Rand Paul Working on Bill to Give Personhood to the Unborn - Polidicks

This is significant, if the Republicans gain control of the Senate and the House at the Midterm elections this could have a chance of passing. [URL]http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/09/22/how-rand-paul-is-tackling-abortion-without-reversing-roe-v-wade/#[/URL] [QUOTE]“Now the time to grovel before the Supreme Court is over,” Paul said in the four-page letter sent out by the National Pro-Life Alliance. “Working from what the Supreme Court ruled in Roe v. Wade, pro-life lawmakers can pass a ‘Life at Conception Act’ and end abortion using the Constitution instead of amending it.” The 1973 [URL="http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=410&invol=113"]Roe v. Wade[/URL] ruling states: “Texas urges that, apart from the Fourteenth Amendment, life begins at conception and is present throughout pregnancy, and that, therefore, the State has a compelling interest in protecting that life from and after conception. We need not resolve the difficult question of when life begins. When those trained in the respective disciplines of medicine, philosophy, and theology are unable to arrive at any consensus, the judiciary, at this point in the development of man’s knowledge, is not in a position to speculate as to the answer.” It continues, “If this suggestion of personhood is established, the appellant’s case, of course, collapses, for the fetus’ right to life would then be guaranteed specifically by the Amendment. The appellant conceded as much on reargument. On the other hand, the appellee conceded on reargument 52 that no case could be cited that holds that a fetus is a person within the meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment.” Personhood laws have been debated in state legislatures across the country. If passed, Paul’s bill would define the unborn as persons protected by the 14th Amendment at the federal level.[/QUOTE]

If the soul goes into the embryo at conception, then do I only have half a soul because I'm a twin? What about the cases where two embryos fuse and only one person is born? Does that person have 2 souls? The arithmetic of souls doesn't seem to add up.

I can't see Obama signing this and I don't see the GOP getting so much control over Congress to override it, even if they do gain control of both houses. [editline]25th September 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Explosions;46073200]If the soul goes into the embryo at conception, then do I only have half a soul because I'm a twin? [/QUOTE] They don't call them a "evil twin" for nothing :v:

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;46073201]I can't see Obama signing this and I don't see the GOP getting so much control over Congress to override it, even if they do gain control of both houses. [editline]25th September 2014[/editline] They don't call them a "evil twin" for nothing :v:[/QUOTE] It could help Rand when he tries to get the nomination. Depending on how far he pushes it he could earn himself a very loyal and very potent bloc of Republican voters.

It's bizarre that in every other sense, a person's life begins at birth, with this exception. For instance, if we decided that personhood began at conception, wouldn't a person's age technically be counted from that point, rather than birth? They would be fairly minor things, but if we're going to consider someone's personhood to begin as soon as their personal ovum begins to replicate, that raises questions which we would need to answer.

If a fetus absorbs its twin did the fetus eat the other's soul?

Sorry for the double post, but also: If a fetus died whilst inside a woman and was considered to be a person, wouldn't that woman technically be liable to manslaughter charges?

Also I don't see how any bill can override roe v wade Edit: U son of a bitch

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;46073210]This is both good and bad; we do need to actually; as a country, sit down and legally define when "life begins"; whether or not I agree with his actual definition is completely different; but this sort of thing is something that definately deserves attention.[/QUOTE] I think it's moot tbh. I think life begins at conception but it's just not morally wrong to end that life

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;46073424]I think it's moot tbh. I think life begins at conception but it's just not morally wrong to end that life[/QUOTE] Life begins in my balls too. Is masturbation genocide? Drawing dividing lines on life like this is asinine.

I think we need to get over this whole "sanctity of life" nonsense. We don't give a shit about life as a general concept or else we wouldn't have the death penalty, and wed all be vegans. Its just about Christians not wanting women to have control over their bodies and shaming women for premarital sex and all that

Man these Republicans will do anything to prohibit abortion

Ron Paul is a "libertarian" yet he pulls this shit? Oh thats right, the government shouldnt interfere with the things HE cares about.

"you have accused of the murder of a -9 month year old, how do you plead?"

This is going to be such a pain in the ass. Giving personhood to fetuses gives them more than just the right to life. They now have rights to everything else in our legal system. You could file a lawsuit on behalf of an unborn baby. You could argue that a mother could be neglecting a fetus and be charged criminally. You could claim a fetus as a dependent on your taxes. This hail mary attempt to sidestep real abortion debate has a whole hell of a lot attached to it and I feel like the shitlords in the GOP aren't going to think this through before squeezing it through their large intestine.

I think life begins when the organism stops resembling a wad of gum. With America's high obesity rate, less people are alive than ever

I thought conservatives and libertarians were all about keeping government out of our daily lives, or am I just terribly naive for assuming they had integrity?

I'm sure it's not all about controlling women, but it provides the perfect excuse.

So fetuses are people. So are fetuses citizens of the US? Are they provided the same rights and protections through the Constitution? Is an abortion a murder? Are fetuses citizens as of conception? If a foreign national conceives in the US, is the fetus a US citizen? If they have an abortion in the US, is it murder if the fetus isn't that of a US citizens'? If an American goes over to China and conceives there, is it a dual-citizenship fetus? Would an abortion overseas by a state government be the murder of an American citizen? What about dual citizenship folks who had an abortion in another nation? Do we start counting age at birth or at conception? Do we need to then change all laws to "vote at 18 years and 9 months" or "drive at 16 years and 9 months"? Is engaging in risky behavior, such as driving a vehicle, riding a bike, leaving the house, living in squalor, constitute neglect or manslaughter if anything happens?

[QUOTE=Explosions;46073444]Life begins in my balls too. Is masturbation genocide? [/QUOTE] imagining that it is only makes it more fun to me

I'm always amused at how people want life to begin at conception/fertilization. The failure rate for fertilized eggs is really fucking high. Low estimates put it around 60%, but other estimates put it around 80%. Detecting these early failures is damn near impossible. If these fertilized eggs have a soul, most souls go about completely unnoticed and most people 'live' for a couple hours or days. How fucked is that? Even after successful implantation, most don't even develop fully. For years and years it was culturally uncommon for people to even name their kids until after a couple years because they just died so often. This unborn shit is pretty dumb.

I would support this bill. People have plenty of options to prevent conception before they have sex. Why not promote these options and just be responsible? I just find abortion to be morally uneasy if not sickening.

[QUOTE=cqbcat;46074646]I would support this bill. People have plenty of options to prevent conception before they have sex. Why not promote these options and just be responsible? I just find abortion to be morally uneasy if not sickening.[/QUOTE] When you give a fetus the right to life it will by analogy end up having all the other rights permitted in the legal system. We'll be running ragged six ways to Sunday just getting the legality of it all sorted out.

[quote]Its just about Christians not wanting women to have control over their bodies and shaming women for premarital sex and all that[/quote] I'm so fucking sick of hearing this bullshit. Do you honestly believe this? Do you REALLY believe that "They don't want Women to have abortions because they hate women"? Not even as an "they aren't ALL like that", do you believe even the majority or a sizable minority think that way? It's an emotional reaction to the death of something that they consider a baby. It's religious beliefs passed on by the community and culture and by people that people with the beliefs respect. Even as someone who is pro-choice, it makes me absolutely sick that a post like this would get so many agrees. It's like a conservative saying people who are pro-choice hate babies, or people who are for the separation of church and state hate Christians, or hate God. Things are not going to get any better in this country if we continue to separate ourselves from reality by pretending that people we disagree with are solely motivated by evil.

[QUOTE=Helix Snake;46074772]words[/QUOTE] Carlin said it best. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvF1Q3UidWM[/media]

Rand Paul wants government so small it can fit in your uterus.

[QUOTE=Explosions;46073200]If the soul goes into the embryo at conception, then do I only have half a soul because I'm a twin? What about the cases where two embryos fuse and only one person is born? Does that person have 2 souls? The arithmetic of souls doesn't seem to add up.[/QUOTE] This reminds me of an argument made by Sam Harris..

[QUOTE=Bradyns;46076931]This reminds me of an argument made by Sam Harris..[/QUOTE] It is.

[QUOTE=cqbcat;46074646]I would support this bill. People have plenty of options to prevent conception before they have sex. Why not promote these options and just be responsible? I just find abortion to be morally uneasy if not sickening.[/QUOTE] What if it was for medical reasons? I.e. not having an abortion would be extremely detrimental, if not fatal, to the health of the mother?

[QUOTE=proboardslol;46073474]I think we need to get over this whole "sanctity of life" nonsense. We don't give a shit about life as a general concept or else we wouldn't have the death penalty, and wed all be vegans. Its just about Christians not wanting women to have control over their bodies and shaming women for premarital sex and all that[/QUOTE] Totally stupid statement. Most people opposed to abortion do so because they think it is taking a life, not because of some drummed up idea that they wont to control people for the sake of doing so. Its disappointing to see how many agrees dumbass statements get on threads like these just because it is supporting the pro choice side of the argument.