UN investigation to finally confirm.....if chemical weapons were used in Syria. - Polidicks

[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24088277[/url] [quote] A UN report expected next week will "overwhelmingly" confirm that chemical weapons were used in Syria last month, the secretary general says. Ban Ki-moon made no comment on who was to blame for the 21 August attack in the Ghouta area of Damascus, as that is not part of the report's remit.[/quote]

I thought the UN was trying to figure out who used them, not if they were used. Ugh.

[media][URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZoNWoX3mKo[/URL][/media]

[QUOTE=teh pirate;42183623]I thought the UN was trying to figure out who used them, not if they were used. Ugh.[/QUOTE] Afaik that is impossible, though, if I were to bet my money on anyone, it would be the rebels. Assad wouldn't be foolish enough to use chem weapons in a situation where he knew he had the upperhand, and would merely bring the wrath of the rest of the world upon him.

[QUOTE=teh pirate;42183623]I thought the UN was trying to figure out who used them, not if they were used. Ugh.[/QUOTE] [B]NO[/B] Has my constant saying of this over the last few weeks been seen by everyone? UN weapon inspectors don't have the ability to determine this. Even if they did it would be pretty bad for the UN to stop being impartial and apportion blame.

[QUOTE=The fox;42183633]Afaik that is impossible, though, if I were to bet my money on anyone, it would be the rebels. Assad wouldn't be foolish enough to use chem weapons in a situation where he knew he had the upperhand, and would merely bring the wrath of the rest of the world upon him.[/QUOTE] Like how he wouldn't be stupid enough to [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houla_massacre]let his soldiers massacre 108 civilians including 49 children while UN observers were in the country[/url]

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[QUOTE=The fox;42183633]Afaik that is impossible, though, if I were to bet my money on anyone, it would be the rebels. Assad wouldn't be foolish enough to use chem weapons in a situation where he knew he had the upperhand, and would merely bring the wrath of the rest of the world upon him.[/QUOTE] [quote=BBC]Ban Ki-moon made no comment on who was to blame for the 21 August attack in the Ghouta area of Damascus, as that is not part of the report's remit. But he did say Syria's president was guilty of "crimes against humanity".[/quote] yeah of course why would assad ever do anything bad And clearly he's not foolish as long as people like you are willing to golfclap an evil dictator.

It doesn't matter if Assad is an evil dictator or not. The rebels are just as bad. I just don't get how after 100k people are killed in this internal war, now they suddenly jump on the bandwagon of who-did-what and talk about this hypocritical bullshit of saving people. [IMG]https://scontent-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/p480x480/1184947_10151655097941840_1026027557_n.jpg[/IMG] [highlight](User was banned for this post ("image macro" - postal))[/highlight]

they can determine which manufacturing process was used to produce sarin. Obviously if it was homemade then it wasn't used by Assad

[url]http://www.amnesty.org/es/node/42752[/url] Relevant

[QUOTE=Jsm;42183735]Even if they did it would be pretty bad for the UN to stop being impartial and apportion blame.[/QUOTE] So... it would be bad for the UN to find out who broke their laws? (That is what the earlier part of your post was referencing)

[QUOTE=ArkKnight;42185081]So... it would be bad for the UN to find out who broke their laws? (That is what the earlier part of your post was referencing)[/QUOTE] The laws aren't the laws of the UN. More importantly had they been trying to determine blame they would not have been allowed in (by either side). The fact the UN (as a body) remains neutral in matters like this is important.

[QUOTE=Saxon;42184844]they can determine which manufacturing process was used to produce sarin. Obviously if it was homemade then it wasn't used by Assad[/QUOTE] Assuming the rebels couldn't get black market chemical weapons.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;42184032]yeah of course why would assad ever do anything bad And clearly he's not foolish as long as people like you are willing to golfclap an [b]evil[/b] dictator.[/QUOTE]Oh come on, seriously? Are we handwaving possible motives (or lack thereof) of a politician away because he's apparently "evil" now? As if that characteristic even exists, for fuck's sake.

[QUOTE=Del91;42186553]Assuming the rebels couldn't get black market chemical weapons.[/QUOTE] or steal/find them in the chaos of a civil war.

[QUOTE=TheProfane;42184732]It doesn't matter if Assad is an evil dictator or not. The rebels are just as bad. I just don't get how after 100k people are killed in this internal war, now they suddenly jump on the bandwagon of who-did-what and talk about this hypocritical bullshit of saving people. [IMG]https://scontent-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/p480x480/1184947_10151655097941840_1026027557_n.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] You can make any civil war look dumb using that structure. "Americans killing Americans to stop Americans from continuing to enslave Americans On the other side Americans killing Americans so they can enslave Americans" "The English killing the English because they don't want the English to be ruled by a English person but instead want another English person"

[QUOTE=gudman;42186952]Oh come on, seriously? Are we handwaving possible motives (or lack thereof) of a politician away because he's apparently "evil" now? As if that characteristic even exists, for fuck's sake.[/QUOTE] Almost all of his crimes against humanity made no sense. Airstrikes on rallies? who the fuck does that lmao. Its what caused his army to defect to the opposition in the first place and start the civil war. Ordering his snipers to only shoot civilian children and ignore the rebels? Whats the sense in that? It made no sense for Saddam to drop chemical weapons on the Kurdish villages when his tank divisions were crushing them. Chemical weapons are terror weapons, and they're used for crushing dissent. It truly amazes me that people are so desperate to believe the narrative that its some lame tom clancy plot of shadowy terrorists that somehow managed to pull off a massive chemical artillery barrage on their own positions at the same time of a government offensive without any evidence that they have any capability to do anything like that. Yet somehow its inconceivable that a murderous dictatorship which really has no qualms with massacring thousands upon thousands civilians and using heavy weapons on population centres, and actually has a secret chemical weapons program, and actually has chemical weapons to be used in times like this would ever do such a thing. So don't talk about logic~ when you're trying to dismiss the fact that Assad 'would never do such a thing'.

[QUOTE=TheProfane;42184732]It doesn't matter if Assad is an evil dictator or not. The rebels are just as bad. I just don't get how after 100k people are killed in this internal war, now they suddenly jump on the bandwagon of who-did-what and talk about this hypocritical bullshit of saving people. [IMG]https://scontent-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/p480x480/1184947_10151655097941840_1026027557_n.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] An syrian regime breaking international laws and killing thousands of innocent people using illegal chemical warfare but nope to you it's just them silly kids killing eachother. It doesnt matter what war or country they were in, Thousands of innocent people were killed. [editline]14th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=The fox;42183633]Afaik that is impossible, though, if I were to bet my money on anyone, it would be the rebels. Assad wouldn't be foolish enough to use chem weapons in a situation where he knew he had the upperhand, and would merely bring the wrath of the rest of the world upon him.[/QUOTE] Why do people always try to make dumb conspiracy theories after every big event? Are you telling me that after all the incredibly stupid things the regime did you still don't think they are not dumb enough to break a few international laws? Also you have to be pretty dumb to think the rebels somehow gotten chemical weapons and used it on innocent people instead of the regime. Even after common sense and government intelligence says otherwise.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;42188026] It truly amazes me that people are so desperate to believe the narrative that its some lame tom clancy plot of shadowy terrorists that somehow managed to pull off a massive chemical artillery barrage on their own positions at the same time of a government offensive without any evidence that they have any capability to do anything like that. Yet somehow its inconceivable that a murderous dictatorship which really has no qualms with massacring thousands upon thousands civilians and using heavy weapons on population centres, and actually has a secret chemical weapons program, and actually has chemical weapons to be used in times like this would ever do such a thing. So don't talk about logic~ when you're trying to dismiss the fact that Assad 'would never do such a thing'.[/QUOTE] While I agree with you about these actions making no sense (to you/to us, it all probably made a lot of sense to Assad and Saddam), this here is just wrong. First off, no one believes in a "shadowy terrorists" or some shit like that. There're no less evidence of rebels doing not much less nasty shit than Assad's loyal military, sometimes, even worse, so it's not that big of a stretch to at least suspect them of being able to do this precise stunt. Remember please, that "Rebels" are not a homogenous entity, it's a lot of groups, some of which are rival to others. Second, there's no evidence about "massive chemical artillery barrage" yet, a lot of UN comissars even doubted that it happened alltogether (hence why there were miltiple comissions sent there, one of which was even attacked). All that is known currently, is that there was an instance of chemical weapons used and somewhere between 700 and 1000 people were harmed. There's no agreement yet on how many shells and/or rockets (and their types) were fired. And third, this last paragraph doesn't make any sense. For the record, I don't give a damn about Assad (or rebels for that matter, I would be glad if they all simultaneously just had a heart attack and died, every single one member of the opposing sides, Syria would be better off without terrorists both in casual and in uniform). I care about truth, which relies on evidence, and so far we have very little to non. And no. "Assad did a lot of shit, he could've very well do that too" is not an argument. It's nothing more than it is, a speculation. Saddam could've had a lot of diffirent shit prepared too.

[QUOTE=gudman;42190868]First off, no one believes in a "shadowy terrorists" or some shit like that. There're no less evidence of rebels doing not much less nasty shit than Assad's loyal military, sometimes, even worse, so it's not that big of a stretch to at least suspect them of being able to do this precise stunt. Remember please, that "Rebels" are not a homogenous entity, it's a lot of groups, some of which are rival to others.[/QUOTE] Please provide all this evidence of the rebels doing much more, and far worse than the regime. Because its complete bullshit lmao. The UN has constantly been accusing the Assad regime committing war crimes and crimes against humanity on civilians for years. Where as there simply is no comparison to the stuff the rebels have pulled. "UN inspections and probes in Syria have determined that the Syrian government's abuses are highest in frequency and largest in scale" [quote=BBC]The UN report documents the last three months in Syria, during which, the investigators say, the violence has reached new and terrible levels. They have evidence that Syrian forces have shot dead women and children, subjected civilian areas to merciless shelling, and tortured wounded protestors in hospital. These systematic violations were ordered by high ranking figures in the military and government, the report says. The investigators have compiled a confidential list of names of those they believe are responsible and sent it to the UN Human Rights Commissioner. The implication is that those people- and President Assad is likely to be among them - will one day appear at the International Criminal Court.[/quote] [QUOTE=gudman;42190868]Second, there's no evidence about "massive chemical artillery barrage" yet, a lot of UN comissars even doubted that it happened alltogether (hence why there were miltiple comissions sent there, one of which was even attacked). All that is known currently, is that there was an instance of chemical weapons used and somewhere between 700 and 1000 people were harmed. There's no agreement yet on how many shells and/or rockets (and their types) were fired.[/quote] 700-1000 people harmed? Where are you getting this from? Nearly 4000 people were harmed and 1500 people died, including nearly 500 children. [url]http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/08/30/government-assessment-syrian-government-s-use-chemical-weapons-august-21[/url] [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23927399[/url] [img]http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/69784000/jpg/_69784565_chemical_weapon_624_v4.jpg[/img] [QUOTE=gudman;42190868]And third, this last paragraph doesn't make any sense. For the record, I don't give a damn about Assad (or rebels for that matter, I would be glad if they all simultaneously just had a heart attack and died, every single one member of the opposing sides, Syria would be better off without terrorists both in casual and in uniform). I care about truth, which relies on evidence, and so far we have very little to non.[/QUOTE] What happened to the ~Rebels being not a homogenous entity~, and not being ~terrorists~. But yeah thats a pretty creepy thing to say mate. [QUOTE=gudman;42190868]And no. "Assad did a lot of shit, he could've very well do that too" is not an argument. It's nothing more than it is, a speculation. Saddam could've had a lot of diffirent shit prepared too.[/QUOTE] Do you apply this argument every time you see someone go "lol the rebels did it". I bet you don't. But yes it is an argument. He's not exactly known has Bashar "Good Decisions" al-Assad otherwise his country wouldn't be a fucking mess in the first place. And he obviously has complete disregard for killing anyone. Man, women or child.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;42191202]Please provide all this evidence of the rebels doing much more, and far worse than the regime. Because its complete bullshit lmao. The UN has constantly been accusing the Assad regime committing war crimes and crimes against humanity on civilians for years. Where as there simply is no comparison to the stuff the rebels have pulled. "UN inspections and probes in Syria have determined that the Syrian government's abuses are highest in frequency and largest in scale" [/quote] I don't remember ordinary military members cutting peoples' heads and hands off, for example. Also, they didn't execute people for being of the wrong religion. Unlike some groups of rebels. That's not on the same level as full scale bombardments, yes, but I kinda see intentional mutilation as kinda worse stuff. And boasting about it, filming it - even worse. [quote]700-1000 people harmed? Where are you getting this from? Nearly 4000 people were harmed and 1500 people died, including nearly 500 children. [url]http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/08/30/government-assessment-syrian-government-s-use-chemical-weapons-august-21[/url] [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23927399[/url] [/quote] Yeah, I used an outdated source on that. By "harmed" I only counted "killed". Besides, why do you insist on counting children specifically? You expect some kind of emotional response or what? It's a fucking gas, it doesn't discriminate, of course children will die with the rest of people. [quote]What happened to the ~Rebels being not a homogenous entity~, and not being ~terrorists~.[/quote] You side with terrorists - you're a terrorist, it's that simple from my point of view. [quote] Do you apply this argument every time you see someone go "lol the rebels did it". I bet you don't. But yes it is an argument. He's not exactly known has Bashar "Good Decisions" al-Assad otherwise his country wouldn't be a fucking mess in the first place. And he obviously has complete disregard for killing anyone. Man, women or child.[/QUOTE] Because no one ever said "lol the rebels did it". It's just you seeing "well I don't see why would Assad do it, I'm waiting for UN investigation to finish" as "lol conspiracy theory", and that's your problem.

[QUOTE=gudman;42191376]I don't remember ordinary military members cutting peoples' heads and hands off, for example. Also, they didn't execute people for being of the wrong religion. Unlike some groups of rebels. That's not on the same level as full scale bombardments, yes, but I kinda see intentional mutilation as kinda worse stuff. And boasting about it, filming it - even worse.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23397004[/url] they like burning children alive for fun though Or what about how the Syrian government really loves to target children. For killing, torturing, raping and human shields. [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18408317[/url] [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18405800[/url] I mean, are we really going to sit down and compare our atrocity dicks. I would much prefer if you just actually looked at the conflict yourself and save me a lot of time.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;42191390][url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23397004[/url] they like burning children alive for fun though I mean, are we really going to sit down and compare our atrocity dicks. I would much prefer if you just actually looked at the conflict yourself and save me a lot of time.[/QUOTE] Claim with no evidence: first paragraph: "activist groups say". And I agree. And I'm looking at this conflict as hard as I can, and I see a complicated entity, instead of "lol Assad evil".

[QUOTE=gudman;42191422]Claim with no evidence: first paragraph: "activist groups say". And I agree. And I'm looking at this conflict as hard as I can, and I see a complicated entity, instead of "lol Assad evil".[/QUOTE] Where is your evidence that the rebels are as bad as you say. Apart from "The regime says". I mean, you say that the regime doesn't execute people based on religion, then explain all the alawite militias that massacre sunni villages.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;42191432]Where is your evidence that the rebels are as bad as you say. Apart from "The regime says".[/QUOTE] Except they film it and put it on the internet themselves, right.

[QUOTE=gudman;42191446]Except they film it and put it on the internet themselves, right.[/QUOTE] Are there not films of syrian soldiers mutilating civilians? I mean, are you honestly saying the Rebels are worse based off one video of one rebel? Who said he only did it because he found videos on that soldier's phone of him raping and murdering two girls.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;42191452]Are there not films of syrian soldiers mutilating civilians?[/QUOTE] Filmed by Syrian soldiers themselves for the purpose of some weird sort of propaganda? No. And I'm yet to see a single clip of a soldier intentionally mutilating a civilian. Shooting - yes. Cutting his hands off? No. I never claimed Syrian military consisting of saints. They're just as bad down to individual level. As a bigger entity, and more homogenous (it's a military), they're more organised, capable of more atrocities. If rebels could, they would do the same. [editline]14th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=NoDachi;42191452]Are there not films of syrian soldiers mutilating civilians? I mean, are you honestly saying the Rebels are worse based off one video of one rebel? Who said he only did it because he found videos on that soldier's phone of him raping and murdering two girls.[/QUOTE] Because there're a lot of them on most videos and they're organised? It's never a single rebel.

So you admit when you said this earlier: "There're no less evidence of rebels doing not much less nasty shit than Assad's loyal military, sometimes, even worse" you were wrong?