition, begrudgingly, by the US.
Nestle until recently has employed cocoa plantations in West Africa that have used child slave labor, or outsourced child labor to their plantations, many of the children being abducted by militia groups form neighboring countries. The workers, including children, would handle machetes, had no representation, and would work with very little food or water out in the African heat chopping and sorting cocoa products.
Wal-Mart was the primary income for the factory that collapsed last year in Bangladesh killing a thousand, which, by the way, until recently had the lowest minimum wage in the world, kept there by the government of that nation to accommodate American business interests.
American and EU governments established with the Jamaican government free trade zones and selective embargoes of banana and garments from Jamaica in order to secure those markets for American companies.
When NAFTA was signed, Mexico attacked the minimum wage, crushed unions, seized indigenous and small private land lots, and provided massive tax breaks for American corporations that would do manual and manufacturing labor there. This backfired when China undercut the market in the late 90s and early 2000s, leading to the immigration problems beginning then as well as creating giant economic vacuums that the cartels filled. These two issue- the 2000s illegal immigration wave and the cartel empowerment in Mexico, are directly tied to the initial failure of NAFTA in Mexico.
There's numerous other examples of this throughout history. Governments in capitalist economies have no problem aiding their economic financiers at the expense of workers.
[QUOTE=Teddybeer;44364253]Juche[/QUOTE]
I always find it funny to see how people who use the no true scotsman for Russia.
Like, if Stalin held all the power alone...
Guess what, nobody gets to have so much power alone. You must have a group behind you
Or like if Stalin lived until 1991....
For fuck's sake.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;44364199]isn't capitalism great[/QUOTE]
what sort of shit snipe is this?
[editline]26th March 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;44364310]Uh North Korea isn't communist so unless you're implying the US is not capitalist this doesn't make any sense.[/QUOTE]
North Korea is an example of the end result of Communism, while South Korea is an example of the end result of Capitalism. Both were created as puppet states of their respective spheres.
Make of that what you will.
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];44364750']Except that this has been the norm and not the exception.
We supported Coke when it hired neo-fascist mercenaries for protecting its corporate officers who were previously accused of acting as death squads in the Colombian countryside against left-leaning politicos and unionists. We also turned a blind eye when Coke assassinated labor leaders.
Dutch Royal Shell (Shell gas) used oil money to fund warring militias in Nigeria and directly paid the Nigerian government to use helicopters and Nigerian armed forces to raid oil villages in revolt against its slave-like labor practices.
Do we need to go into Foxconn, who under American corporate approval uses labor tactics that would look more at home in 1910s Chicago packingyards than in the 21st century, creating conditions wherein they needed to put nets on their buildings to prevent suicides? The Chinese government is complicit in this and makes special accommodations for western companies leasing products from Chinese manufacturers.
You know the term Banana Republic? Know where that comes from? American business interests, primarily companies like Dole and Chiquita, extorting governments, rebel groups, militias, and paramilitaries to enforce slave-like standards of living and control central and South American economies. Funny story is that it was actually the Dole corporation that overthrew the government of Hawaii and lead to its acquisition, begrudgingly, by the US.
Nestle until recently has employed cocoa plantations in West Africa that have used child slave labor, or outsourced child labor to their plantations, many of the children being abducted by militia groups form neighboring countries. The workers, including children, would handle machetes, had no representation, and would work with very little food or water out in the African heat chopping and sorting cocoa products.
Wal-Mart was the primary income for the factory that collapsed last year in Bangladesh killing a thousand, which, by the way, until recently had the lowest minimum wage in the world, kept there by the government of that nation to accommodate American business interests.
American and EU governments established with the Jamaican government free trade zones and selective embargoes of banana and garments from Jamaica in order to secure those markets for American companies.
When NAFTA was signed, Mexico attacked the minimum wage, crushed unions, seized indigenous and small private land lots, and provided massive tax breaks for American corporations that would do manual and manufacturing labor there. This backfired when China undercut the market in the late 90s and early 2000s, leading to the immigration problems beginning then as well as creating giant economic vacuums that the cartels filled. These two issue- the 2000s illegal immigration wave and the cartel empowerment in Mexico, are directly tied to the initial failure of NAFTA in Mexico.
There's numerous other examples of this throughout history. Governments in capitalist economies have no problem aiding their economic financiers at the expense of workers.[/QUOTE]
you can give me a million examples and it still doesn't change the fact that the problem is corrupt people not a bad system. None of that says "capitalism is bad" it all says "people are bad" Show me a wikipedia article that says corruption is a feature of capitalism and I'll not post another thing. Those things are a symptom of unchecked corruption in our system, and I really don't think that any system is immune to it. Still, posting examples of corruption != evidence against the system itself.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;44364482]Hey how about we use an economic system that doesn't allow "a few corrupt people" (it's alot more than that) to completely fuck over the lives of the lower classes?
What? How not? You can draw the conclusion from this and many other cases that capitalism rewards corruption and treating workers like shit in the name of profit. That's fucking intrinsic to the system dude.[/QUOTE]
You're also like, forgetting the many examples of corruption within Socialist and Communist countries.
The whole Gulag system was built upon the backs of millions of slaves, and most of these countries happily partook in genocide just as much as any Capitalist country has.
[QUOTE=frozensoda;44365070]you can give me a million examples and it still doesn't change the fact that the problem is corrupt people not a bad system. None of that says "capitalism is bad" it all says "people are bad" Show me a wikipedia article that says corruption is a feature of capitalism and I'll not post another thing. Those things are a symptom of unchecked corruption in our system, and I really don't think that any system is immune to it. Still, posting examples of corruption != evidence against the system itself.[/QUOTE]
Except that the motivating factor that makes capitalist markets work- self interest, greed- are the same motivating factors for these sorts of actions. The factor that contributes the most towards success in a capitalist market and the drive for someone seeking benefit from that market is also the prime motivating factor behind 'corruption' and unethical practices.
[editline]26th March 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44365130]You're also like, forgetting the many examples of corruption within Socialist and Communist countries.
The whole Gulag system was built upon the backs of millions of slaves, and most of these countries happily partook in genocide just as much as any Capitalist country has.[/QUOTE]
State capitalism yo
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];44365139']Except that the motivating factor that makes capitalist markets work- self interest, greed- are the same motivating factors for these sorts of actions. The factor that contributes the most towards success in a capitalist market and the drive for someone seeking benefit from that market is also the prime motivating factor behind 'corruption' and unethical practices.
[editline]26th March 2014[/editline]
State capitalism yo[/QUOTE]
Then I detest the countries ruled by Communist parties in that case.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44365308]Then I detest the countries ruled by Communist parties in that case.[/QUOTE]
Fair enough, so do I.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;44364482]What? How not? You can draw the conclusion from this and many other cases that capitalism rewards corruption and treating workers like shit in the name of profit. That's fucking intrinsic to the system dude.[/QUOTE]
Just introduce labour reforms and continue letting people make money.
Who gives a shit if its capitalist or communist or not.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44365325]Just introduce labour reforms and continue letting people make money.
Who gives a shit if its capitalist or communist or not.[/QUOTE]
me
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];44365334']me[/QUOTE]
Whenever a cat is black or white makes no difference to its mouse catching abilities.
Nothing is True Capitalism. Nothing is True Communism. Both are physically impossible as they require limited or no government, which is a myth. You cannot promote limited government in capitalism, because you would need to regulates things to prevent mass-depletion of resources and enact control measures regarding currency. You cannot promote limited government in communism, because you'd end up with a problem where certain people would not benefit the commune, and if they had a greater amount of land under their control, you'd have to form a revolutionary front against them.
What does exist is a melting pot of ideas and practices that when stirred correctly, and give enough spices of life, can create an amazing soup. Order exists by making everyone happy to a certain degree, and allowing them to practice their concepts and beliefs, so long as they don't cause to much damage to others. When I see what my State Department has done, I am fucking sickened, even as someone who has grudges with the current minimum-wage concept, their is no excuse for denying workers a decent pay for their hard work, and in the case with these factories, the use of manual labor to manufacture items warrants far more pay then is being given.
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