Maduro says new deal to raise oil prices is "close" to completion - Polidicks

[url]http://www.euronews.com/2016/09/19/oil-rises-as-venezuela-s-maduro-says-production-freeze-deal-is-close[/url] [url]http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/business/oil-opec-deal-maduro-1.3768353[/url] Hope this helps the Venezuelans but i doubt it will come to fruition.

Tesla will get all giddy if the oil prices rise, because then those considering in buying one might finally make the plunge.

Speaking in political terms, if a country ever successfully manages to nationalize its natural resources, and manages to do it right without interference from any other countries, it puts itself in a very good position to generate revenue that can be used for infrastructure, social security, healthcare, education, whatever, without putting the load of the government's budget on taxpayers. Iran tried it back in the 1950s, and the US and UK toppled their democracy for it. I've got no idea what's been going on with Venezuela. Maduro seems a naturally shitty leader, but given historical precedent I'm not ruling out outside influences. It's a shame that the countries with the most power to change the world for the better are scared of nationalizing oil, gas, etc because "That's socialism, and socialism is bad!"

[QUOTE=archangel125;51075439]Speaking in political terms, if a country ever successfully manages to nationalize its natural resources, and manages to do it right without interference from any other countries, it puts itself in a very good position to generate revenue that can be used for infrastructure, social security, healthcare, education, whatever, without putting the load of the government's budget on taxpayers. Iran tried it back in the 1950s, and the US and UK toppled their democracy for it. I've got no idea what's been going on with Venezuela. Maduro seems a naturally shitty leader, but given historical precedent I'm not ruling out outside influences. It's a shame that the countries with the most power to change the world for the better are scared of nationalizing oil, gas, etc because "That's socialism, and socialism is bad!"[/QUOTE] *cough* norway *cough*

[QUOTE=Sableye;51075526]*cough* norway *cough*[/QUOTE] Wait, Norway's done it? There you go, that's probably a good part of why it's one of the best countries in the world to live.

[QUOTE=archangel125;51075439]Maduro seems a naturally shitty leader, but given historical precedent I'm not ruling out outside influences. It's a shame that the countries with the most power to change the world for the better are scared of nationalizing oil, gas, etc because "That's socialism, and socialism is bad!"[/QUOTE] pretty much everything happening in venezuela is the fault of those within the nation even outside influences couldn't cause things to fuck up this bad also venezuela nationalized their oil industry but they run it extraordinarily poorly, with extreme ineptitude

[QUOTE=archangel125;51075439]Speaking in political terms, if a country ever successfully manages to nationalize its natural resources, and manages to do it right without interference from any other countries, it puts itself in a very good position to generate revenue that can be used for infrastructure, social security, healthcare, education, whatever, without putting the load of the government's budget on taxpayers. Iran tried it back in the 1950s, and the US and UK toppled their democracy for it. I've got no idea what's been going on with Venezuela. Maduro seems a naturally shitty leader, but given historical precedent I'm not ruling out outside influences. It's a shame that the countries with the most power to change the world for the better are scared of nationalizing oil, gas, etc because "That's socialism, and socialism is bad!"[/QUOTE] The reason why it doesn't work is not because it doesn't make sense but because a state that relies strictly on its oil production to do anything like in Venezuela, where oil revenue is used for so much there aren't even toll booths on the roads, is that it breeds corruption. Venezuela was once the crown jewel of South America, a nation so rich it was the envy of the continent, look what 50 years of failing to diversify its economy did to it. It wasn't the CIA who told Chavez to spend 90% of the country's oil revenues into his so called social programs, and there is no "historical precedent" of outside intervention in Venezuela's affairs, oil production has been state owned in the country since the creation of PDVSA in the 70's. I hate that answer, it's so easy to blame everything on some larger power.

[QUOTE=Big Bang;51075596]The reason why it doesn't work is not because it doesn't make sense but because a state that relies strictly on its oil production to do anything like in Venezuela, where oil revenue is used for so much there aren't even toll booths on the roads, is that it breeds corruption. Venezuela was once the crown jewel of South America, a nation so rich it was the envy of the continent, look what 50 years of failing to diversify its economy did to it. It wasn't the CIA who told Chavez to spend 90% of the country's oil revenues into his so called social programs, and there is no "historical precedent" of outside intervention in Venezuela's affairs, oil production has been state owned in the country since the creation of PDVSA in the 70's.[/QUOTE] Sure, you've a point there. Oil revenue shouldn't be the government's *only* source of revenue. But it could at least make up a majority of it without causing issues, right? I don't know a lot about Venezuela's system of government, but I'm sure the corruption can be attributed to something more concrete than because oil was the chief industry. That's a part of it without a doubt, but maybe there weren't enough checks and balances in place?

[QUOTE=archangel125;51075614]Sure, you've a point there. Oil revenue shouldn't be the government's *only* source of revenue. But it could at least make up a majority of it without causing issues, right? I don't know a lot about Venezuela's system of government, but I'm sure the corruption can be attributed to something more concrete than because oil was the chief industry. That's a part of it without a doubt, but maybe there weren't enough checks and balances in place?[/QUOTE] No, it can't. Norway does it properly, the wealth from it's oil production is stashed, kept in what is basically a rainy day fund, if Norway were to completely stop their oil production tomorrow they would be perfectly fine for possibly half a century, that's just how much money they have in their oil funds, and that's the thing about oil, [I]it'll run out someday[/I], and you can't know when that day will come. If a majority of a country's income is from oil exportation, then the day the wells go dry their economy grinds to an absolute halt. Without strong institutions developing countries are simply unable to create a government, socialist or not, that is able to correctly use the hilarious amount of money oil exportation brings to a country, and even with them, it's impossible to create a government that will responsibly spend money that quite literally sprouts from the ground. The correct way to spend oil money is to not spend it. The perhaps clearest analogy comes from lottery winners. How many lottery winners do you know about that didn't turn into complete wrecks after getting the money, despite being good and honest people beforehand? How many of them are actually richer today than what they were before winning the lottery?

[QUOTE=archangel125;51075614]Sure, you've a point there. Oil revenue shouldn't be the government's *only* source of revenue. But it could at least make up a majority of it without causing issues, right? I don't know a lot about Venezuela's system of government, but I'm sure the corruption can be attributed to something more concrete than because oil was the chief industry. That's a part of it without a doubt, but maybe there weren't enough checks and balances in place?[/QUOTE] checks and balances are useless in every nation no matter the government. what you really need is a strong civil society. in every nation, whoever happens to constitute the government relies on many different sources of squeeze to draw up resources from. normally in developed nations this means taxing people, and you need to keep them happy if you want to raise such revenues in venezuela (and every arab oilstate), as long as you control the wells you don't need to give two fucks about anything. corruption is fine because as long as the corruption doesn't cut into your own takings it doesn't matter. in the socialist nations (like venezuela), maduro and the other mouthbreathers preceding him hit upon the strategy of using some of the oil wealth to buy the loyalty of the impoverished. the main reason this doesn't happen to places like norway is because they already have a functioning civil society beforehand (a dependence on oil mostly hurts economic diversity rather than the politics). of course, when the oil revenues begin to drop you see what amounts to a vast form of cannibalism as the economic base can no longer sustain the old levels of corruption. with so much of the economy dependent directly or indirectly on oil revenues and spending, any country would suffer. but venezuela was blessed with incompetent socialist ideologues of course, who spent the best part of a generation mismanaging the country. the result is that as soon as the income dried up, the entire venezuelan nation and its economy has effectively grown to a shuddering halt and is collapsing as people abandon the country (once in search of freedom, now for food), the police devolves into bandit gangs, the civil administration breaks down, and the money economy ceases to function as people trade diapers for chickens

[QUOTE=archangel125;51075439]Speaking in political terms, if a country ever successfully manages to nationalize its natural resources, and manages to do it right without interference from any other countries, it puts itself in a very good position to generate revenue that can be used for infrastructure, social security, healthcare, education, whatever, without putting the load of the government's budget on taxpayers. Iran tried it back in the 1950s, and the US and UK toppled their democracy for it. I've got no idea what's been going on with Venezuela. Maduro seems a naturally shitty leader, but given historical precedent I'm not ruling out outside influences. It's a shame that the countries with the most power to change the world for the better are scared of nationalizing oil, gas, etc because "That's socialism, and socialism is bad!"[/QUOTE] Not natural resources, but Temasek Holdings Private Limited, an investment company, is (I believe wholly) owned by the Government of Singapore. Their portfolio is ~180 billion USD. Thanks to the dividends from Temasek, Singapore has a ridiculously low income tax rate.

[QUOTE=archangel125;51075439]Speaking in political terms, if a country ever successfully manages to nationalize its natural resources, and manages to do it right without interference from any other countries, it puts itself in a very good position to generate revenue that can be used for infrastructure, social security, healthcare, education, whatever, without putting the load of the government's budget on taxpayers. Iran tried it back in the 1950s, and the US and UK toppled their democracy for it. I've got no idea what's been going on with Venezuela. Maduro seems a naturally shitty leader, but given historical precedent I'm not ruling out outside influences. It's a shame that the countries with the most power to change the world for the better are scared of nationalizing oil, gas, etc because "That's socialism, and socialism is bad!"[/QUOTE] Venezuala is a cartoonishly corrupt mess, literally the entire political culture is just corruption and nothing else. It's not just one shmuck on top, it's all of them

Can we fucking not, please? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say what most people are probably thinking but don't want to actually say. I don't give a shit what third world nation the low cost of oil destabilizes, I'm so happy gas has been hovering around $2 a gallon for like the last two years. I still can't believe it was $4 a gallon back in the winter of 2013. It feels like a bad dream. I know it's not a popular opinion but maybe instead of raising oil prices they should just diversify their fucking economy. Let us enjoy cheap gas until electric vehicles become affordable and available in every style.

[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;51077933]Can we fucking not, please? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say what most people are probably thinking but don't want to actually say. I don't give a shit what third world nation the low cost of oil destabilizes, I'm so happy gas has been hovering around $2 a gallon for like the last two years. I still can't believe it was $4 a gallon back in the winter of 2013. It feels like a bad dream. I know it's not a popular opinion but maybe instead of raising oil prices they should just diversify their fucking economy. Let us enjoy cheap gas until electric vehicles become affordable and available in every style.[/QUOTE] You're a fool if you think you can have both cheap oil and affordable electric vehicles.

[QUOTE=archangel125;51075439]Speaking in political terms, if a country ever successfully manages to nationalize its natural resources, and manages to do it right without interference from any other countries, it puts itself in a very good position to generate revenue that can be used for infrastructure, social security, healthcare, education, whatever, without putting the load of the government's budget on taxpayers. Iran tried it back in the 1950s, and the US and UK toppled their democracy for it. I've got no idea what's been going on with Venezuela. Maduro seems a naturally shitty leader, but given historical precedent I'm not ruling out outside influences. It's a shame that the countries with the most power to change the world for the better are scared of nationalizing oil, gas, etc because "That's socialism, and socialism is bad!"[/QUOTE] Britian effectively nationalised the empires oil production through majority ownership of what would become BP. Winston Churchill was one of the advocates for this calling the open market and open mockery. Ironic when free market enthusiasts in UKIP and the tories cite him as their biggest inspiration. Nationalised stuff shouldn't be some big taboo, especially if the population needs that service or the country relies on production/export of that good for its well being.

Hopefully it's not much of a concern for me - I fill up with roughly 60L worth of 98 RON every month; it will probably largely effect drivers and businesses that require long commutes to work or repeat transit. That said, our bowser prices skyrocket if there's inherent uncertainty in the global oil economy. They practically rip us off already with price gouging - just gives them a scapegoat.

[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;51077933]I know it's not a popular opinion but maybe instead of raising oil prices they should just diversify their fucking economy.[/QUOTE] How are they going to diversify their economy, if they've got no money whatsoever? Besides all the cash spent in party favors, corruption and [I]absolutely critical[/I] military equipment, but you get the idea. Diversifying an economy takes time and resources. Venezuela, right now, has neither.

Is there any chance that a collapse of Maduro's regime would result in a more competent state? If so, I'd oppose anything which raises QOL while his government is still in power. The angrier people get, the more disillusioned they'll get, catalyzing reform efforts. If this scenario isn't possible, I guess we just let it die slowly?

[QUOTE=Big Bang;51078446]You're a fool if you think you can have both cheap oil and affordable electric vehicles.[/QUOTE] The Tesla model 3 starts at $35,000 before all those rebates and tax write offs you get for having an electric vehicle. I would consider that a fairly affordable vehicle. [editline]20th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=T553412;51080473]How are they going to diversify their economy, if they've got no money whatsoever? Besides all the cash spent in party favors, corruption and [I]absolutely critical[/I] military equipment, but you get the idea. Diversifying an economy takes time and resources. Venezuela, right now, has neither.[/QUOTE] Maybe stop wasting money on party favors, corruption, and 'critical' military equipment (for all those wars Venezuela fights)