• [Abroad In Japan] Why I'm Losing Faith in Youtube
    26 replies, posted
[media]https://youtu.be/r5lMM160etI[/media] When will it end?
What's more ridiculous is there are trash clickbait stolen content videos out there with about ten ads riddled all over them which aren't being flagged whatsoever
How the fuck is Abroad in Japan supposed to be non-advertiser friendly? He's one of the least controversial channels on the whole site. Does this count as an algorithm anymore? There's no channel on youtube I'm aware of that ISN'T being hit by this somehow. Because it seems like it's less "flagging specific videos as advertiser unfriendly' and more "Every single video on youtube is advertiser unfriendly unless it comes from a corporation". Real good algorithm.
Well youtube demonotized videos from the kid that does food reviews from his car, as PG and appropriate as you can get. So this isn't surprising at all.
snip
Here's the genius guys You can't have ads playing on inappropriate content if you don't have ads playing on anything
[QUOTE=green bandit;52771159]Well youtube demonotized videos from the kid that does food reviews from his car, as PG and appropriate as you can get. So this isn't surprising at all.[/QUOTE] Poor Reviewbrah... He wears suits and probably has never cursed without apologizing for it.
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;52771118]How the fuck is Abroad in Japan supposed to be non-advertiser friendly? He's one of the least controversial channels on the whole site. Does this count as an algorithm anymore? There's no channel on youtube I'm aware of that ISN'T being hit by this somehow. Because it seems like it's less "flagging specific videos as advertiser unfriendly' and more "Every single video on youtube is advertiser unfriendly unless it comes from a corporation". Real good algorithm.[/QUOTE] It's not an algorithm, it's a bot using machine learning. I don't know what data they used to train it, but it's not something that was carefully designed to enforce the rules -- when the bot decides to demonetize your video, Youtube cannot tell you why [i]because they simply don't know[/i]. The only thing you can do is wait til it gets demonetized, then manually file an appeal (which takes days or weeks) so the guy who runs the bot can watch your video and tell the bot it made a mistake so that it can 'learn' a little bit more. And if you, and everyone else who gets demonetized, don't go through this slow, painful appeals process, [i]the bot will think that it's making the correct decisions[/i]. The results are thousands of videos getting randomly demonetized, with no way to predict whether you'll set off the almighty machine, and because Youtube is Youtube, they don't really give a shit and haven't said anything about it yet other than pretty much "the bot is working as intended" :v: Valve News did a much more in-depth video about the bot and how it works: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzdbCxy0Roc[/url]
"bot, flag every youtuber watched by people who use the internet for more than music and social media. we'll narrow it down from there"
[QUOTE=Thomo;52771151]Has YouTube even noticed these videos calling out this apocalypse or is it just stoic silence?[/QUOTE] If anything their automated systems have culled the ads of any videos that try to call them out, complimented by more silence.
[QUOTE=milktree;52771453]"bot, flag every youtuber watched by people who use the internet for more than music and social media. we'll narrow it down from there"[/QUOTE] The sad thing is you're probably not too far off.
google should at least indicate what parts of videos got it flagged
why can't youtube just come out and say "lol i don't want to pay you guys so much anymore" instead of pulling off this kind of bullshit
[QUOTE=Luni;52771451]It's not an algorithm, it's a bot using machine learning. I don't know what data they used to train it, but it's not something that was carefully designed to enforce the rules -- when the bot decides to demonetize your video, Youtube cannot tell you why [i]because they simply don't know[/i]. The only thing you can do is wait til it gets demonetized, then manually file an appeal (which takes days or weeks) so the guy who runs the bot can watch your video and tell the bot it made a mistake so that it can 'learn' a little bit more. And if you, and everyone else who gets demonetized, don't go through this slow, painful appeals process, [i]the bot will think that it's making the correct decisions[/i]. The results are thousands of videos getting randomly demonetized, with no way to predict whether you'll set off the almighty machine, and because Youtube is Youtube, they don't really give a shit and haven't said anything about it yet other than pretty much "the bot is working as intended" :v: Valve News did a much more in-depth video about the bot and how it works: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzdbCxy0Roc[/url][/QUOTE] Not quite, it's much easier to whitelist people than that. Google is at the forefront of AI, but even they can't buff out all the kinks yet, but even they're smart enough to allow themselves to whitelist channels. It's my assumption the bot looks at the videos with the most views and that are the most prolific (because if the data isn't spread out evenly it becomes lopsided in what it learns, hence prolific channels being preferred) for what it considers to be 'good' content, and anything that doesn't match that format is demonetized. They probably designed it to check for spam, violent videos, and otherwise, but it's clearly not trained well yet (or even designed properly - the YouTube team [i]isn't[/i] DeepMind after all). It's likely that it was in development when the 'adpocalypse' went down, and in order to avoid bad press like that again they let loose this AI that was still in development. It may flag stuff that it shouldn't but casting too wide a net isn't what YouTube is concerned about. They just want to cover their ass, at anyone else's cost if need be.
My channel has been shadow flagged, i still generate money but like 80% less then before. Really fucking sucks [editline]12th October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Mister Sandman;52771118]How the fuck is Abroad in Japan supposed to be non-advertiser friendly? He's one of the least controversial channels on the whole site. Does this count as an algorithm anymore? There's no channel on youtube I'm aware of that ISN'T being hit by this somehow. Because it seems like it's less "flagging specific videos as advertiser unfriendly' and more "Every single video on youtube is advertiser unfriendly unless it comes from a corporation". Real good algorithm.[/QUOTE] Well sometimes he says [I]fuck[/I] or [I]retarded[/I]. Lock that man up
[QUOTE=green bandit;52771159]Well youtube demonotized videos from the kid that does food reviews from his car, as PG and appropriate as you can get. So this isn't surprising at all.[/QUOTE] oh no they better not fuck with reviewbrah
[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;52771754]Not quite, it's much easier to whitelist people than that. Google is at the forefront of AI, but even they can't buff out all the kinks yet, but even they're smart enough to allow themselves to whitelist channels. It's my assumption the bot looks at the videos with the most views and that are the most prolific (because if the data isn't spread out evenly it becomes lopsided in what it learns, hence prolific channels being preferred) for what it considers to be 'good' content, and anything that doesn't match that format is demonetized. They probably designed it to check for spam, violent videos, and otherwise, but it's clearly not trained well yet (or even designed properly - the YouTube team [i]isn't[/i] DeepMind after all). It's likely that it was in development when the 'adpocalypse' went down, and in order to avoid bad press like that again they let loose this AI that was still in development. It may flag stuff that it shouldn't but casting too wide a net isn't what YouTube is concerned about. They just want to cover their ass, at anyone else's cost if need be.[/QUOTE] "let's counter bad press with even more bad press" Youtube's algorithm/bot/A.I. Going haywire needs to hit the general news.
I think we also need to include the fact that this is mostly on the advertisers. This shit started woth the whole "add on ISIS video" scandal or at least that was the tipping point.
It is obvious why he is being demonetized. His videos show him using his hand and feet, which is offensive to people who don't have hand and/or feet. And sometimes he shows negative emotions, we can't have that. No, no. And all these colors! Too many damn colors, he is offending color blind people. His video are also not diverse enough. Where are the black and hispanic people?
Part of the problem is that they're using a neural network I think. They can't point out how the system works because they literally don't know. The only way for them to improve the system is to show the bot what didn't work, so it can learn. Which is why the counter claim system is important.
At this point they could almost make a new bot, show it this one, and tell it "don't be like this" and you'd have better results.
[QUOTE=Jojje;52773375]Part of the problem is that they're using a neural network I think. They can't point out how the system works because they literally don't know. The only way for them to improve the system is to show the bot what didn't work, so it can learn. Which is why the counter claim system is important.[/QUOTE] And people don't bother counter claiming because that system in itself is atrocious and slooooow. They wanna make it learn the stupid way? at least make it easy to say "fuck you there's nothing wrong" so a human will check it out.
[QUOTE=Jojje;52773375]Part of the problem is that they're using a neural network I think. They can't point out how the system works because they literally don't know. The only way for them to improve the system is to show the bot what didn't work, so it can learn. Which is why the counter claim system is important.[/QUOTE] Here's the thing though, 70% of views any video will usually get occur within the first ~2 days of it being released, thus 70% of your ad revenue will occur within the first 2 days. Regardless of whether or not you believe that the neural network will get smarter, it's in effect running under a guilty until proven innocent system, demonetise your videos when they're most likely to actually make you money, then by the time you make your counter claim and youtube processes it, that burst of interest has already passed. I worry that this has not only added an extra step of anxiety and mental tax to content creators [i]every single time[/i] they upload a video, but that whoever at youtube gave the go-ahead for this is smart enough to understand the consequences of their system, and rolled it out anyway.
[QUOTE=Dubious George;52774819]Here's the thing though, 70% of views any video will usually get occur within the first ~2 days of it being released, thus 70% of your ad revenue will occur within the first 2 days. Regardless of whether or not you believe that the neural network will get smarter, it's in effect running under a guilty until proven innocent system, demonetise your videos when they're most likely to actually make you money, then by the time you make your counter claim and youtube processes it, that burst of interest has already passed. I worry that this has not only added an extra step of anxiety and mental tax to content creators [i]every single time[/i] they upload a video, but that whoever at youtube gave the go-ahead for this is smart enough to understand the consequences of their system, and rolled it out anyway.[/QUOTE] This is the part that really pisses me off about this system. There's no way YouTube doesn't know that this is how content creators make their money, and yet YouTube's unleashing a bot that fucks them over in that specific way. I also don't understand why Google is allowing some bot to demonetize such a large number of major channels, removing vast swathes of advertiser revenue. That revenue supposedly helps YouTube itself keep running, right? Isn't this hurting Google as well, or am I missing something here? Maybe the logic is that they wouldn't have advertisers at all since they'd all just be pulling out if such a strict system wasn't in place?
[QUOTE=Dubious George;52774819]Here's the thing though, 70% of views any video will usually get occur within the first ~2 days of it being released, thus 70% of your ad revenue will occur within the first 2 days. Regardless of whether or not you believe that the neural network will get smarter, it's in effect running under a guilty until proven innocent system, demonetise your videos when they're most likely to actually make you money, then by the time you make your counter claim and youtube processes it, that burst of interest has already passed. I worry that this has not only added an extra step of anxiety and mental tax to content creators [i]every single time[/i] they upload a video, but that whoever at youtube gave the go-ahead for this is smart enough to understand the consequences of their system, and rolled it out anyway.[/QUOTE] The only temporary solution I can think of is uploading the video but leaving it unlisted for a day, then counter claim it if the bot has flagged the video. Only then once it's been verified make the video public. Problem is this method would keep a video hostage for up to an entire week, so for people uploading near daily this just won't work or if the date for release has already been chosen.
[img]http://puu.sh/xX3dF/198ff7a3cb.jpg[/img] :s:
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