Trump renews threat to scrap NAFTA going into next round of talks - Polidicks

[quote]WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump renewed his threat to scrap NAFTA and ripped on trading partners Canada and Mexico in a tweet early on Sunday, days before the three countries were scheduled to hold a second round of negotiations on rewriting the 23-year-old agreement. “We are in the NAFTA (worst trade deal ever made) renegotiation process with Mexico & Canada. Both being very difficult, may have to terminate?” he wrote. Trump, a Republican, promised during his campaign to overhaul or eliminate the North American Free Trade Agreement, which he cast as killing jobs and exacerbating the U.S. deficit, and to adopt a more protectionist stance for trade generally.[/quote] [url]https://www.reuters.com/article/us-trade-nafta-idUSKCN1B70NA?il=0[/url]

Isn't US like... hugely dependent on NAFTA? Don't they also have the best position in it?

[QUOTE=Dom Pyroshark;52618966]Isn't US like... hugely dependent on NAFTA? Don't they also have the best position in it?[/QUOTE] I get an unresearched feeling that Trump doesn't get anything out of the deal personally, hence the "bad deal" rhetoric he's carried on and on about.

[QUOTE=Steel & Iron;52618976]I get an unresearched feeling that Trump doesn't get anything out of the deal personally, hence the "bad deal" rhetoric he's carried on and on about.[/QUOTE] It doesn't benefit Trump, therefore it doesn't benefit AMERICAN WORKERS

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/exZzhje.png[/IMG] [URL="http://www.ndpanalytics.com/blog/2016/11/29/the-benefits-of-nafta-on-us-trade"](infographic source)[/URL] [URL="https://dataweb.usitc.gov/"](facts source: usitc.gov)[/URL] [QUOTE=Blog with infographic]Americans export and import over $3.8 trillion of products a year with their trading partners around the world. The positive economic benefits of trading are well documented in every industry. Consumers have more choices at lower prices while producers are able to specialize on their comparative advantages to make products better and cheaper. Low prices mean low inflation which translates in accommodative monetary policy. With low interest rates, consumers and businesses are able to borrow at lower costs. Overall, open trade promotes economic growth. The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), a trilateral trade bloc, is no exception. U.S. exports to Canada and Mexico accounted for 33% of U.S. total exports (averaging nearly $517 billion a year) while U.S. imports from Canada and Mexico accounted for 27% of U.S. total imports (averaging over $606 billion a year). NAFTA provides American consumers with more choices at lower prices as Americans export and import goods of the same industry. [B]For example, the U.S. motor vehicle industry is among the top five export industries to Canada and Mexico and is also among the top five import industries from Canada and Mexico, accounting for 42% of U.S. total motor vehicle exports and 49% of U.S. total motor vehicle imports, respectively.[/B] The motor vehicle part industry and oil and gas industry are examples of producers specializing in their comparative advantages along the supply chain within NAFTA. Americans export auto parts and import auto vehicles from Canada and Mexico [B](77% of U.S. total exports of auto parts)[/B]; similarly, Americans import raw oil and gas and export petroleum and coal products to Canada and Mexico [B](30% of U.S. exports of total petroleum and coal products)[/B].[/QUOTE] Go ahead, Trump. Rip up a third of your own economy, including a backbone of trade and oil jobs, just to get your approval rating to go up again. We Amexit now.

There are such an absurd number of benefits to NAFTA, despite its flaws. Throwing it out entirely because forced re-negotiations aren't going your way is unbelievably immature. Trump's getting pissed at Mexico because the US has a trade deficit with them. If he reacts by throwing out NAFTA, Mexico's not gonna stop exporting goods to the US. They'll just roll the new expense into the price of the goods, hurting the end-line middle-class American who just wants to go buy some bananas, only to find they've gone up in price.

[QUOTE=.Isak.;52619039]There are such an absurd number of benefits to NAFTA, despite its flaws. Throwing it out entirely because forced re-negotiations aren't going your way is unbelievably immature. Trump's getting pissed at Mexico because the US has a trade deficit with them. If he reacts by throwing out NAFTA, Mexico's not gonna stop exporting goods to the US. They'll just roll the new expense into the price of the goods, hurting the end-line middle-class American who just wants to go buy some bananas, only to find they've gone up in price.[/QUOTE] I hope you like paying more for cars, because [I]half[/I] of your car imports come from your neighbours.

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;52619041]I hope you like paying more for cars, because [I]half[/I] of your car imports come from your neighbours.[/QUOTE] Not to mention that a lot of Carrier's air conditioning parts are made in Mexico, as well, if not the units themselves. Source - I use to install them, lost count of the number of "Made in Mexico" labels I've seen.

Obviously Trump is taking a page out of the UK's book for interpretating 'reclaiming one's national glory' as 'shoot yourself in the foot and economically cripple yourself because brown people are in your country'.

I sense Putin's hand in this.

I really don't get why Trump and his cronies are sinking the ship that is US influence, its what makes us so powerful. There really aren't any long run benefits to breaking up all these agreements that I can see and the only short term benefits are pleasing of their xenophobic and ignorant base, which can easily be done in other less self-destructive ways. The only bonus to Himself that I can see is some Faustian pact with another country or perhaps he's so ignorant of how our government, international politics, and global economies work that he just assumes that since he doesn't understand NAFTA it must be useless. It really adds credence to the whole concept of him being a Russian puppet, because they seem to be the only one's gaining from His presidency.

[QUOTE=Popularvote;52619343]I sense Putin's hand in this.[/QUOTE] I think you're right.

[QUOTE=CP-26;52619396]I really don't get why Trump and his cronies are sinking the ship that is US influence, its what makes us so powerful. There really aren't any long run benefits to breaking up all these agreements that I can see and the only short term benefits are pleasing of their xenophobic and ignorant base, which can easily be done in other less self-destructive ways. The only bonus to Himself that I can see is some Faustian pact with another country or perhaps he's so ignorant of how our government, international politics, and global economies work that he just assumes that since he doesn't understand NAFTA it must be useless. It really adds credence to the whole concept of him being a Russian puppet, because they seem to be the only one's gaining from His presidency.[/QUOTE] Trump seems to genuinely believe that America can, and should be, entirely self-dependent. Granted, they can be, no doubt about it. But that doesn't mean it's sustainable. The US economy will tank if they start breaking up trade agreements left, right, and centre.

[QUOTE=Dom Pyroshark;52618966]Isn't US like... hugely dependent on NAFTA? Don't they also have the best position in it?[/QUOTE] it would totally fuck up most of the US manufacturing economy and totally destroy our auto industry overnight also he seems to not understand that trade isn't a zero sum game, us having a trade deficit doesn't mean we don't benefit from low trade barriers

[QUOTE=Spetsnaz95;52619500]Trump seems to genuinely believe that America can, and should be, entirely self-dependent. Granted, they can be, no doubt about it. But that doesn't mean it's sustainable. The US economy will tank if they start breaking up trade agreements left, right, and centre.[/QUOTE] [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky"]Autarky[/URL], or economic self-sufficiency, is pretty popular among authoritarian rulers. Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, the Soviet Union, and the like all sought it out. Not a huge surprise that Trump tears into free trade so much - just following his role models.

Someone please put this retard out of service before he kills us all, literally or economically

pls no great depression 2 for canada pls

Remeber how Trump was going to save the coal industry?

[QUOTE=spazthemax;52619951]pls no great depression 2 for canada pls[/QUOTE] don't worry, you guys have a bilateral trade agreement with europe and mexico would probably not withdraw from NAFTA, its us that are gonna be fucked up because nobody wants bilateral trade agreements.

The trade will continue to happen regardless, if the costs increase, companies will just move as a response.

Do you ever get bored of being so very wrong in every single post you've ever made?

[QUOTE=Sableye;52620288]don't worry, you guys have a bilateral trade agreement with europe and mexico would probably not withdraw from NAFTA, its us that are gonna be fucked up because nobody wants bilateral trade agreements.[/QUOTE] You have no idea how much Canada relies on the U.S. for its imports, about half the food in my fridge is from the U.S. to start.

[QUOTE=EcksDee;52621031]Do you ever get bored of being so very wrong in every single post you've ever made?[/QUOTE] That is literally economic theory right there. Trade will continue, but it doesn't have to be under NAFTA, theres still WTO rules to fall back on. Trade does not halt like that because an agreement stops, and if that trade is tariffed, which without NAFTA would probably be true, then companies will adjust.

Defending NAFTA just because Trump is against it seems absolutely insane. The left should be using this as an opportunity to push back against neoliberal globalization, but would rather squander it to spite Trump. [QUOTE=.Isak.;52619817][URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky"]Autarky[/URL], or economic self-sufficiency, is pretty popular among authoritarian rulers. Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, the Soviet Union, and the like all sought it out. Not a huge surprise that Trump tears into free trade so much - just following his role models.[/QUOTE] Literally no one in the anti-NAFTA crowd, on the left or the right, suggested that trade should end completely in favor of autarky. NAFTA doesn't even have much to do with trade.

[QUOTE=daschnek;52621169]NAFTA doesn't even have much to do with trade.[/QUOTE] What does a [I]free trade agreement[/I] do if not involve trade? The agreement literally establishes a trading bloc between America and its two neighbours. The stated goal of the whole damn thing was to increase trade and investment between the three nations. And if NAFTA gets ripped up... what do America's trade relations with its neighbours fall back to? Does Canada and the US roll back to the Canada-US Free Trade Agreement? If not, what? Is it going to be like Brexit where Trump announces a pullout with a fuse set to blow several years in the future and worries about negotiating replacement agreements another time? Or is it more a case of, once NAFTA's cancelled, all three nations can trade with each other, but if, say, Canada decides to levy a 75% tariff on MAGA hats being imported, we'd be allowed and America could only get pissed off and threaten to retaliate? That's something I haven't heard explained from Trump - how he'll maintain trade after tearing up the agreement. I don't think he knows, himself.

[QUOTE=daschnek;52621169] NAFTA doesn't even have much to do with trade.[/QUOTE] Uhh.. Care to elaborate on that? NAFTA literally stands for North American Free Trade Agreement. While it covers some other agreements, trade and tariffs are a good chunk of it.

[QUOTE=Boilrig;52621162]That is literally economic theory right there. Trade will continue, but it doesn't have to be under NAFTA, theres still WTO rules to fall back on. Trade does not halt like that because an agreement stops, and if that trade is tariffed, which without NAFTA would probably be true, then companies will adjust.[/QUOTE] ... you do realise that NAFTA exists to make trading easier... right? Oh wait, it's you.

[QUOTE={TFS} Rock Su;52621541]... you do realise that NAFTA exists to make trading easier... right? Oh wait, it's you.[/QUOTE] You don't say.

[QUOTE=daschnek;52621169]Defending NAFTA just because Trump is against it seems absolutely insane. The left should be using this as an opportunity to push back against neoliberal globalization, but would rather squander it to spite Trump. [/QUOTE] No one is defending it just because Trump is against. Everyone is defending it because it's beneficial to [I]everyone[/I].

[QUOTE=FlakTheMighty;52621696]No one is defending it just because Trump is against. Everyone is defending it because it's beneficial to [I]everyone[/I].[/QUOTE] NAFTA has undeniable flaws but it's possible to renegotiate to fix those flaws rather than throwing the whole thing out.