After Israel releases prisoners, they say they're outraged by the welcome they got and then conclude - Polidicks

[URL]http://news.yahoo.com/kerry-arrives-israel-revive-flailing-peace-talks-131830069.html[/URL] [quote]JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu offered a gloomy assessment of peace prospects with the Palestinians on Thursday as U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry began his 10th visit to the region in pursuit of a deal. "There is growing doubt in Israel that the Palestinians are committed to peace," said Netanyahu, speaking with Kerry at his side and accusing Palestinian officials of orchestrating a campaign of "rampant" incitement against Israel. ... "To glorify the murderers of innocent women and men as heroes is an outrage," he said. The prisoner release was arranged as part of last year's U.S.-brokered package to revive peace talks.[/quote] If it was so bad, why release the "murderers" in the first place if they were so condemnable? Israel already knew they were going to get a loud welcome in Palestine regardless as it has always been the case with prisoner releases. But by releasing prisoners as opposed to stopping settlements and the occupation in the West Bank, Israel will look like they have done something (this is the max compromise they'll do) and also simultaneously put forth excuses as to why they can no longer negotiate so they can persist their illegal occupation. They're looking for a pretext to justify their goal to not concede a single settlement and continue absorbing Palestine (as outline in their Likud charter), and shitty pre-planned excuses like this are one of them.

As long as America is their sugar daddy, they don't have to care. It's basically worked so far, as sad as that is.

I figure I might as well offer my opinion on this. We need a solution that keeps both sides happy, but we have a situation where neither side will be happy unless the other completely ceases to exist. Both sides want to have the other completely wiped out. Israel is half out of it's mind with fear that it is losing the support that Is really all that keeps in alive when COMPLETELY SURROUNDED by nations that, even if they won't admit it, want it destroyed. It figures that the only way to keep secure is to become a police state and desperately try to keep all those who could threaten them away and on the run. It sees Iran getting closer to nuclear weapons, Egypt going through turmoil, war is Syria, and everything else. It is pretty understandable to be scared, and the people inside of it are resorting to extremism because of it. Peace talks won't really change that all it's neighbors want it gone forever, and have wen't to war to achieve it before. The Arab side sees Israel as a tyrannical government, which it is fast on it's way to becoming, that stole it's land and wants more. Religious zeal on top of those pretty much ensure the majority of the middle east hate Israel and anyone inside it. It is gonna be pretty much impossible for it to be solved, and to be honest peace talks change much. I don't think either side really wants them.

The notion of "Israel being surrounded by nations who want to destroy it" is an outdated and tireless fearmongering phrase that belongs in the 20th century. No nation poses a threat to victim-Israel. Jordan is Israel's ally and so was Egypt under Western-backed dictator Mubarak and yet the contrived myth was still perpetuated as if it has some explanation to with Israel maintaining their religious goal in acquiring "Judea and Samira" aka West Bank occupation which was outlined before Israel was even a state. The contrived phrase is meaningless for what Israel does to Palestinians in 2014.

[QUOTE=Starpluck;43398387]The notion of "Israel being surrounded by nations who want to destroy it" is an outdated and tireless fearmongering phrase that belongs in the 20th century. No nation poses a threat to victim-Israel. Jordan is Israel's ally and so was Egypt under Western-backed dictator Mubarak and yet the myth was still perpetuated.[/QUOTE] Traditional governments there might not want Israel gone, but even then that isn't all, and when you see things like revolutions in Egypt, it can get scary. I am pretty sure the average guy in Egypt or Jordan doesn't have the highest opinion. Imagine if a more Islamist party came to power in Egypt, or if Iran had a chance to act.

Bibi's ministers recently proposed annexing parts of the West Bank and stripping away the citizenship of over half of Israel's Arab population and he's the one to make accusations of incitement?

Someone please erase the israeli government from existence somehow

[QUOTE='[sluggo];43398415']Traditional governments there might not want Israel gone, but even then that isn't all, and when you see things like revolutions in Egypt, it can get scary. I am pretty sure the average guy in Egypt or Jordan doesn't have the highest opinion. Imagine if a more Islamist party came to power in Egypt, or if Iran had a chance to act.[/QUOTE] You seem to have this misconception that Arabs are blind savages who possess no ability to think and are genetically coded to attack Israel once the "chance they become a government" The Egyptian blockade wasn't even cancelled. Contrary to Fox News, when Mubarak was ousted and the Brotherhood came in power, they didn't "declare war on Israel" And Israel poses a larger threat to Iran than vice-versa. And yes, rightfully so the average guy in Egypt or Jordan doesn't hold the highest opinion of Israel's actions, not that this is exclusive to Arabs and that Israelis are somehow exempt from this thinking towards Arab states.

[QUOTE=Starpluck;43398471]You seem to have this misconception that Arabs are blind savages who possess no ability to think and are genetically coded to attack Israel once the "chance they become a government" The Egyptian blockade wasn't even cancelled. Contrary to Fox News, when Mubarak was ousted and the Brotherhood came in power, they didn't "declare war on Israel" And Israel poses a larger threat to Iran than vice-versa. And yes, rightfully so the average guy in Egypt or Jordan doesn't hold the highest opinion of Israel's actions, not that this is exclusive to Arabs and that Israelis are somehow exempt from this thinking towards Arab states.[/QUOTE] The blockade wasn't canceled because of US influence in the area. According to this poll: [quote]A high 84 per cent reject the notion of their state's recognition of Israel and only 21 per cent support, to a certain degree, the peace agreement signed between Egypt, Jordan and the PLO with Israel. Less than a third agree with their government's foreign policy.[/quote] [url]http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/03/20123793355501965.html[/url]

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;43398259]As long as America is their sugar daddy, they don't have to care. It's basically worked so far, as sad as that is.[/QUOTE] America is Israel's bitch, they sell American national secrets, technology, they lobby the government, they have Jewish interest groups negotiating on the governments behalf, they make Americans cough up billions for Israel interests etc etc.

[QUOTE=Starpluck;43398387]The notion of "Israel being surrounded by nations who want to destroy it" is an outdated and tireless fearmongering phrase that belongs in the 20th century. No nation poses a threat to victim-Israel. Jordan is Israel's ally and so was Egypt under Western-backed dictator Mubarak and yet the contrived myth was still perpetuated as if it has some explanation to with Israel maintaining their religious goal in acquiring "Judea and Samira" aka West Bank occupation which was outlined before Israel was even a state. The contrived phrase is meaningless for what Israel does to Palestinians in 2014.[/QUOTE] What about countries such as Lebanon or Syria? I thought they hated Israel. [editline]3rd January 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Vasili;43404971]America is Israel's bitch, they sell American national secrets, technology, they lobby the government, they have Jewish interest groups negotiating on the governments behalf, they make Americans cough up billions for Israel interests etc etc.[/QUOTE] Imagine if America was actually pro-Israel. Israel would have conquered everything from Fez to Islamabad by now.

[QUOTE=Starpluck;43398058][URL]http://news.yahoo.com/kerry-arrives-israel-revive-flailing-peace-talks-131830069.html[/URL] If it was so bad, why release the "murderers" in the first place if they were so condemnable? Israel already knew they were going to get a loud welcome in Palestine regardless as it has always been the case with prisoner releases. But by releasing prisoners as opposed to stopping settlements and the occupation in the West Bank, Israel will look like they have done something (this is the max compromise they'll do) and also simultaneously put forth excuses as to why they can no longer negotiate so they can persist their illegal occupation. They're looking for a pretext to justify their goal to not concede a single settlement and continue absorbing Palestine (as outline in their Likud charter), and shitty pre-planned excuses like this are one of them.[/QUOTE] Why did you quote murderers?, are you suggesting that they didn't actually murder anyone? These people killed or attempted to kill Israeli citizens, think about what the families of the people that they murdered , being released like that for "peace" think, this happened to much and it continues to happen and there's still no sign "peace" from the opposing side. I agree with you that the settlements are wrong and need to be stopped, but it's not that they're only willing to negotiate with releasing prisoners, it's that the opposing side doesn't give a shit about the settlements, nor does it give a shit about "peace", all they want is for more prisoners to be released. Honestly, you lack the empathy to properly understand the Israeli side. you're like the ultimate Israel renegade, do you get a kick out of this? Also, Israel is still surrounded by enemies, including Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Libya, Egypt, Algeria, Yemen, Morocco, Mauritania, Tunisia, Oman, Sudan, Somalia, Djibouti, Qatar, Kuwait, and Bahrain. You obviously have something against Israel which is not only characterized by it's political actions. It's something personal. Even after all this, the settlements still look ridiculous. [IMG]http://ddclaywriter.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/israel-islam-world-map-crop1.gif[/IMG]

Abbas is congratulating them and giving them a heroes welcome that's why.

Israel isn't really an ally, they just want our shit. It's getting pathetic how childish both sides have become over an issue that is jeopardizing the welfare of millions of people.

[QUOTE=Shreddinger;43406304]Why did you quote murderers?, are you suggesting that they didn't actually murder anyone? These people killed or attempted to kill Israeli citizens, think about what the families of the people that they murdered , being released like that for "peace" think, this happened to much and it continues to happen and there's still no sign "peace" from the opposing side. I agree with you that the settlements are wrong and need to be stopped, but it's not that they're only willing to negotiate with releasing prisoners, it's that the opposing side doesn't give a shit about the settlements, nor does it give a shit about "peace", all they want is for more prisoners to be released. Honestly, you lack the empathy to properly understand the Israeli side. you're like the ultimate Israel renegade, do you get a kick out of this? Also, Israel is still surrounded by enemies, including Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Libya, Egypt, Algeria, Yemen, Morocco, Mauritania, Tunisia, Oman, Sudan, Somalia, Djibouti, Qatar, Kuwait, and Bahrain. You obviously have something against Israel which is not only characterized by it's political actions. It's something personal. Even after all this, the settlements still look ridiculous. [IMG]http://ddclaywriter.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/israel-islam-world-map-crop1.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE] Wow, that graph is wrong and is missing Israel occupied territories. In addition, wow you are wrong. Muslim = enemy type ideology right there. Iraq they have barely any relations with, Iran vs Israel is an Israeli propagated myth. It would be like saying that Ukraine is a threat to Switzerlands independence (Notice that they're an equal distance away from Iran to Israel). Jordan is friendly to Israel, Syria is a grey area because Israel is illegally occupying a vast section of southern Syria and there's an UN monitored DMZ set up. Israel constantly bombs the shit out of Lebanon for no real reason. Turkey has to deal with all of the consequences directly, since guess who has to take in refugees for the first stop? Heres a guess, you can't cross the Sinai peninsula and you can't cross the Arabian desert. Saudi Arabia is another weird area since they cooperate, and Egypt is kind of unsure but they were allies before hand because of really aggressive USA diplomacy. Israel hasn't been surrounded by enemies since 1967, and you want to take a guess why it was surrounded by enemies? For the majority of their wars, they were offensive. They started their wars with unjustified and unannounced first strikes. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War[/url] The 1967 war. War that was started because Israeli struck and attacked all of its surrounding neighbors. This piece of Israel diplomacy made me chuckle. [url]http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/171926#.UsdEe_RDv0c[/url] Basically, Netenyahu proposed and showed a plan to Mubarak that they could dispel Palestinians from Israel and force them to move onto reservations in the Sinai peninsula. Mubarak told Netenyahu to fuck off. [b]This happened in 2011. They wanted to perform a trail of tears in fucking 2011.[/b] [b]The Israel government wanted to make Native Territory and Reservations for the fucking Palestinians. The year was 2011.[/b] It's as if I've traveled back to 1868 and am reliving manifest destiny. You want to know something funny? They have multiple fucking Warsaw ghetto level containment area for the fucking Palestinians. The Jews arent the ones being threatened unless they're the ones illegally settling along Palestine land. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Gaza_Strip_barrier[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt%E2%80%93Gaza_barrier[/url] Oh hey, lets look at the Internation Court of Justice's ruling on this. [quote]The [b]ICJ opinions were as follows:[/b] [b]The construction of the wall being built by Israel, the occupying Power, in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including in and around East Jerusalem, and its associated regime, are contrary to international law;[/b] Israel is under an obligation to terminate its breaches of international law; it is under an obligation to cease forthwith the works of construction of the wall being built in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including in and around East Jerusalem, to dismantle forthwith the structure therein situated, and to repeal or render ineffective forthwith all legislative and regulatory acts relating thereto, in accordance with paragraph 151 of this Opinion; [b]Israel is under an obligation to make reparation for all damage caused by the construction of the wall in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including in and around East Jerusalem;[/b] All States are under an obligation not to recognize the illegal situation resulting from the construction of the wall and not to render aid or assistance in maintaining the situation created by such construction; all States parties to the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War of 12 August 1949 have in addition the obligation, while respecting the United Nations Charter and international law, to ensure compliance by Israel with international humanitarian law as embodied in that Convention; The United Nations, and especially the General Assembly and the Security Council, should consider what further action is required to bring to an end the illegal situation resulting from the construction of the wall and the associated regime, taking due account of the present Advisory Opinion. [b]The opinion were passed 14-1 by the court judges, except for the 4th decision which was passed 13-2.[/b][/quote] You probably don't know my story or my families story, you're not expected to. But I for one fully understand the plight of the Jews. My grandfather on my moms side, Polish Jew who survived the holocaust and was in and around the camps for most of his teenage life, barely survived and out of a large extended family, only him and his Uncle were left alive by the end of the war if I'm recalling correctly. My other side of the family, my dads side. Japanese-Hawaiians living in California. I have two sides of my family who were victims of unjust treatment, detainment, and on one side, holocaust. That however, does not give you the write to subjugate and promote ill treatment because of your fucking ideology. Victimization does not entitle you to become the bully. Life is not life fucking deathwish. Want to know my families story? Scroll down. The facts are that the modern state of Israel was founded by mercenary groups and terrorist paramilitary organizations and an actual Israel state didn't exist until after the 1948 war. The 1948 war was started by these Mercenary and Paramilitary groups occupying and doing almost similarly to Nazi, village sweeps, ethnic cleansing, and causing a fucking exodus that displaced [b]700,000[/b] fucking people. Here were the fighters of the 1948 war, (note the lack of Israel since the state didn't exist till after the land was taken from the UN, Oops.) [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haganah[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmach[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)[/url] Lehi and Irgun were both particularly confusing to me since they somehow supported the Nazi's in World war 2. Seeing the Nazi's as the proper way for them to gain control of Jerusalem and the surrounding lands. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus_from_Lydda_and_Ramle[/url] [b]Also known as the Lydda death march[/b] Let's take a step back. And just imagine the view of this for hundreds of miles. [b]Thumbnailed with extreme prejudice. The wall route in all of it's fine, fine super high resolution glory. Recommend opening a new tab. [/b] [t]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Barrier_route_July_2011.png[/t] [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/Israel-Palestinian_Wall_Ich_Bin_Eine_Berliner.jpg[/img] It's a bit funny to me, since this is way more hardcore than the Berlin wall ever was. It crosses around too, so some parts and districts are completely under siege. [t]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/Jerusalem-barrier_June_2007-OCHAoPt.jpeg[/t] [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/AbuDisWall.jpg[/img] [t]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/West_Bank_Barrier_Palestine_side.JPG[/t] Love the graffiti. I just love the image below for some reason. [t]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/Palestinian_children_and_Israeli_wall.jpg[/t] [b]Modern day apartheid at its finest.[/b] Because of the [i] "Law of Return"[/i], I could go and gain Israeli citizenship, along with most of my family, right fucking now; if I wanted to. However, my grandfather, being a Polish Jew, a victim of the Nazis and a first hand witness, along with victim of the camp system, chose to go west rather than east after the war. He moved to America and lived a decent life. Raised a family with his German wife, had three kids. Was conscripted into the military and served in intelligence because of his language skills in Polish, German and English. As a result of the two sides of my family, I'm pretty diverse and mixed racially. I don't identify myself racially as Jewish, both for my lack of belief in the Jewish race because of the wide amount of Jewish Diaspora, and how there are essentially ten different Jewish ethnic groups if you count that. Along with that, Religiously, Judaism is passed maternally, and my grandmother was Catholic. Ethnically; I'm German, Polish, Lithuanian, Japanese, and Hawaiian.

[QUOTE=Shreddinger;43406304][IMG]http://ddclaywriter.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/israel-islam-world-map-crop1.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE] Even if this map made sense in the context you are trying to portray it in, literally only 1 or 2 of those nations have the logistical capabilities of even attacking Israel and even less have the military power to effectively harm them. Not only that but many of the countries on that map are a little preoccupied with either major civil unrest or literal civil wars and have been for a long time now. And that is without US intervention. Also systematic Palestinian removal and confinement != defending borders

Also it's hilariously outdated.

[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;43408078]Also it's hilariously outdated.[/QUOTE] To be fair Israel has a right to fear the Sri Lankan Indonesian Kazakhstani Moroccan Western Chinese coalition. They're serious business

Also, Yemen doesn't exist. It's all Saudi.

[QUOTE=Shreddinger;43406304] [IMG]http://ddclaywriter.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/israel-islam-world-map-crop1.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE] Did Saudi Arabia just annex Yemen? :v:

Bangladesh is still East Pakistan?

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;43405247]What about countries such as Lebanon or Syria? I thought they hated Israel.[/QUOTE] Lebanon can't do shit and Syria is effectively disabled from doing shit. Ever played this game, Conflict: Middle East Political Simulator? Try it one day.

And Saudi Arabia also annexed Kuwait and Qatar. Oman annexed the UAE. Laos is split in two. Someone got lazy and forgot to finish the rest of Mongolia. The IRA ether won or failed. Muslims invaded the southwest west coast of Africa including most of southern Nigeria. The Maldives is one giant island. Sri Lanks somehow became muslim. So many errors in that map.

According to what information I could find Ethiopia has a slight Christian majority so unless that tiny little area is really heavily populated I think there's too much green. Also at least three african countries are named wrong and South Sudan and The Gambia disappeared Also the muslim majorities in Albania and Bosnia disappeared completely, so I guess Serbia's been really busy.

[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;43407225]Wow, that graph is wrong and is missing Israel occupied territories. In addition, wow you are wrong. Muslim = enemy type ideology right there. Iraq they have barely any relations with, Iran vs Israel is an Israeli propagated myth. It would be like saying that Ukraine is a threat to Switzerlands independence (Notice that they're an equal distance away from Iran to Israel). Jordan is friendly to Israel, Syria is a grey area because Israel is illegally occupying a vast section of southern Syria and there's an UN monitored DMZ set up. Israel constantly bombs the shit out of Lebanon for no real reason. Turkey has to deal with all of the consequences directly, since guess who has to take in refugees for the first stop? Heres a guess, you can't cross the Sinai peninsula and you can't cross the Arabian desert. Saudi Arabia is another weird area since they cooperate, and Egypt is kind of unsure but they were allies before hand because of really aggressive USA diplomacy. Israel hasn't been surrounded by enemies since 1967, and you want to take a guess why it was surrounded by enemies? For the majority of their wars, they were offensive. They started their wars with unjustified and unannounced first strikes. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War[/url] The 1967 war. War that was started because Israeli struck and attacked all of its surrounding neighbors. This piece of Israel diplomacy made me chuckle. [url]http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/171926#.UsdEe_RDv0c[/url] Basically, Netenyahu proposed and showed a plan to Mubarak that they could dispel Palestinians from Israel and force them to move onto reservations in the Sinai peninsula. Mubarak told Netenyahu to fuck off. [b]This happened in 2011. They wanted to perform a trail of tears in fucking 2011.[/b] [b]The Israel government wanted to make Native Territory and Reservations for the fucking Palestinians. The year was 2011.[/b] It's as if I've traveled back to 1868 and am reliving manifest destiny. You want to know something funny? They have multiple fucking Warsaw ghetto level containment area for the fucking Palestinians. The Jews arent the ones being threatened unless they're the ones illegally settling along Palestine land. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Gaza_Strip_barrier[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt%E2%80%93Gaza_barrier[/url] Oh hey, lets look at the Internation Court of Justice's ruling on this. You probably don't know my story or my families story, you're not expected to. But I for one fully understand the plight of the Jews. My grandfather on my moms side, Polish Jew who survived the holocaust and was in and around the camps for most of his teenage life, barely survived and out of a large extended family, only him and his Uncle were left alive by the end of the war if I'm recalling correctly. My other side of the family, my dads side. Japanese-Hawaiians living in California. I have two sides of my family who were victims of unjust treatment, detainment, and on one side, holocaust. That however, does not give you the write to subjugate and promote ill treatment because of your fucking ideology. Victimization does not entitle you to become the bully. Life is not life fucking deathwish. Want to know my families story? Scroll down. The facts are that the modern state of Israel was founded by mercenary groups and terrorist paramilitary organizations and an actual Israel state didn't exist until after the 1948 war. The 1948 war was started by these Mercenary and Paramilitary groups occupying and doing almost similarly to Nazi, village sweeps, ethnic cleansing, and causing a fucking exodus that displaced [b]700,000[/b] fucking people. Here were the fighters of the 1948 war, (note the lack of Israel since the state didn't exist till after the land was taken from the UN, Oops.) [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haganah[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmach[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)[/url] Lehi and Irgun were both particularly confusing to me since they somehow supported the Nazi's in World war 2. Seeing the Nazi's as the proper way for them to gain control of Jerusalem and the surrounding lands. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus_from_Lydda_and_Ramle[/url] [b]Also known as the Lydda death march[/b] Let's take a step back. And just imagine the view of this for hundreds of miles. [b]Thumbnailed with extreme prejudice. The wall route in all of it's fine, fine super high resolution glory. Recommend opening a new tab. [/b] [t]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Barrier_route_July_2011.png[/t] [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/Israel-Palestinian_Wall_Ich_Bin_Eine_Berliner.jpg[/img] It's a bit funny to me, since this is way more hardcore than the Berlin wall ever was. It crosses around too, so some parts and districts are completely under siege. [t]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/Jerusalem-barrier_June_2007-OCHAoPt.jpeg[/t] [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/AbuDisWall.jpg[/img] [t]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/West_Bank_Barrier_Palestine_side.JPG[/t] Love the graffiti. I just love the image below for some reason. [t]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/Palestinian_children_and_Israeli_wall.jpg[/t] [b]Modern day apartheid at its finest.[/b] Because of the [i] "Law of Return"[/i], I could go and gain Israeli citizenship, along with most of my family, right fucking now; if I wanted to. However, my grandfather, being a Polish Jew, a victim of the Nazis and a first hand witness, along with victim of the camp system, chose to go west rather than east after the war. He moved to America and lived a decent life. Raised a family with his German wife, had three kids. Was conscripted into the military and served in intelligence because of his language skills in Polish, German and English. As a result of the two sides of my family, I'm pretty diverse and mixed racially. I don't identify myself racially as Jewish, both for my lack of belief in the Jewish race because of the wide amount of Jewish Diaspora, and how there are essentially ten different Jewish ethnic groups if you count that. Along with that, Religiously, Judaism is passed maternally, and my grandmother was Catholic. Ethnically; I'm German, Polish, Lithuanian, Japanese, and Hawaiian.[/QUOTE] gg you win

[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;43408245]Bangladesh is still East Pakistan?[/QUOTE] Why the fuck is Zaire even there?

[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;43407225]Iraq they have barely any relations with, Iran vs Israel is an Israeli propagated myth. It would be like saying that Ukraine is a threat to Switzerlands independence (Notice that they're an equal distance away from Iran to Israel). Jordan is friendly to Israel, Syria is a grey area because Israel is illegally occupying a vast section of southern Syria and there's an UN monitored DMZ set up. Israel constantly bombs the shit out of Lebanon for no real reason. Turkey has to deal with all of the consequences directly, since guess who has to take in refugees for the first stop? Heres a guess, you can't cross the Sinai peninsula and you can't cross the Arabian desert. Saudi Arabia is another weird area since they cooperate, and Egypt is kind of unsure but they were allies before hand because of really aggressive USA diplomacy.[/quote] Iraq is pretty much spiraling towards civil war and a breeding ground for anti US/Israeli ideology and terrorism. Lebanon is full of Hezbollah, which actively has more than 100000 rockets aimed into Israel. Jordan's government wasn't in great shape through the Arab spring. Syria is the midst of a civil war between two (or three depending on how you define it) factions that publicly declare Israel there enemy and advocate it's destruction. Iran funds a bit to many terrorist groups that orchestrate suicide bombings (more on that later) to be considered Israel friendly, and have publicly stated their not to friendly opinions on Israel's existence before. Turkey is one of the less worrying, but isn't to friendly themselves, and have been exerting greater influence over the sea there (remember certain boats that may or may not have been full of weapons). Frankly Egypt would scare me the most if I were Israel, if they slip out of the US's influence (which has been seeming more likely), then we really don't know who would come to power. The people seem to be split between secularism and sharia. As I mentioned with the poll in a previous post, 80 percent don't believe in Israel's statehood. [QUOTE=Paul McCartney;43407225]Israel hasn't been surrounded by enemies since 1967, and you want to take a guess why it was surrounded by enemies? For the majority of their wars, they were offensive. They started their wars with unjustified and unannounced first strikes. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War[/url] The 1967 war. War that was started because Israeli struck and attacked all of its surrounding neighbors.[/quote] Not really. Six days war had it's origins in terrorist attacks against Israel, the aggressor was more of Syria and Egypt than anybody else. The previous wars, though they did end in expansion of Israel, began in defense. Israel's actually founding is a different issue, but they defended themselves from multiple attacks after that. Rocket strikes and suicide bombing used to be far more common. The loose borders were as much the fault of western powers backing the creation of Israel then anything else. When you split a country in two and divide the people, there is going to be a conflict over it. [quote]This piece of Israel diplomacy made me chuckle. [url]http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/171926#.UsdEe_RDv0c[/url] Basically, Netenyahu proposed and showed a plan to Mubarak that they could dispel Palestinians from Israel and force them to move onto reservations in the Sinai peninsula. Mubarak told Netenyahu to fuck off. [b]This happened in 2011. They wanted to perform a trail of tears in fucking 2011.[/b] [b]The Israel government wanted to make Native Territory and Reservations for the fucking Palestinians. The year was 2011.[/b] It's as if I've traveled back to 1868 and am reliving manifest destiny. You want to know something funny? They have multiple fucking Warsaw ghetto level containment area for the fucking Palestinians. The Jews arent the ones being threatened unless they're the ones illegally settling along Palestine land. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Gaza_Strip_barrier[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt%E2%80%93Gaza_barrier[/url] Oh hey, lets look at the Internation Court of Justice's ruling on this.[/quote] I agree the whole removal idea is pretty messed up, and so is the settlement building going on now, but look at the rest here. You realize the border you bring up was built to prevent suicide bombings as much as anything else? [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphinarium_discotheque_suicide_bombing[/url] You should read about that. Explain these Warsaw ghetto level containment areas, all I see is a fence. The huge wall you are pointing to only runs though Jerusalem. As to the rest of your post about the formation of Israel, It is honestly pretty irrelevant to the current conflict. It may have been wrong, but if so explain to me what you would have all the people of Israel now do? leave? Relinquish all there right to the government? Without that defense it would be a massacre. Original aggressions aside, they have to defend themselves now.

Stop stealing land would be a good start. Of course anyone who expects them to do that is probably stupid enough to believe whatever Israel says. But yeah, I guess ethnic cleansing is sometimes defensible, to some people.

You guys are out of your minds if you think Turkey is friendlier than the other countries towards Israel. General public mostly hates Israel and believes that they are behind everything, only the government is being a two faced bitch accusing Israel of everything wrong happening in Turkey, while they want to have a close diplomatic relationship. Governments do not matter, what matters is the emotions the general public has against Israel

[QUOTE=a203xi;43411628]Stop stealing land would be a good start. Of course anyone who expects them to do that is probably stupid enough to believe whatever Israel says. But yeah, I guess ethnic cleansing is sometimes defensible, to some people.[/QUOTE] Do you see Ethnic cleansing being defended in this thread?