Swiss school allows exemption for Muslim teens who refused to shake hands with female teachers - Polidicks

[quote]It's widespread practice for schoolchildren in Switzerland to shake the hands of their teacher at the beginning and end of each day. Now, one school's decision to exempt two children from this tradition – because the children are Muslim and their teacher is a woman – has caused a storm of controversy across the European state. The two pupils at the school in the town of Therwil, near Basel, had requested an exemption from shaking a female teacher's hand, citing their belief that it would go against Islamic teachings. The local school district later came up with what they felt was an acceptable compromise that could avoid discrimination: The pupils, who are age 14 and 15, would not be required to shake any teachers' hands, whether they were male or female. However, the plan hit a hitch when the Schweiz am Sonntag newspaper reported on it, sparking a public debate about the compromise. "We cannot accept this in the name of religious freedom," Swiss Justice Minister Simonetta Sommaruga said in [URL="http://www.24heures.ch/suisse/Ne-pas-serrer-la-main-de-sa-prof-la-dispense-explosive/story/14724205"]an interview with Swiss-German broadcaster SRF[/URL]. "The handshake is part of our culture.” Others agreed. "Today's it's the handshake, and what will it be tomorrow?" Felix Mueri, a member of the anti-immigration Swiss People's Party and head of the Swiss parliament's education commission, said in an interview with the [URL="http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/news/story/14486343"]20 Minuten news site[/URL].[/quote] [URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/04/06/switzerland-shocked-by-muslim-teens-who-refused-to-shake-hands-with-female-teachers/[/URL]

Glad to see that religious freedom to establish segregation against gays and women isn't just an American-led development. What a progressive world we are living in gentlemen.

They shouldn't have exempted them.

[quote]the pupils, who are age 14 and 15, would not be required to shake any teachers' hands, whether they were male or female.[/quote] I don't see the problem? They aren't forcing other students to bend to their will, nor are they making it so all schools must do this. In fact, this whole "outrage" is really petty [quote]"Today's it's the handshake, and what will it be tomorrow?"[/quote] This seems like a massive overreaction

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50087555]I don't see the problem? They aren't forcing other students to bend to their will, nor are they making it so all schools must do this. In fact, this whole "outrage" is really petty[/QUOTE] But they are doing it to allow inherently sexist attitudes to flourish. How can you see there is not a problem with this?

[QUOTE=Mr. N;50087568]But they are doing it to allow inherently sexist attitudes to flourish. How can you see there is not a problem with this?[/QUOTE] I guess the sexist aspect of it is a problem, I'll concede to that, but the reaction of people saying "today it's the handshake, what will it be tomorrow" makes it sound like the teachers will have to accept massed executions or something

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50087555] This seems like a massive overreaction[/QUOTE] The Swiss People's Party is a far-right nuthouse that opposes maternity leave and supports deporting foreign criminals, anything they say is going to be ridiculous. Really though I think if another person didn't want to shake hands with their teacher there'd be no problem, and honestly what's the point of kicking up a fuss about shaking hands? It's not like they're refusing to be in the same room as a female teacher.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50087580]I guess the sexist aspect of it is a problem, I'll concede to that, but the reaction of people saying "today it's the handshake, what will it be tomorrow" makes it sound like the teachers will have to accept massed executions or something[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50087555]I don't see the problem? They aren't forcing other students to bend to their will, nor are they making it so all schools must do this. In fact, this whole "outrage" is really petty This seems like a massive overreaction[/QUOTE] You literally live in a country where one of our states just passed a religious freedom bill to reduce the rights of LGBT people, and yet you can't seem to comprehend the sexist undertones of what this measure of division means, albeit a handshake. That if somebody's religious beliefs are "offended" it's perfectly fine and they get a free pass to be a shitty person because of it. Letting people get away with shit like this leads to bills like that.

I don't see the problem? They're just making sure people who don't view women as equal to men are not forced to treat them as equals. Gotta respect their beliefs after all, I'm sure they'll eventually come around!

Why? Does Islam forbid shaking hands with women or something?

Islamic culture is reactionary and backwards, it shouldn't be catered to in the enlightened, liberalized west imo

Seems more silly everyone else is required to shake hands in the first place.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50087555]I don't see the problem? They aren't forcing other students to bend to their will, nor are they making it so all schools must do this. In fact, this whole "outrage" is really petty This seems like a massive overreaction[/QUOTE] Assuming this is most likely related to the belief that women aren't equal to men then this is a pretty bad thing to cater.

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;50087683]Why? Does Islam forbid shaking hands with women or something?[/QUOTE] With a certain reading of the texts? Sure it does. [editline]7th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Mingebox;50087694]Seems more silly everyone else is required to shake hands in the first place.[/QUOTE] Fair enough, but this has nothing to do with that.

Some snippets from the article that I think are important for context: [quote]Canton education chief Monica Gschwind suggested to reporters that it was a [b]temporary and "pragmatic" measure.[/b][/quote] "It" referring to "The pupils, who are age 14 and 15, would not be required to shake any teachers' hands, whether they were male or female." and perhaps more importantly: [quote][b]The Swiss Muslim community has largely suggested that the boys are misinterpreting Islamic teachings with their refusal to shake their teachers' hands.[/b] "[To] the students and parents I would suggest the following reflection: Can the denial of shaking hands be more important than the Islamic commandment of mutual respect?" Montassar Ben Mrad, president of Federation of Islamic Organizations in Switzerland, said in the statement.[/quote] Sounds to me like it's a problem with the individual upbringing of those two students and the school panicking because every possible response could be presented as a shitstorm starter.

[QUOTE=Marik Bentusi;50087754][quote]The Swiss Muslim community has largely suggested that the boys are misinterpreting Islamic teachings with their refusal to shake their teachers' hands. "[To] the students and parents I would suggest the following reflection: Can the denial of shaking hands be more important than the Islamic commandment of mutual respect?" Montassar Ben Mrad, president of Federation of Islamic Organizations in Switzerland, said in the statement.[/quote] Sounds to me like it's a problem with the individual upbringing of those two students and the school panicking because every possible response could be presented as a shitstorm starter.[/QUOTE] This simply speaks to how huge of a problem this is. If you can plausibly read "don't touch women" from the texts, and also read "the Islamic commandment of mutual respect" then on who's authority do you say which interpretation is correct?

I can see how this will scale out of control, two kids today, a ton more tomorrow.

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;50087683]Why? Does Islam forbid shaking hands with women or something?[/QUOTE] not really. unfortunately much of the muslim population lives in areas with lack of education/exposure and is very socially conservative.

[QUOTE=Pantz Master;50087773]This simply speaks to how huge of a problem this is. If you can plausibly read "don't touch women" from the texts, and also read "the Islamic commandment of mutual respect" then on who's authority do you say which interpretation is correct?[/QUOTE] Don't act like this is purely an Islamic thing. You can plausibly read anything from anything, the people who's opinions matter are the people who understand and are educated formally in the interpretation of texts.

This could set a terrible precedent, it's enabling the most sexist parts of Islam and goes against any real attempt at integration, shaking hands at school might be inconsequential, but how about at a job interview, I'd hate to see a repeat of what happened in Sweden where a Muslim man refused to shake hands with his would-be boss because she was female, so he didn't get the job, he sued her and won citing discrimination.

[QUOTE=Pantz Master;50087773]This simply speaks to how huge of a problem this is. If you can plausibly read "don't touch women" from the texts, and also read "the Islamic commandment of mutual respect" then on who's authority do you say which interpretation is correct?[/QUOTE] I personally know plenty of Muslims who won't shake hands with the opposite sex. So it's not some crazy extremist belief.

[QUOTE=Dr. Ethan Asia;50087590]The Swiss People's Party is a far-right nuthouse that opposes maternity leave and supports deporting foreign criminals, anything they say is going to be ridiculous.[/QUOTE] ...did you read the article? At all? [QUOTE]We cannot accept this in the name of religious freedom," Swiss Justice Minister Simonetta Sommaruga said in an interview with Swiss-German broadcaster SRF. "The handshake is part of our culture.”[/QUOTE] Simonetta Sommaruga is from the left wing SP you dolt. Both sides say the same thing, this has literally nothing to do with the SVP.

[QUOTE=Pantz Master;50087773]This simply speaks to how huge of a problem this is. If you can plausibly read "don't touch women" from the texts, and also read "the Islamic commandment of mutual respect" then on who's authority do you say which interpretation is correct?[/QUOTE] I don't have any significant knowledge on Islamic texts, so I can't give any worthwhile input on that matter one way or another. That said, the speculative situation that immediately popped into my head was that these teenagers simply parroted the same justification their parents (more likely father, based on this stuff discriminating against women?) gave them to get them to accept their parenting lessons without asking further questions. If the likeliness of these teenagers actually having read the Koran is anywhere near as low as Christian teenagers having actually read the Bible, then their parents could have easily imbued quotes with their own opinions and agendas by stripping them of their original context (pretty common technique all around) and strengthening them through religious authority on top of parental authority. Fap and Jesus will hate you, catch the Gay and you'll burn in hell, etc. Religion's abused all the time for this stupid shit. So in that case the core problem of the situation would be those teenagers' parents abusing religion as a parenting tool. But I have no idea how far from/close to the truth that speculative situation actually is. Could very well be pure BS.

[QUOTE=Doom64hunter;50087892]...did you read the article? At all? Simonetta Sommaruga is from the left wing SP you dolt. Both sides say the same thing, this has literally nothing to do with the SVP.[/QUOTE] I was commenting on the slippery slope argument, which is why I quoted Zilla's post. You dolt.

[QUOTE=Mingebox;50087694]Seems more silly everyone else is required to shake hands in the first place.[/QUOTE] I mean if a teacher goes to shake a pupil's hand and he refuses that's very rude, but I guess it's not worth making a huge fuss about. Now if he refuses because of openly sexist reasons I don't think anyone should be ok with that. You don't want to teach kids that this is an acceptable attitude to have. I don't think this is really about the handshake (though I don't know if this is a big deal in Basel, it wasn't where I live). It's about female teachers not having to be treated as inferior by their pupils.

[quote]Others agreed. "Today's it's the handshake, and what will it be tomorrow?"[/quote] The 8th of April.

[QUOTE=Dr. Ethan Asia;50087848]Don't act like this is purely an Islamic thing. You can plausibly read anything from anything, [B]the people who's opinions matter are the people who understand and are educated formally in the interpretation of texts.[/B][/QUOTE] Like Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi? He has a BA, MA, and PhD in Islamic studies from the Islamic University of Baghdad.

The reasoning behind them not wanting to shake their female teacher's hand is openly sexist. We're supposed to be a rational, enlightened society where decisions are based on logic... what is this? Because Allah said women are inferior? What? It's actually pretty bad.

You really can't, and it's nonsensical to try to, force someone to do a handshake regardless of what their reason for not doing it is.

In a certain odd way, its good these things become controversies. Kids who grew up in this conservative culture will be exposed to new ideas that their parents were not, so they have a greater chance becoming more secular. I wish those kids the best of luck.