Rather than plaguing other threads, I felt that it be better to have a thread to discuss and debate the existence of a human soul/psyche/spirit; and if you believe it exists, provide a definition whether it be a metaphysical existence, a description of some unknown, unexplained physical phenomena or something spirital with a connection to a higher power or even being a higher power in and of itself.
My point of view; the soul does [b]not[/b] exist.
I do not believe that there is a part of us that exists in some other reality than the one we're familiar with. I do not believe that we are endowed with some sort of "life force" that makes us special from lifeless beings or lesser lifeforms with poorer cognitive abilities. I would not use the term "soul" to describe us or a special part of us as there are other words that are much more specific such as consciousness, personality or even "ourselves."
Our ability to think and feel can be explained with the physical world; even if we haven't been able to get all the details yet. The brain is incredible and capable of many tasks but there is no need for it to house some sort of spiritual entity. We know that physically tampering with the brain can lead to personality changes; whether that be via surgery or through pharmacological action. In one case study where the corpus callosum (the link between the two hemispheres) was cut to treat epilepsy, two personalities arose in the same body; two minds. Would that imply that another soul inhabited the body simply because we cut some nerve fibres?
No, the simplest explaination is that our physiology can explain our cognitive abilities and the simplest explaination is often the best. Much like how a PC is able to handle much more demanding software than handheld calculator due to more complicated circuitry and more transistors, a more developed cerebral cortex has more cognitive ability which we can see by comparing brain part proportions in animals. Do we really need to have a "soul" to explain the gap in cognitive ability between us and other animals? What happens when we encounter a being that is more capable of thinking and analysing with a greter range of emotions? Perhaps even our future selves after thousands or millions of years of evolution? Do we need to conceed that they have an entity that is even greater than our soul? My problem with the metaphysical soul to explain our mental abilities is that it really explains nothing at all. It only opens up more questions that can only be answered by other untestable, metaphysical answers.
I believe in soul, but only as a metaphor, other than that, it doesn't exist.
For example, "A man with a good soul", "He has no soul", etc
I agree with with the OP.
I would like to add on a bit about out of body experiences. I've noticed that there have been people claiming out of body experiences are proof that there is a soul. They see it as proof because they feel separated from their body, they feel as if they are able to move around, and see things that their body can't see.
I watched an atheist's experience episode addressing this. They had a caller that said he was sick as a kid. He had hallucinations because of his high fever and eventually he started having out of body experiences. He was able to put himself in a state of an out of body experience when he wanted to, so he decided to do some experiments. He would take a card at random and put it somewhere in the house without looking at it and then try to float to it using an out of body experience. He said that every one of his experiments failed horribly.
Oh, cool. The episode is on youtube
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDI6n9sWZzo[/media]
When someone is having an out of body experience, it's basically an hallucination involving the part of the brain that tells you your location.
Depends how you look at it. Physically or metaphorically.
Living life based on physical discovery only is boring. As you know... the mind itself is a bit of an unknown reality. Plenty in there to discover. :)
I don't believe in soul, most people look at it metaphorically as AK'z stated above. Living life based on physical discovery is not boring, how is it not exciting reading about new discoveries and technology? Studying the mind/brain is physical science as well, as scientists try to unlock parts that we don't use yet.
[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;32392775]new discoveries and technology?[/QUOTE]
on one hand it's "amazing" that things work and look pretty in the real world, then another thing which is understanding it.
The latter is what makes it boring for me, otherwise I'll just read and experience creativity rather than a formula.
I guess it depends on your definition of a soul.
Mine is... hard to explain. The fact that you are here, that you inhabit the body you do... God this is hard to explain. Uhm...
Your soul, your mind i guess, inhabits the body it does. But why? Why this specific body? And how is that happening? Kinda brings you to what exactly is "You?" I'm probably making no sense, it's still hazy in my mind. Anyone else KINDA get what I'm saying?
Your soul exists. Your soul is your mind, feelings, and thoughts.
My theology teacher and I had a discussion about the soul from a Christian perspective.
My idea was that soul and personality are separate and that someone's personality was the result of the soul interacting with the world.
[sp]Basically, their genes, but I didn't say that.[/sp]
I believe that the soul does exist, but not in a form we can readily observe. It's sort of like an analog to consciousness.
[QUOTE=Matthew0505;32437774]I don't believe in the soul. How can a group of billions of neurons have a single soul?[/QUOTE]
Aha, I didn't think of it this way. I don't believe in a soul, but that's a new angle.
I for one, believe in the soul.
[QUOTE=Laferio;32437878]I for one, believe in the soul.[/QUOTE]
But why? Are you using the idea of a soul to fill the void of not knowing how we work?
It's ok to not know things. It's worse to pretend to know things when we don't.
Yes it's a metaphor commonly use to describe person's ''karma'' or personality
[i]Another[/i] anti-religion thread. Facepunch is almost unanimously atheist, these threads just become circle jerks after a while.
But no, I do not believe a soul exists.
[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;32438509][i]Another[/i] anti-religion thread. Facepunch is almost unanimously atheist, these threads just become circle jerks after a while.
But no, I do not believe a soul exists.[/QUOTE]
The OP doesn't even mention souls in a religious context.
You don't have to be religious to believe in souls.
Personally, I don't believe they exist.
A soulless person would be a very bad person.
[QUOTE=OogalaBoogal;32403571]Your soul exists. Your soul is your mind, feelings, and thoughts.[/QUOTE]
So just like your brain, just not physical?
Anyway, I am an atheist. I don't believe in us being just a bug sitting behind our eye sockets, controlling our bodies. In my childhood I remember "selling" my soul or pieces of it just to get money to buy snacks. To be honest, I compare a body to a machine, where everything (except from our appendicitis) is made for a purpose, either to maintenance the main computer, our brain or just to transport it around and interact with the world around it.
I for one don't really know where I want to stay here.
Some part of me knows there is no soul, and all this is bullcrap.
But then, another part of me is utterly paranoid, and tells me it's true
[QUOTE=Confuzzed Otto;32440184]But then, another part of me is utterly paranoid, and tells me it's true[/QUOTE]Kill it with fire.
[QUOTE=Gekkosan;32439295]A soulless person would be a very bad person.[/QUOTE]
Seeing as we have no way to observe or measure a soul then whether someone possesses one or not is a bad measure of their morality.
I believe that we have a soul, but not in the traditional sense of the word.
A soul, the way I see it, is a result of consciousness, ergo, our soul (in the simplest sense) is made up of the collective informational and phenomenal experiences of a conscious organism. With the soul itself being nothing more than a non-tangible entity attached to something conscious; with that something be an animal, human, or a sufficiently advanced machine. As for the effects of termination of consciousness (death, if you would), and whether or not it would lead to an afterlife, I can't say.
I'm not sure on the subject.
I realise that we humans basically work as organic machines, but there must be something more. All of my thoughts, feelings and everything that I experience are physical in 'reality' but why and how am I in this body, living this life, experiencing what my body is experiencing.
Are we part of the world as any virtual thinking objects is part of a virtual world rather than being independent subjects?
If so, how can I be conscious? - If not, would artificially made robots be alive and conscious in the same way, though less 'comple', as me?
I think that a soul is just our brain being so technologically powerful that it can contemplate its own being, and as all humans are naturally egotistical think that it has something apart from a collection of atoms.
[editline]23rd September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;32447513]I'm not sure on the subject.
I realise that we humans basically work as organic machines, but there must be something more. All of my thoughts, feelings and everything that I experience are physical in 'reality' but why and how am I in this body, living this life, experiencing what my body is experiencing.
Are we part of the world as any virtual thinking objects is part of a virtual world rather than being independent subjects?
If so, how can I be conscious? - If not, would artificially made robots be alive and conscious in the same way, though less 'comple', as me?[/QUOTE]
I think, above a certain amount of intelligence, a robot can be sentient and conscious
I believe that soul exists, I felt mine.
To me the soul is nothing more than a faith based explanation for consciousness. There are still some things that are hard to explain though:
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;32447513]I'm not sure on the subject.
I realise that we humans basically work as organic machines, but there must be something more. All of my thoughts, feelings and everything that I experience are physical in 'reality' but why and how am I in this body, living this life, experiencing what my body is experiencing.
Are we part of the world as any virtual thinking objects is part of a virtual world rather than being independent subjects?
If so, how can I be conscious? - If not, would artificially made robots be alive and conscious in the same way, though less 'comple', as me?[/QUOTE]
Consciousness to me seems to be more about adaptation. Although it's sad, it may be that our way of life and our day-to-day basis has tricked our body into believing it to be the norm. It may even be a stage of evolution. However, that would then mean that breaking this norm would have negative effects upon the body. Hey presto, conciousness. Which then leads to the soul.
It's not something I'd like to believe and neither will I believe it. It's just something to think about that came off the top of my head.
[QUOTE=Eltro102;32447581]I think, above a certain amount of intelligence, a robot can be sentient and conscious[/QUOTE]
That's the mystery...if we built tiny mechanisms that simulated human cells at a very tiny scale, would it technically be a real person?
[QUOTE=Splarg!;32448399]That's the mystery...if we built tiny mechanisms that simulated human cells at a very tiny scale, would it technically be a real person?[/QUOTE]
Hmmm. Very interesting.
I don't think so, but that's only because I don't think it sounds right. Yet again, the norm.
I don't believe I exist, therefore I don't believe I have a "soul".
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