[video=youtube;OejarinH0xo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OejarinH0xo[/video]
Oh boy, what a twist ending. Western release has been confirmed, by the way.
Sony exclusive? That's a shame.
It's not really much of a twist, all the promotional material centres around a picture of Rin lifting their dress with the crotch just out of frame/shadowed out. They're making it abundantly clear that "Hey, we added a trap/trans* waifu to the game this time!". Pretty disappointing honestly, Catherine had some interesting themes about relationships and now it feels like they're throwing that out the window to appeal to people that like waifus.
*It's not clear yet whether Rin's just a crossdresser or an actual trans person
Rin being trans is the biggest nightmare this game could have showed. LGBT stuff already wasn't Atlus's forte when it was background stuff, it being a main plot point will probably be terrible. A shame, was excited for the multiplayer stuff at least.
I like the idea that it's being remade with new characters and elements rather than a straight next-gen port. Personally I think Rin is female and that Vincent is just scared that he has another woman fighting for his affections. The transactions between the nightmares and waking up almost feels like a hangover so of coarse he's going to act nervous because he hardly remembers the night before.
Still next winter is a VERY long wait.
[QUOTE=maddogsamurai;52997802]I like the idea that it's being remade with new characters and elements rather than a straight next-gen port. Personally I think Rin is female and that Vincent is just scared that he has another woman fighting for his affections. The transactions between the nightmares and waking up almost feels like a hangover so of coarse he's going to act nervous because he hardly remembers the night before.
Still next winter is a VERY long wait.[/QUOTE]
You have a point about Vincent, but it's not just his reactions pointing towards Rin not being cisfemale. Look at the main image Atlus is using to promote the game:
[b]NSFW[/b]
[url]http://fullbody.jp/resources/img/top/kv_rin_5962011390851c7f0ae087ed70b70ed3.png[/url]
That imagery is a big staple of crossdressing media in Japan
Catherine is one of my favorite games of all time, so I'm inclined to say it could be even better with a third girl (especially the new puzzle mechanic). Atlus makes some crazy stories.
Personally as far as waifus go I feel like [sp]succubus Catherine[/sp] is basically that entire concept personified
[QUOTE=BipedalSlug;52997799]Rin being trans is the biggest nightmare this game could have showed. LGBT stuff already wasn't Atlus's forte when it was background stuff, it being a main plot point will probably be terrible. A shame, was excited for the multiplayer stuff at least.[/QUOTE]
They already didn't handle it well with[sp]the Erica situation,[/sp]I'm just being optimistic and hoping this can't be worse than that.
I guess Rin is meant to be the co-op character, but if so why couldn't they just use the dentist, Erica, or any one of the other existing characters suffering nightmares?
I love Catherine, but never got to play it, and now owning a PS4, I'm happy for this new version. Iffy on how I feel about what they're doing with Rin, but only time will tell I suppose.
Oh boy. The original's flirtation with . . . LGBT themes . . . was pretty insensitive already, but at least it was a minor line that only shows up in one of the many endings. I want to believe they'll do a respectful job with this new Catherine, but after seeing the representation in Persona 5, I don't have high hopes.
It sucks, Catherine is an easy contender for the best game of the last generation, and certainly the most unique. I was incredibly stoked when I heard the announcement a few days ago, but now I don't even feel comfortable sharing this with my friends.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;52997967]They already didn't handle it well with[sp]the Erica situation,[/sp]I'm just being optimistic and hoping this can't be worse than that.[/QUOTE]
[Sp]My only gripe was that what Erica was not identified specifically. I don't think the character herself was offending the lgbt community, but I think she could have been given more dialogue or even the third option. Then again I've been proven wrong before.[/sp]
Hey maybe they didn't handle LGBT themes well in the previous version because Japan is an entirely different culture and sees LGBT things entirely different.
Either way I'm excited for it because I loved the first and found no flaws
[QUOTE=SpartanXC9;52998196]Hey maybe they didn't handle LGBT themes well in the previous version because Japan is an entirely different culture and sees LGBT things entirely different.[/QUOTE]
Okay, glossing over the fact that nothing about that really justifies this, Catherine is a game set in North America and is significant for being one of the most comprehensive English-language localisations in gaming. It's not exactly appropriate to apply that mindset to a setting where these issues receive far more public consideration.
-snip remembered the wrong ending-
How was it even bad? And no, that's not glossing over anything because it's still a Japanese game. What was wrong with Persona 5? Wait are you one of those people who thinks Kanji is gay and Naoto is trans?
Like what? Is it being set America suddenly make the development team have an American view set???
[QUOTE=SpartanXC9;52998204]-snip remembered the wrong ending-
How was it even bad? And no, that's not glossing over anything because it's still a Japanese game. What was wrong with Persona 5? Wait are you one of those people who thinks Kanji is gay and Naoto is trans?[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't know, I never played more than a few hours of P4, but maybe I also think the only gay characters in a game set in the world's most populous city shouldn't be exclusively depicted as lecherous cross-dressing men that want to fuck underage boys.
Lmao what? They weren't cross dressing at all just wearing very bright clothes. So you're saying we can't have joke characters? There's nothing funny about the most macho dude in the group only attracting perverted old people? You have to keep in mind Japan sees homosexuality as a fetish and not as a sexuality (if I remember correctly). Also Ryuji isn't underage he's the same age as the MC who can date his teacher who is older then him.
You're description of the gay older guys makes me think you didn't even play the game. I'm not even sure what's wrong with them since they're just weird people from the red light district. This isn't even the first time there's been homosexuals in Persona.
[Img]https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/megamitensei/images/d/da/Jun_Kurosu_ISP.png/revision/latest?cb=20131125095551[/img]
"Are popular Japanese perceptions of homosexuals damaging to said community?" isn't really a hill I want to die on, especially when it is in relation to a minor (albeit deliberately placed) gag in a video game. All I'm saying is that Catherine is a far more mature title than any Persona game, or most other titles in the medium for that matter. Whether it's for fanservice or played as a joke, I don't think Catherine is going to benefit in any meaningful way from Rin's addition.
[QUOTE=Tunak Mk. II;52998256]"Are popular Japanese perceptions of homosexuals damaging to said community?" isn't really a hill I want to die on, especially when it is in relation to a minor (albeit deliberately placed) gag in a video game. All I'm saying is that Catherine is a far more mature title than any Persona game, or most other titles in the medium for that matter. Whether it's for fanservice or played as a joke, I don't think Catherine is going to benefit in any meaningful way from Rin's addition.[/QUOTE]
Hey you started it and you can't back out but just saying "nevermind". Sure Catherine is mature compare to Persona 4 but P5 deals with a teacher sexually harassing students, potentially almost raping one and other things such as making young adults homeless by stealing their life's work and highschool students being drugged and tortured. Oh hey let's not get into Persona 2 where you have your friends parents burned alive in front of both you and him, and how everything awful is happening because of 1 mistake.
I can tell you haven't played these games and are just here for the controversy
[QUOTE=Tunak Mk. II;52998256]"Are popular Japanese perceptions of homosexuals damaging to said community?" isn't really a hill I want to die on, especially when it is in relation to a minor (albeit deliberately placed) gag in a video game. All I'm saying is that Catherine is a far more mature title than any Persona game, or most other titles in the medium for that matter. Whether it's for fanservice or played as a joke, I don't think Catherine is going to benefit in any meaningful way from Rin's addition.[/QUOTE]
Catherine was never particularly mature honestly, fun but hardly deep.
[QUOTE=NoNameForEvil;52997820]oh for fuck's sake, this is going to be a trainwreck
i guess they decided the first game didn't have enough godawful jokes at the expensive of trans people with [sp]erica[/sp].[/QUOTE]
what jokes
[QUOTE=Tetsmega;52998277]what jokes[/QUOTE]
If anything the guys have no idea how to break the news to their friend. If anything the jokes are more aimed at the guy who slept with the transgender girl (who didn't fully transition) because he still couldn't figure it out
Can't we all just get along and actually [U]play[/U] video games?
[QUOTE=Tunak Mk. II;52998256]"Are popular Japanese perceptions of homosexuals damaging to said community?" [/QUOTE]
I think not being able to take a joke is more damaging especially when Persona 4 has the exact same joke with 2 women
[QUOTE=Tetsmega;52998277]what jokes[/QUOTE]
[sp]the game uses her for a constant 'they're a trap' gag, with Vincent making slights at the fact she is trans as a sort of tsukommi. The game largely makes fun of the kid in the group for having a crush on her because she's trans. She's meant as a gag. The devs also inexplicably use Eric in the credits, manual etc as well as implying she has the nightmares that only men have. it's not 'Japan has different cultural views and you should respect them', it's just being pointlessly mean spirited. It's same as the constant jokes yosuke made about kanji being gay in p4[/sp]
I don't feel much since i'm not fan of Rin's look compared the rest so it's whatever for me.
[QUOTE=Tunak Mk. II;52998256]All I'm saying is that Catherine is a far more mature title than any Persona game, or most other titles in the medium for that matter.[/QUOTE]
The game where the main character runs around in his underwear for half the game and talks to sheep people is a pinnacle of maturity.
K.
[QUOTE=SpartanXC9;52998270]Hey you started it and you can't back out but just saying "nevermind". Sure Catherine is mature compare to Persona 4 but P5 deals with a teacher sexually harassing students, potentially almost raping one and other things such as making young adults homeless by stealing their life's work and highschool students being drugged and tortured. Oh hey let's not get into Persona 2 where you have your friends parents burned alive in front of both you and him, and how everything awful is happening because of 1 mistake.
I can tell you haven't played these games and are just here for the controversy[/QUOTE]
If the entirety of P5 was just Kamoshida, I'd agree with you, but the plots involving Madarame onwards are totally silly. It's entertaining, but not believable. The same goes for burning parents. I'm not sure what you define as "mature", but edgy anime melodrama doesn't quite equate with actual adult themes. The same goes for using an entire group of people as the butt of an unnecessary and mean-spirited joke. I don't know why you're getting so defensive over a minor aspect of the monument that is Persona 5. It's possible to enjoy something while admitting that it has it's flaws.
[QUOTE=SpartanXC9;52998270]I can tell you haven't played these games and are just here for the controversy[/QUOTE]
Nice bait. I spent 100+ hours playing through Persona 5, so I think I know what I'm talking about. I've played through Catherine more times than I care to admit on both consoles. I have no doubt that I'm a bigger fan of the game than you, but even so I can recognize that there are problematic elements within it. Making LGBT themes, played for laughs in the original game, a major element of the remake is concerning. Not only has this team proven itself incapable of addressing the subject in a respectful manner, there is no way that they will be able to smoothly incorporate them into such a contained, preexisting narrative. I'm [i]really[/i] sorry you confuse my criticism for controversy, but maybe you should consider how media like this can affect certain people before rushing in to declare it unimpeachable.
On the contrary I don't think the game makes fun of trans at all. The only people who know that [sp]Erica used to be male[/sp] were the group of friends minus Tobi and the conversations regarding Erica seem humorous because his friends [I]know[/I] but are trying to hide it from him as to not ruin it for Erica (who is also their grade-school friend too).
Only one of the endings tells you the backstory so the hints are to clue the player in without actually confirming it. I actually didn't realize it even after beating the game until I read the wiki and I know exactly what "jokes" you're talking about thinking back.
What if she's an angel (to take part of the devil/human/angel story) and she's completely devoid of sexual characteristics?
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