• Sesame Credit - The True Danger of Gamification [Extra Credits]
    28 replies, posted
One step closer to an Orwellian dystopia [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHcTKWiZ8sI[/media]
holy shit
These systems already exist in the West in the form of Twitter, Facebook and Reddit. Essentially, when you say the right things you get rewarded with points (upvotes, likes, retweets, etc.) and in doing so you're more likely to give away personal information that social media websites sell to advertisers in order to make money. Social Media websites are intentionally designed the way they are to encourage peer pressure. You're not the customer, you're the product that they sell to large corporations in the form of personal information and they ain't doing this stuff for free.
[QUOTE=Zyler;49333436]These systems already exist in the West in the form of Twitter, Facebook and Reddit. Essentially, when you say the right things you get rewarded with points (upvotes, likes, retweets, etc.) and in doing so you're more likely to give away personal information that social media websites sell to advertisers in order to make money. Social Media websites are intentionally designed the way they are to encourage peer pressure. You're not the customer, you're the product that they sell to large corporations in the form of personal information and they ain't doing this stuff for free.•[/QUOTE] no i'm sorry but you're dead wrong on this. Yes we have those things but they hardly foster unity. They foster discussion and dissent more often than "Unity". I'd say our system is directly opposed to theirs in terms of it's effects on our freedoms. I can say "Fuck you government" on my twitter. You know what'll happen to me? The majority of the people I know, and a lot of random internet users will also say "Yeah, Fuck you government". I really don't see the parallel you're trying to draw here.
I was going to call out Extra Credits since they were "GAMIFY EVERYTHING", but holy shit. That is actually intimidating. Here's another source about it because I couldn't believe it. [URL="http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-34592186"]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-34592186[/URL]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49333444]no i'm sorry but you're dead wrong on this. Yes we have those things but they hardly foster unity. They foster discussion and dissent more often than "Unity". I'd say our system is directly opposed to theirs in terms of it's effects on our freedoms. I can say "Fuck you government" on my twitter. You know what'll happen to me? The majority of the people I know, and a lot of random internet users will also say "Yeah, Fuck you government". I really don't see the parallel you're trying to draw here.[/QUOTE] It's not the intent but the means I'm talking about here. The purpose of western social media isn't to discourage dissent, it's to make you overly invested so that you'll reveal your personal information, which they sell on to corporate advertisers. For example, that's why many of the sites encourage you to complete a profile and encourage you to use your real name and form networks of relationships with both real people you know and others you don't know. They employ a complex inner working of in-group/out-group preferences and the connecting pathways between familial relationships, friendship groups, community circles and brand identity to make you want to be in the 'in-group' and get involved. They simultaneously want to sell you crap and they want to sell you as data to third-parties. The influence of the connection between individuals, groups, community and organizations is a well-documented strategy called Social Network Theory: [url]http://socialnetworking.lovetoknow.com/What_is_Social_Network_Theory[/url]
Hilarious how EC has been crusading for censorship, sanitization and "correction" of gaming themes for three years, and now some one has acted on their premise in what is the absolutely natural progression of EXACTLY what they wanted and now they're horrified. Congratulations asshats, this is the natural end result of your rhetorical push. Hope you enjoy it.
[QUOTE=27X;49333542]Hilarious how EC has been crusading for censorship, sanitization and "correction" of gaming themes for three years, and now some one has acted on their premise in what is the absolutely natural progression of EXACTLY what they wanted and now they're horrified. Congratulations asshats, this is the natural end result of your rhetorical push. Hope you enjoy it.[/QUOTE] Well their push for sanitation is ironically connected with their fears of gamification and the effect that they feel video games have on people (i.e. people are too stupid to not be brainwashed by games, which is why the games need to only push the correct messages).
-snerp-
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;49333562]Stop saying this whenever groups of people disagree with you on the internet[/QUOTE] So you think the Sesame Credit system is a positive, non-Orwellian solution to the Chinese people's lack of patriotism?
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;49333562]Stop saying this whenever groups of people disagree with you on the internet[/QUOTE] Dystopian style government control of information, this situation seems like an appropriate application of the term to me?
[QUOTE=Foobagooba;49333283]holy shit[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;49333562]Stop saying this whenever groups of people disagree with you on the internet[/QUOTE] What on earth are you talking about??
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;49333562]Stop saying this whenever groups of people disagree with you on the internet[/QUOTE] Of course, let's stop calling things that are inherently means of control of a person's mental, societal and physical living Orwellian, even though the term was made for such a use. The problem is is that a lot of the time surveillance systems are Orwellian, and sometimes those things are good, but in very minute numbers and situations, what China is doing, and the two government-linked corporations to it, is incredibly disgusting.
[QUOTE=Zyler;49333570]So you think the Sesame Credit system is a positive, non-Orwellian solution to the Chinese people's lack of patriotism?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Ardosos;49333586]Dystopian style government control of information, this situation seems like an appropriate application of the term to me?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=The Vman;49333603]What on earth are you talking about??[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Keyblockor1;49333605]Of course, let's stop calling things that are inherently means of control of a person's mental, societal and physical living Orwellian, even though the term was made for such a use. The problem is is that a lot of the time surveillance systems are Orwellian, and sometimes those things are good, but in very minute numbers and situations, what China is doing, and the two government-linked corporations to it, is incredibly disgusting.[/QUOTE] I see what you mean now, especially after thinking about what I said, which was stupid, I apologize. I'm just so used to seeing "orwellian" being thrown around when it never applies to anything proper. I'm sorry, I am really stupid in that regard
This seems sensationalist, is there any evidence that this is how the system works, and that that is how it's going to operate?
I will say "Eager to show their patriotism to the world" and their example was an 'I Voted' sticker was fucking stupid.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;49333643]I see what you mean now, especially after thinking about what I said, which was stupid, I apologize. I'm just so used to seeing "orwellian" being thrown around when it never applies to anything proper. I'm sorry, I am really stupid in that regard[/QUOTE] Dude, don't worry. I can completely understand your reasoning when you jumped the gun. There [B][I]is[/I][/B] a lot of people running around screaming off their head about small changes or implementations as Orwellian, and you've proven yourself a better man than most by apologizing.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;49333655]This seems sensationalist, is there any evidence that this is how the system works, and that that is how it's going to operate?[/QUOTE] I posted a link, and while [URL="http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-34592186"]it's real[/URL], EC does seem to sensationalize it. It's the only one I can find from a big source. The rest of the results are for something different.
[QUOTE=Durrsly;49333684]I posted a link, and while [URL="http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-34592186"]it's real[/URL], EC does seem to sensationalize it.[/QUOTE] Like, China doesn't have the same privacy laws as what the Western world has. It's really not unusual at all that they came up with this when they already collect terabytes of information on its citizens and their daily internet activities. Hell, they might as well just data mine that info and give it some use. It won't make China any more authoritarian than what it already is.
And an issue I have with Extra Credits was their "propaganda games" episode, which when mentioned in this show reminded me about it. It talks about how one guy tried to compare "America's Army" to a game made by Hezbollah. The thing is though, the US army does a helluva lot more than just fight, and not everyone in the army kills, and at the time of its release, troop deployments were going down. Also, the US army, last time I checked, is not a force of religious fundamentalism hell-bent on the destruction of a sovereign state. Controversial opinion of mine, sure, but I feel that the comparison was really weak.
Well, America's Army was actually legit, lol. It was a really solid free to play shooter with very concrete and satisfying squad combat gameplay, it's a shame they tried to update it and fucked it up completely. Sure, yeah, it was paid for by the US Army and they didn't miss an opportunity to remind you of that, but it was fairly apolitical, and its depiction of combat and training was a lot more honest than what any current game has, focusing less on gore and the cruelty of war, and more on how a war is really fought. Call of Duty, arguably, has a much clearer political agenda than what America's Army had.
I haven't touched AA in a while, but the last time I checked, the "OpFor" were a bunch of pseudo-Russians, weren't they? I know that in 2 they were generic Mid-East Insurgents but it didn't try to make a point in terms of "SEE THEM DAMN BROWNIES, SHOOT EM"
[QUOTE=Zyler;49333570]So you think the Sesame Credit system is a positive, non-Orwellian solution to the Chinese people's lack of patriotism?[/QUOTE] The way it self-regulates can be equated to people fearing being around thoughtcriminals in 1984 but I'd liken it way more to Brave New World, given the clear stratification of society (based on score) and the fact it's people regulating people through social interaction and positive reinforcement (free time, higher living standard, 'better' social circles) rather than fear of government retaliation Even then, Huxleyan and Orwellian aren't the only two terms you can use to describe this
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;49333782]I haven't touched AA in a while, but the last time I checked, the "OpFor" were a bunch of pseudo-Russians, weren't they? I know that in 2 they were generic Mid-East Insurgents but it didn't try to make a point in terms of "SEE THEM DAMN BROWNIES, SHOOT EM"[/QUOTE] There wasn't any representation, really. Your side was always US soldiers, and the enemy was always OPFOR regardless of which team you're on, so the weapons were the same for both teams, only that the other team appeared to be carrying the equivalent Warsaw Pact version of the same weapon. The OPFOR model per se didn't look of any particular nationality, they just had ski masks and used different camo and gear. Compared to Call of Duty having the enemy ALWAYS be whoever is not speaking English (North Korean, Russian or Jihadist, pick your flavor), and that Hezbollah game which is you just single handedly slaughtering IDF forces, it's relatively harmless, particularly because it made it very clear to you that you cannot do much damage on your own, so the point of view of your character is kind of unimportant.
can someone list the information they present so I can look into it myself and not give EC the clicks due to their subjectivity.
[QUOTE=27X;49333542]Hilarious how EC has been crusading for censorship, sanitization and "correction" of gaming themes for three years, and now some one has acted on their premise in what is the absolutely natural progression of EXACTLY what they wanted and now they're horrified. Congratulations asshats, this is the natural end result of your rhetorical push. Hope you enjoy it.[/QUOTE] this is a stretch like ur tryin out for the fantastic 4
[QUOTE=Durrsly;49333495]I was going to call out Extra Credits since they were "GAMIFY EVERYTHING", but holy shit. That is actually intimidating. Here's another source about it because I couldn't believe it. [URL="http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-34592186"]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-34592186[/URL][/QUOTE] According to that source, sesame credit has officially stated [QUOTE]Sesame Credit tracks "financial and consumption activities of our users, and materials published on social media platforms do not affect our users' personal Sesame Credit score," explained spokeswoman Miranda Shek.[/QUOTE] Dunno if they're telling the truth, but the company's official stance is that they aren't basing this off social media stuff. [QUOTE=Ithon;49333922]can someone list the information they present so I can look into it myself and not give EC the clicks due to their subjectivity.[/QUOTE] lmao everything is subjective. If they're misinformed or are coming to dumb conclusions then that's reason to dislike them, but disliking them because they have an opinion at all is absurd.
dystopian or not there is at least some truth to this. China is fucking weird yo.
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