Good video
[video=youtube;5AkAGc5nOXw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AkAGc5nOXw[/video]
ever thought about this
blame the fucking people not the religion
The only part of this video that isn't stupid is that yes, trying to protect Islam from criticism is stupid. It should be just as open to criticism as anything else.
I haven't watched the video yet.
But from what i experienced,its the people fault,not the religion.
i even found a dumbass post that say they allowed to kill "kafir" just because he/she have different religion.
Again,its the retarded people fault that use religion to justify anything,damaging the image
Let me put it like this: Muslims are just as capable of ignoring their holy texts and being peaceful as Christians are. Or in a nice non-edgy atheist way, both are perfectly capable of interpreting their religion in a different way from the literal text. (wrote this before watching)
Actually the video wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, when I saw it was praeger university I thought it'd just be some garbage but honestly I can't find too much I disagree with. The tl;dr of it is that we shouldn't make excuses for shitty people who are muslims, we shouldn't prevent the religion from being criticized, and we should support reformers within the religion.
Hell, she was listing off examples of things that can get you killed in Islam, and quite a few of those apply in Christianity such as adultery, homosexuality, etc.. But people don't really die for those now. Just an example that religions adherents can reform
[QUOTE=Saturn V;51197821]ever thought about this
blame the fucking people not the religion[/QUOTE]
People came up with the concept of religion.
[QUOTE=Saturn V;51197821]ever thought about this
blame the fucking people not the religion[/QUOTE]
:downs: Have you even watched video? The narrators was muslim and experienced Islam first part in more than one country.
[QUOTE=Saturn V;51197821]ever thought about this
blame the fucking people not the religion[/QUOTE]
how about you dont comment on things you know nothing about
To some Muslims it is and to some it isn't.
I want to say that the religion itself is fine as well as a majority of the people. However, the ideas are terrible and that leads many (still a minority however) to turn to such things as extremism.
This of course doesn't apply to just this religion but all of them.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51198009]To almost all Muslims it is, to most news-cycle followers it isnt, to people who dont think beyond the surface and find solace and clarity in blaming a 1400 year old religion for mortal 20th century people's stupidity and retardation it isnt.[/QUOTE]
No no no don't you know us arabs are an hivemind ready to spontanously explode for 72 virgins at the right moment?
:snip:
Is prageru a biased, propagandistic YouTube channel? Should be their next video title.
Are these even made by a university? They always only push a rightist viewpoint and never mention counterarguments.
[QUOTE=Saturn V;51197821]ever thought about this
blame the fucking people not the religion[/QUOTE]
People are a product of their upbringing. That's been a norm in any western Code of Law for decades.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51198041]The "ideas", by which I assume you mean what is said in the Quran and what consists the undeniable core of the religion, dont contribute to anyone's turning to extremism. The sole responsibility lies on socioeconomics and therefore the history, background, of the person.
Religions are easy to rationalize, because they arent ideologies. They arent meant to be taken literally. So they dont really contribute to people's turn towards doing bad. Some people make ideologies based on them and make the gullible eat them up, for various motives.
Atheism doesnt fix extremism. Prosperity does. Human development does.[/QUOTE]
Are you sure bombing the hell out of them, instigating coups on democratically elected leaders and never contributing to the recovery of their infastructure that we destroyed for decades doesn't curb extremeism?
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51198041]The "ideas", by which I assume you mean what is said in the Quran and what consists the undeniable core of the religion, dont contribute to anyone's turning to extremism. The sole responsibility lies on socioeconomics and therefore the history, background, of the person.
Religions are easy to rationalize, because they arent ideologies. They arent meant to be taken literally. So they dont really contribute to people's turn towards doing bad. Some people make ideologies based on them and make the gullible eat them up, for various motives.
Atheism doesnt fix extremism. Prosperity does. Human development does.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying that the core of the religion is the root of extremism. I'm not saying religion is the cause of extremism. What I meant is that certain ideas in religion may contribute to extremism. Sorry if there was confusion there. That is not to say that religion is the "root of all evil" though. Anyone can take on any cause for any reason.
[QUOTE=SirJon;51198060]People are a product of their upbringing. That's been a norm in any western Code of Law for decades.[/QUOTE]
while upbringing in these kinds of countries may seem to be based on religion at first glance, that's not the case. these countries are simply ruled by moronic cuntwads who impose their retarded ideas under the guise of religion and through this kind of process the people in nations like these are more likely to subscribe to values that, despite being in their religious book, are just agendas being pushed by their shitty governments
I was agreeing the video until they they started bashing liberals and progressives.
Like what the fuck? I was totally in agreement until you brought up your political agenda and shoved it down my throat.
It's Dennis Prager, don't expect him to keep a sane point for long... my parents love him...
I go about it this way: I hate Islam. Islam is terrible. But Muslims can be pretty great, on a case by case basis.
In this case, I don't hate someone for their religion. It's how the choose to enact that religion, and how they balance that with basic human decency.
But I do think basically all religions have a dark literal core that is utterly incompatible with (and inferior to) hard-earned secular wisdom.
The only religion I can name that generally causes no problems is the Jains, and that is wholly because the central tenant of the faith is total pacifism. And even THAT is baseless wishy-washy armchair philosophizing.
I see religions like I see car dealerships. We don't need them to be happy and function properly... but we'll be told by everyone with an ax to grind that it would be chaos without them. It's all a racket.
video has an agenda
no religion is inherently peaceful
religions can have peaceful tenets
all you need to know really
[QUOTE=Jouska;51198031]No no no don't you know us arabs are an hivemind ready to spontanously explode for 72 virgins at the right moment?[/QUOTE]
I dont understand this. Just because 1 doesnt follow 99 others, does it automatically mean that arabs are not hiveminds?
these prager vids are full of shit most of the time, but this one has some good points. Islam is inherently intolerant and if you consider polls, a huge chunk of muslims worldwide have extremist ideals.
[QUOTE=Saturn V;51197821]ever thought about this
blame the fucking people not the religion[/QUOTE]
Seeing as islam the religion has tons of violent and intolerant shit in its teachings, shouldn't we blame the religion too? Ideas can sometimes manifest above people. Religion and sects are very good examples of that.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51198082]Yes but the book doesnt bring them up, their parents do. And the community. And both are effected by socioeconomics. Book is negligible. Religion shouldnt be the topic we discuss.[/QUOTE]
But religious figures are also responsible for religious people's upbringing?
[QUOTE=joshuadim;51198146]I was agreeing the video until they they started bashing liberals and progressives.
Like what the fuck? I was totally in agreement until you brought up your political agenda and shoved it down my throat.[/QUOTE]
If I don't agree with one thing, I don't agree with anything.
[QUOTE=Saturn V;51198081]while upbringing in these kinds of countries may seem to be based on religion at first glance, that's not the case. these countries are simply ruled by moronic cuntwads who impose their retarded ideas under the guise of religion and through this kind of process the people in nations like these are more likely to subscribe to values that, despite being in their religious book, are just agendas being pushed by their shitty governments[/QUOTE]
"Final hearing for Christian woman facing execution for blasphemy in Pakistan"
[url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1537091[/url]
"It's not Islams fault!"
Yes actually it is because Pakistan is not secular country. It's Islamic state, which means it's governed by ISLAM (not by some western-like law).
Still agree with you on 'moronic cuntwads' part. The leaders could know any better, but if people support them (or don't protest against their action), then it will stay that way - you can't blame only leader for everything.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51198075]Ayaan Hirsi Ali isnt a Muslim. She is an atheist. She suffered under a misogynistic peasant of a father, now she blames an entire religion for her troubles. I say this hurts her credibility. Christian and Animist Africans arrange marriages, mutilate females and are polygamous as well.
And "reform" is a meaningless concept. Christian reformation didnt solve any problems, it was a bloodbath. And Jewish "reformation" was entirely politically driven (liberalism). European Christians and Jews are the way they are since at most 19th century, before that heretics and blasphemers were fleeing to America still, what solved these were development. Socioeconomic and political development. Prosperity.
I therefore find this video meaningless and empty, if not wrong. She might have done good by attracting attenton to women's rights in Africa but her views, I cant agree.[/QUOTE]
Correct, my bad. She is atheist but she did lived in muslim family and environment, so she has muslim roots.
She has done a more than just stuff in Africa though.
And like there isn't bloodbath happening in lots of Islamic states.
[QUOTE=rndgenerator;51198383]Seeing as islam the religion has tons of violent and intolerant shit in its teachings, shouldn't we blame the religion too? Ideas can sometimes manifest above people. Religion and sects are very good examples of that.[/QUOTE]
read my post above
it addresses your concern
I wonder if any of you guys ever read the Koran OR EVEN a part of it.
I need to get my ass going to fully read it one day though to fully see it's narrative.
religion which isn't reforming and adapting to progress is as dangerous as any other fanatics excuse ...
religion which has schism since just after the key prophets death sort of never-ending internal war
religion where the moderate views are lesser by the time while more strict radical are stronger over time
religion where branches support no woman, minority, other religion or free will rights
religion which needs 'key' figures behind all branches come to reform council and united vote it in and put theirs dark ages behind
religion where whole countries under it are unable to get rid of fanatics nor actively fight them locally and nearby, even tolerate them or even support them
religion of peace ? ... you figure ...
she sounds like the muslim version of milo yiannopoulos lmfao
Progressives look down on criticism of Islam because with the current political environment, most of it is or is seen as hostile. Hostile criticism only increases opposition support, and is going to make reform more difficult.
Real change of Islam is going to come from within, and supporting/covering reformers is what's truly going to help.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
