There is a very common phenomenon in bodybuilding where competitors will come out on a post-contest (i.e After weeks of very strong dieting and body comp manipulation) binge and make lean mass gains in the space of a few months that would normally take a year or two. (keep in mind there is also alot of guys who come of a particularly shit pre-contest prep, gorge themselves, and end up adding layers of fat)
Similar things are talked about in regards to guys who go to Marine boot camp or Ranger School, come out starved and much lighter than they came in, with insatiable hunger, and in the space of a few months, 20lbs heavier than they went in and noticeably leaner.
This is called "super-compensation" and nobody can figure out exactly what the process behind it is. There's a bunch of theories, but none have any hard science behind them.
This is also perhaps the reason Christian bale starved himself for machinist and was able to put back on 100lbs (mostly lean, by anecdotal accounts, he was kind of fluffy at the end, and had to cut back down) for Batman in a very short timeframe.
There is evidence however to suggest that the body responds well to periods of fasting, Who knows? W/e it's fucking cool regardless
Who cares.
I don't get it. Just sounds like turning a ton of food in to muscle rather than fat, which tends to happen when you workout.
[QUOTE=futnuck;29401441]I don't get it. Just sounds like turning a ton of food in to muscle rather than fat, which tends to happen when you workout.[/QUOTE]
P. much here it is in laymans terms (i thought it was already):
They are eating a ton of food after a period of starvation and making huge gains in lean mass (muscle) that would normally take a year, if not years.
Normally if you tried to do something similar you would end up just fat.
[editline]24th April 2011[/editline]
Part of it is muscle memory, but that does not account for the new lean tissue.
fasting is actually a really good idea every once in awhile
[QUOTE=Binsky;29401776]fasting is actually a really good idea every once in awhile[/QUOTE]
It's great for cleansing your body, but it's one of the worst ways to lose weight.
Also, didn't know about that starvation stuff. Are there any actual guides or lessons to doing it properly, or even recommendations on when to do it?
Actually it's a fantastic method of weight loss contrary to what every "healthy living" magazine keeps talking shit about (note these are the same magazines that tell obese people they should be eating low-fat, low protein high carb diets lmao)
As for going about something like this, well I'm not entirely sure, I don't feel confident suggesting any method of approach until I understand the mechanics behind this phenomena.
I guess it's kinda like eating after fasting makes you fat. After WWII, jews weren't gaining much weight from concentration camps, and I have no idea how they found this out, I guess someone forgot to feed the jews? But they would make them fast every so often and they gained a lot more weight. I guess it's like that but if you work out you get muscle instead of fat from it.
It's controlled overtraining. The pro's can do it at a more intense rate, because they are already kind of used to physical stress (muscle memory, the certain mindset, ability to regenerate, genetics, and what have you).
If you are just starting out in terms of training (no matter what sport, physical adaption happens everywhere), then don't do this. You have to be able to listen to your body, closely. Which only comes with time and experience.
[QUOTE=shatteredwindow;29407593]I guess it's kinda like eating after fasting makes you fat. After WWII, jews weren't gaining much weight from concentration camps, and I have no idea how they found this out, I guess someone forgot to feed the jews? But they would make them fast every so often and they gained a lot more weight. I guess it's like that but if you work out you get muscle instead of fat from it.[/QUOTE]
wat
[editline]25th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;29401203]There is a very common phenomenon in bodybuilding where competitors will come out on a post-contest (i.e After weeks of very strong dieting and body comp manipulation) binge and make lean mass gains in the space of a few months that would normally take a year or two. (keep in mind there is also alot of guys who come of a particularly shit pre-contest prep, gorge themselves, and end up adding layers of fat)
Similar things are talked about in regards to guys who go to Marine boot camp or Ranger School, come out starved and much lighter than they came in, with insatiable hunger, and in the space of a few months, 20lbs heavier than they went in and noticeably leaner.
This is called "super-compensation" and nobody can figure out exactly what the process behind it is. There's a bunch of theories, but none have any hard science behind them.
This is also perhaps the reason Christian bale starved himself for machinist and was able to put back on 100lbs (mostly lean, by anecdotal accounts, he was kind of fluffy at the end, and had to cut back down) for Batman in a very short timeframe.
There is evidence however to suggest that the body responds well to periods of fasting, Who knows? W/e it's fucking cool regardless[/QUOTE]
muscle memory plays a huge part in this ( btw ive seen better transformations from this type of muscle regrowth than christian bale) and youre right , i havent seen 1 convincible or even decent paper on how this works so its really a "magic" type of deal. im going to have to argue against your first and second paragraph though
1;these body builders are nearing their genetic potential so it would only make sense for them to see amazing gains ( ie instantly reaching/ leaping over it )if they lost plenty of muscle during their cut ( ie fasting )
2; same deal as above but then you have noob gains
~o~
[editline]25th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;29403532]Actually it's a fantastic method of weight loss contrary to what every "healthy living" magazine keeps talking shit about (note these are the same magazines that tell obese people they should be eating low-fat, low protein high carb diets lmao)
As for going about something like this, well I'm not entirely sure, I don't feel confident suggesting any method of approach until I understand the mechanics behind this phenomena.[/QUOTE]
( complete ) fasting is retarded wow
[editline]25th April 2011[/editline]
how you cats like my new avatar
i like it more than that ripped 8 year old with his sisters dressed up like hookers that i had on casusv2
[editline]25th April 2011[/editline]
hoh boy also forgot about genetics , keep inmind we are talking about genetic elite ( thats why they are in bodybuilding contests [ we all know these kinds of people {or the polar opposites, but im putting 80/20 on genetic elite and skinny fucks respectively} tend to gravitate torwards these type of activities])
hoh boy i love brackets
I'm not talking about pro bodybuilders dawg. Mostly just dudes who do it amateur.
There's one guy on the t-nation forums who had this discussion particularly, he was never genetically gifted and was actually a former fat boy before he got into bodybuilding.
Muscle memory does definitely play a big part (I've experienced first hand just how quickly that shit kicks in) but like I said, no-one understands what accounts for the new lean tissue. Because these are also mostly advanced or at least intermediate trained individuals.
At any rate, it's interesting to say the least. Not something I'd ever seriously consider or recommend doing in the vain hope that you hit ~MAGIC GAINS~ especially when nobody has any fucking clue how it happens
I said at a more intense rate :) Everyone can do it, you're simply (ab)using the adoption of your body under stress. The more stress you have, the bigger your gains in any sort of function.
But don't jump on me that training 7x a week over a year or so or exercising to muscle failure or stretching 'til tendon soreness and so on and so on is bad for you. That should be obvious, you can't stretch this principle to extremes, then it's simply bad.("true" overtraining) Also don't take this stress method as the real deal, everyone needs a program specially made for him; by themselves.
Some go great with daily training with just low intensity, others need splits, others need other stuff.
What you do is you scratch on the overtraining, slightly overreaching and exhausting yourself.
This could look like 2 weeks on -> ignoring any pain and soreness that WILL follow, just going through it and having fun with your "inner animal" ( sorry for this term, i can't think of any better :D ); then 1 week off, doing only regenerative activities, like very light cardio or swimming.
But what's truly the shit, it works like a charm if you have the mindset. Been into real overtraining sometimes from my preferred sport (pretty much accumulated over months, sometimes weeks) and after taking a real break from all of it, you see nice improvements when you start again.
The down time sucks though, you really need rest or else you bust yourself and the break just extends :(
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;29421301]I'm not talking about pro bodybuilders dawg. Mostly just dudes who do it amateur.
There's one guy on the t-nation forums who had this discussion particularly, he was never genetically gifted and was actually a former fat boy before he got into bodybuilding.
Muscle memory does definitely play a big part (I've experienced first hand just how quickly that shit kicks in) but like I said, no-one understands what accounts for the new lean tissue. Because these are also mostly advanced or at least intermediate trained individuals.
At any rate, it's interesting to say the least. Not something I'd ever seriously consider or recommend doing in the vain hope that you hit ~MAGIC GAINS~ especially when nobody has any fucking clue how it happens[/QUOTE]
humm fat guy with no musclular stimuli = no gains nukka dont u know nothing??
[editline]25th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=WuWei;29421809]I said at a more intense rate :) Everyone can do it, you're simply (ab)using the adoption of your body under stress. The more stress you have, the bigger your gains in any sort of function.
But don't jump on me that training 7x a week over a year or so or exercising to muscle failure or stretching 'til tendon soreness and so on and so on is bad for you. That should be obvious, you can't stretch this principle to extremes, then it's simply bad.("true" overtraining) Also don't take this stress method as the real deal, everyone needs a program specially made for him; by themselves.
Some go great with daily training with just low intensity, others need splits, others need other stuff.
What you do is you scratch on the overtraining, slightly overreaching and exhausting yourself.
This could look like 2 weeks on -> ignoring any pain and soreness that WILL follow, just going through it and having fun with your "inner animal" ( sorry for this term, i can't think of any better :D ); then 1 week off, doing only regenerative activities, like very light cardio or swimming.
But what's truly the shit, it works like a charm if you have the mindset. Been into real overtraining sometimes from my preferred sport (pretty much accumulated over months, sometimes weeks) and after taking a real break from all of it, you see nice improvements when you start again.
The down time sucks though, you really need rest or else you bust yourself and the break just extends :([/QUOTE]
i have no idea what you just said
You guys are focused on stuff for the advanced++. Even 5 years into training isn't suffice enough in my eyes to be able to even need those kinds of stuff. Basic compounds, eat, sleep and fuck off.
[QUOTE=caaaasus;29422195]humm fat guy with no musclular stimuli = no gains nukka dont u know nothing??
[editline]25th April 2011[/editline]
i have no idea what you just said[/QUOTE]
I said that cycling between slight overtraining and long regeneration phases leads to nice gains in any physical ability for some of us.
[QUOTE=caaaasus;29422195]humm fat guy with no musclular stimuli = no gains nukka dont u know nothing??
[/QUOTE]
hnngeee casus sometimes i wonder if u purposefully misread stuff to say sumthing stupid
He was a fatboy BEFORE he got into bodybuilding, 5+ years of training later he's an advanced trainee. The discussion I mentioned wasn't like him detailing noob gains or something. This guy has been competeing for a while.
[editline]25th April 2011[/editline]
Also there's a coach by the name of Charles Poliquin who says he sometimes purposefully overtains (to the point of depression and muscle loss in his words) his bodybuilder clients to elicit massive gains after they recover. A sort of shock therapy if you will.
Poliquin is a respected name, but he also talks alot of shit IMO so take it with a grain of salt.
[editline]25th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Seith;29422274]You guys are focused on stuff for the advanced++. Even 5 years into training isn't suffice enough in my eyes to be able to even need those kinds of stuff. Basic compounds, eat, sleep and fuck off.[/QUOTE]
What the fuck.
Did I ever say "HEY GUYS YOU NEED TO TRY THIS OH MY FUCK ITS SO GREAT"
It's just interesting is all. I'm in no way advocating anybody here actually pursues this.
Shock therapy, muscles loss and depression are three good keywords why you should pay attention to your body while you do this.
Listening closely to what it tells you is important, and for that, you need experience.
Found something similar to what you posted:
[url]http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ian4.htm[/url]
it's pretty interesting stuff.
[quote]"Have you ever gained 22 pounds in 11 hours? Have you ever dramatically improved your strength in a single day just from changing your diet? Well I have."[/quote]
that kind of introduction is hilarious - i did the question shit back in like middle school
I know a guy that cut weight for an MMA fight and gained almost 25 pounds after weigh-ins before fighting the next day. I know a lot of that is water weight and whatnot, but it's still impressive.
[QUOTE=MaverickIB;29436324]I know a guy that cut weight for an MMA fight and gained almost 25 pounds after weigh-ins before fighting the next day. I know a lot of that is water weight and whatnot, but it's still impressive.[/QUOTE]
yeah, probably from all the carbs too since for every 1 gram of carb it absorbs 2-3 grams of water so he was probably cutting a lot of carbs and shit, then after weigh ins ate a fuckton of carbs lol I gained 14 pounds after easter eating a shitload of candy. :S
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