Saudi court sentences poet to death for renouncing Islam - Polidicks

[quote]Friends of Palestinian Ashraf Fayadh believe he is being punished for posting video showing religious police lashing a man in public A Palestinian poet and leading member of Saudi Arabia’s nascent contemporary art scene has been sentenced to death for renouncing Islam. A Saudi court on Tuesday ordered the execution of Ashraf Fayadh, who has curated art shows in [URL="http://universes-in-universe.org/eng/nafas/articles/2013/mostly_visible"]Jeddah[/URL] and at [URL="http://edgeofarabia.com/exhibitions/rhizoma-generation-in-waiting"]the Venice Biennale[/URL]. The poet, who said he did not have legal representation, was given 30 days to appeal against the ruling. Fayadh, 35, a key member of the British-Saudi art organisation [URL="http://edgeofarabia.com/"]Edge of Arabia[/URL], was originally sentenced to four years in prison and 800 lashes by the general court in Abha, a city in the south-west of the ultraconservative kingdom, in May 2014. But after his appeal was dismissed he was retried earlier this month and a new panel of judges ruled that his repentance did not prevent his execution. “I was really shocked but it was expected, though I didn’t do anything that deserves death,” Fayadh told the Guardian.[/quote] [URL]http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/20/saudi-court-sentences-poet-to-death-for-renouncing-islam[/URL] Found the article thanks to Professor Richard Dawkins's RT.

See, this is the shit Islam needs to stop if it wants people to believe it when it says it's religion of peace. I fully believe in the integrity of the majority of practicing Muslims, and harbor no judgement against anyone for their religion or skin tone. However; you can't have a country murdering people for saying they don't believe in your religion any more. It's barbarism.

What an utterly despicable, abhorrent stain of a culture on humanity. Simply ludicrous.

[QUOTE]Dear Saudi Arabia, Live and let live. Sincerely, everyone ever.[/QUOTE] Seriously though, Saudi is so stuck in the dark ages. I pray that this man will live somehow, this isn't why someone should die.

[QUOTE=valkery;49201767]See, this is the shit Islam needs to stop if it wants people to believe it when it says it's religion of peace. I fully believe in the integrity of the majority of practicing Muslims, and harbor no judgement against anyone for their religion or skin tone. However; you can't have a country murdering people for saying they don't believe in your religion any more. It's barbarism.[/QUOTE] This is like getting mad at baptists for something catholics did. Saudi's practice a very extreme form of Islam and fund a lot of sunni extremists. You really don't hear about shit like this happening in a place like Jordan.

[QUOTE=Dr.C;49201902]This is like getting mad at baptists for something catholics did. Saudi's practice a very extreme form of Islam and fund a lot of sunni extremists. You really don't hear about shit like this happening in a place like Jordan.[/QUOTE] Extreme form of Islam? It says it right in the Quran to cut off fingers, heads and other body parts for those who criticize Islam, leave the religion (like the poet did) or draw pictures of a certain prophet in such a way. [I] Quran (8:12) "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"[/I] Its right there, plain as day. This is Islam as a religion in a nutshell, and it badly needs a reform.

[QUOTE=SpotEnemyBoat;49201919]Extreme? It says it right in the Quran to cut off fingers, heads and other body parts for those who criticize Islam, leave the religion (like the poet did) or draw pictures of a certain prophet in such a way. [I] Quran (8:12) "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"[/I] Its right there, plain as day. This is Islam as a religion in a nutshell, and it badly needs a reform.[/QUOTE] Books of religion are meant to be taken figurativly.

[QUOTE=Lord of Boxes;49201927]Books of religion are meant to be taken figurativly.[/QUOTE] I don't know how anyone could take that quote in a figurative "spiritual" sense, especially when it says to cutt off body parts.

[QUOTE=SpotEnemyBoat;49201919]Extreme form of Islam? It says it right in the Quran to cut off fingers, heads and other body parts for those who criticize Islam, leave the religion (like the poet did) or draw pictures of a certain prophet in such a way. [I] Quran (8:12) "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"[/I] Its right there, plain as day. This is Islam as a religion in a nutshell, and it badly needs a reform.[/QUOTE] The Christian bible has stuff that's just as ruthless though? I'm pretty sure every religion that takes direction from a series of manuscripts written before contemporary values were developed is in pretty much the same state. If a government chooses to use religion as a faux-motive to prevent people from speaking out or criticising the status quo, that's an issue with the government not the religion. Religions have always been inherently subjective in terms of what we take from the books and use in the real world.

[QUOTE=SpotEnemyBoat;49201919]Extreme form of Islam? It says it right in the Quran to cut off fingers, heads and other body parts for those who criticize Islam, leave the religion (like the poet did) or draw pictures of a certain prophet in such a way. [I] Quran (8:12) "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"[/I] Its right there, plain as day. This is Islam as a religion in a nutshell, and it badly needs a reform.[/QUOTE] That's because chapter 8, Surat Al-Anfal is about the Battle of Badr, it was literally an invasion attempt by the Pagans in Mecca towards the Muslims in Madinah. It does not say you should cut off the fingers, heads and other body parts of those who critisise islam. Its really just a war speech literally telling them "lol just kill them and win this war already".

[QUOTE=Maloof?;49201985]The Christian bible has stuff that's just as ruthless though? I'm pretty sure every religion that takes direction from a series of manuscripts written before contemporary values were developed is in pretty much the same state. If a government chooses to use religion as a faux-motive to prevent people from speaking out or criticising the status quo, that's an issue with the government not the religion. Religions have always been inherently subjective in terms of what we take from the books and use in the real world.[/QUOTE] The difference is that Christians in first world countries don't actively practice the brutality described in their scripture, It's a problem within their culture, and they use their religion as an excuse for these acts.

[QUOTE=SpotEnemyBoat;49201919]Extreme form of Islam? It says it right in the Quran to cut off fingers, heads and other body parts for those who criticize Islam, leave the religion (like the poet did) or draw pictures of a certain prophet in such a way. [I] Quran (8:12) "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"[/I] Its right there, plain as day. This is Islam as a religion in a nutshell, and it badly needs a reform.[/QUOTE] You can go back and read the full, unaltered Bible as we know it and find innumerable amounts of questionable shit, especially with the proposed treatment of women as inferior. All religious texts have weird shit in them. They were written hundreds -sometimes thousands- of years ago. The society that is built around them is what counts, and Saudi Arabia isn't as much a society as a pit of despair.

At the time, these religions were progressive for women. Something to think about.

[QUOTE=soulharvester;49202002]The difference is that Christians in first world countries don't actively practice the brutality described in their scripture, It's a problem within their culture, and they use their religion as an excuse for these acts.[/QUOTE] The very first Christians didn't follow the rules of the Old Testament, just look it up. I hate when people point to the extremely strict laws in the Old Testament as an example of Christians picking and choosing when it's essentially always been that way from the very beginning because those laws are very clearly presented as something that Christians aren't supposed to follow in the New Testament. Modern Christians don't ignore those laws as figurative because they don't like them, they ignore them because Christianity teaches to ignore them. This reasoning doesn't hold in Islam. Their entire scripture applies equally to Muslims today as it did when it was written.

[QUOTE=sgman91;49202017]The very first Christians didn't follow the rules of the Old Testament, just look it up. I hate when people point to the extremely strict laws in the Old Testament as an example of Christians picking and choosing when it's essentially always been that way from the very beginning because those laws are very clearly presented as something that Christians aren't supposed to follow in the New Testament. This reasoning doesn't hold in Islam. Their entire scripture applies equally to Muslims today as it did when it was written.[/QUOTE] That due to The Godfearers. They were honorary Jews but werent held too strictly as those Jews of that time. That according to the book history of god any ways.

[QUOTE=Maloof?;49201985]The Christian bible has stuff that's just as ruthless though? I'm pretty sure every religion that takes direction from a series of manuscripts written before contemporary values were developed is in pretty much the same state. If a government chooses to use religion as a faux-motive to prevent people from speaking out or criticising the status quo, that's an issue with the government not the religion. Religions have always been inherently subjective in terms of what we take from the books and use in the real world.[/QUOTE] My mother used to read passages all the time of the Bible, so I get there is riddles in some of the passages in the Abrahamic religions. I don't remember much other than the Old Testament passage of stoning adulturers. And how is it not a an issue with religion? There people who protested against satirical cartoons of their prophet. Then the cartoonists were were killed. Athiests like Hitchens brothers, Dawkins and Phil Mason have not been afraid to criticize Islam, but why are we making excuses? We should be standing up for Liberal ideas, especially when an ideology stands against human rights and free speech. Damnit, I wish Christopher Hitchens was alive, he'd agree.

I'm not sure why we Christians still keep the old Testament around, because it is completely different than the New one. I'm not very religious and don't know all the texts, but in the Old one(based on hebrew bible) God is only the God of Jewish people and you could say he is the God of destruction, killing anyone that stands in the way of the chosen Jewish people. While in the new Testament, God is now the God of all people, and is much more chill. Like when Jesus stopped the crowd from stoning a prostitute and said "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her".

[QUOTE=Lord of Boxes;49201927]Books of religion are meant to be taken figurativly.[/QUOTE] Don't delude yourself. However, most practitioners of religions conveniently ignore many parts of their holy books. I suppose that's a good thing.

Why haven't the international community stopped this bullshit yet? Oh yeah, money...

[QUOTE=AntonioR;49202071]I'm not sure why we Christians still keep the old Testament around, because it is completely different than the New one. I'm not very religious and don't know all the texts, but in the Old one(based on hebrew bible) God is only the God of Jewish people and you could say he is the God of destruction, killing anyone that stands in the way of the chosen Jewish people. While in the new Testament, God is now the God of all people, and is much more chill. Like when Jesus stopped the crowd from stoning a prostitute and said "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her".[/QUOTE] Well that's just part of the new covenant. New promise = new policy.

[QUOTE=Lord of Boxes;49201927]Books of religion are meant to be taken figurativly.[/QUOTE] Isn't it convenient that [I]now[/I] religion is meant to be figurative after emancipation of the types of people it used to condemn

[QUOTE=SpotEnemyBoat;49201919]Extreme form of Islam? It says it right in the Quran to cut off fingers, heads and other body parts for those who criticize Islam, leave the religion (like the poet did) or draw pictures of a certain prophet in such a way. [I] Quran (8:12) "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"[/I] Its right there, plain as day. This is Islam as a religion in a nutshell, and it badly needs a reform.[/QUOTE] There's a ton of violent rederick in the bible. But only violent people follow violence.

[QUOTE=gastyne;49202342]There's a ton of violent rederick in the bible. But only violent people follow violence.[/QUOTE] "Rhetoric". Man, I wish western nations would rethink the nature of their relationship with Saudi Arabia.

Gotta love the UN's newest member on the Human Right's council.

People try to attribute the failings of people to Islam, but if we look at who created Islam (people), who keeps enforcing Islam (people), who keeps manipulating people with Islam (people), and who keeps enabling the awfulness of Islam (people), it's always people. People are the problem. If there are people who can peacefully practice Islam, there's no excuse for people not to follow suit save for their own personal failings.

[URL="https://archive.is/rWmaP"]Saudi Arabia To Sue Twitter User Who Called Poet's Death Sentence 'ISIS-Like'[/URL](archive because site is bugged out when viewed normally for me) Prepare to get sued, heathens.

[QUOTE=Mattk50;49202511][URL="https://archive.is/rWmaP"]Saudi Arabia To Sue Twitter User Who Called Poet's Death Sentence 'ISIS-Like'[/URL](archive because site is bugged out when viewed normally for me) Prepare to get sued, heathens.[/QUOTE] I'd like an extra source on that before I buy it.

[QUOTE=BananaFoam;49202004]You can go back and read the full, unaltered Bible as we know it and find innumerable amounts of questionable shit, especially with the proposed treatment of women as inferior. All religious texts have weird shit in them. They were written hundreds -sometimes thousands- of years ago. The society that is built around them is what counts, and Saudi Arabia isn't as much a society as a pit of despair.[/QUOTE] The difference is that the Qur'an is - to many people at least - the literal word of god. I know a (very nice guy), and I don't think you get more moderate than him, and he's adamant that the Qur'an isliterally an unaltered version of what god tells you to do. And you can't interpret it wrong, unless you're doing it on purpose - that's how perfect it is. I'm not saying he's going to turn into a violent maniac (he wants to be a doctor), but Islam has a problem that Christianity doesn't - I don't think I've met a single person who claims the whole bible to be the word of God. Is that a problem for most people? No, not really, but you can't expect people not to follow what it says in some cases (even if you think their interpretation is wrong, or they should just ignore that part etc.). Personally I think it's dangerous for any text to be wholesale truth, whether it's christian, Islamic, a political manifesto etc.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;49202631] I'm not saying he's going to turn into a violent maniac (he wants to be a doctor), but Islam has a problem that Christianity doesn't - I don't think I've met a single person who claims the whole bible to be the word of God.[/QUOTE] Christianity has this problem to a much lesser extent. Christians are far more selective and pretty much limit their backwardness to hating homosexuals (and even killing them). Christian radicals exist in much smaller numbers. [QUOTE=valkery;49201767]See, this is the shit Islam needs to stop if it wants people to believe it when it says it's religion of peace. I fully believe in the integrity of the majority of practicing Muslims, and harbor no judgement against anyone for their religion or skin tone. However; you can't have a country murdering people for saying they don't believe in your religion any more. It's barbarism.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/[/url] This bad apples stuff doesn't cut it when most of them believe in killing apostates.

[QUOTE=SpotEnemyBoat;49201919]Extreme form of Islam? It says it right in the Quran to cut off fingers, heads and other body parts for those who criticize Islam, leave the religion (like the poet did) or draw pictures of a certain prophet in such a way. [I] Quran (8:12) "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"[/I] Its right there, plain as day. This is Islam as a religion in a nutshell, and it badly needs a reform.[/QUOTE] Yeah and it also says this: [quote] If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. [/quote] and this [quote] However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.[/quote] and this [quote]If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.[/quote] Oh wait those are from the bibile Is this Christianity in a nutshell? How can anyone interpret these spiritually. I guess you could say that part of religion is contextualisation, and that the point in a religious text is the overarching themes of charity and love, not the little details about faith wars, that were written during times of religious persecution and war. Also IIRC the part about drawing mohammed isn't in the Quran, and is a belief that came way later that isn't unanimous. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzusSqcotDw[/media] This guy nails it.