• Indiana Town Sued for Displaying Cross atop Christmas Tree
    76 replies, posted
[URL]http://www.cbsnews.com/news/aclu-suing-knightstown-indiana-cross-display-christmas-decorations/[/URL] [quote][B]KNIGHTSTOWN, Ind[/B]. -- The American Civil Liberties Union is suing a central Indiana town over the display of a cross as part of its Christmas decorations. [URL="http://indy.st/2hiNHNv"]The Indianapolis Star reported[/URL] that the ACLU’s Indiana chapter and Knightstown resident Joseph Tompkins argue that the Christian symbol on display in the Knightstown town square violates the First Amendment. The lawsuit is seeking for removal of the cross, monetary damages and declaration that the cross display violates the First Amendment. [URL="http://cbs4indy.com/2016/12/09/aclu-files-lawsuit-against-knightstown-over-christmas-tree/"]CBS affiliate WTTV reported[/URL] that the suit alleges that the Latin cross “is the preeminent symbol of Christianity, representing the instrument of the crucifixion of Jesus.” So if the display is religious, the suit argues, it has no business on town property. [/quote] I fully agree that this is a matter of the separation of church and state, but I also believe that the only reason this person is making a big deal out of it is because they want to. Personally I'm not a proponent of religion but seeing a cross doesn't cause me mental anguish. The whole thing seems a bit overblown and silly.
I think you should just allow any religious symbol to be on there, even something like satanism. You either ban everything or allow everything and I'd prefer for the option that gives people more freedom to express themselves.
But... its a [B]Christ[/B]... mas... tree as in... a [B]christ[/B]ian holiday WHAT the holiday is literally about the cross. Like, the entire point is that it's about Christ. :v:
People seriously need to chill the fuck out about what gets displayed during Christmastime. It's a predominately Christian holiday anyway, so crosses should be acceptable.
[QUOTE]declaration that the cross display violates the First Amendment. [/QUOTE] Suing over a Christian holiday displaying Christian symbols is a violation of the first amendment like, how can you even be this much of an asshat :goodjob:
[QUOTE=J!NX;51526916]But... its a [B]Christ[/B]... mas... tree as in... a [B]christ[/B]ian holiday WHAT the holiday is literally about the cross. Like, the entire point is that it's about Christ. :v:[/QUOTE] Christmas is not a Christian holiday.
[QUOTE=Paramud;51526925]Christmas is not a Christian holiday.[/QUOTE] But it kinda is, it's about celebrating Jesus, cause it's his Birthday.
[QUOTE=Paramud;51526925]Christmas is not a Christian holiday.[/QUOTE] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas[/url] [t]http://i.imgur.com/veXUJtY.png[/t] [url]http://www.history.com/topics/christmas[/url] [t]http://i.imgur.com/gny6hiK.png[/t] I don't care if Athiests and everyone else celebrate it too. It's celebrated in both non-religious and religious contexts, but ultimately a christian hollerdate.
[QUOTE=Paramud;51526925]Christmas is not a Christian holiday.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure the nativity scene I've seen set up in town wasn't there in September.
[QUOTE=Xonax;51526940]But it kinda is, it's about celebrating Jesus, cause it's his Birthday.[/QUOTE] I hope no one tries to argue semantics on this.
[QUOTE=J!NX;51526942][url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas[/url][/QUOTE] [quote=Wikipedia]Christmas Day is a public holiday in many of the world's nations, is celebrated culturally by a large number of [b]non-Christian[/b] people, and is an integral part of the holiday season, while [b]some Christian groups reject the celebration.[/b] ... The celebratory customs associated in various countries with Christmas have a mix of [b]pre-Christian[/b], Christian, and [b]secular themes and origins.[/b][/quote] [quote]I don't care if Athiests and everyone else celebrate it too. It's celebrated in both non-religious and religious contexts, but ultimately a christian hollerdate.[/quote] And I don't care that Christians used a pagan holiday as a tool to integrate the Nordic heathens into Christian society, the roots of the holiday are based in pagan religions, and today the holiday is, by a vast majority, non-Christian.
The "Christmas tree" is a pagan symbol that got shoehorned into the holiday some time ago. The Christmas that Americans observe is more of a commercial event than a religious holiday. Moreover, disestablishment means government institutions should not be allowed to align themselves with any one religion. By displaying a Christian symbol, they are effectively endorsing Christianity over other religions, which is a direct violation -and the entire point- of disestablishment. This lawsuit is completely justified, even if it might seem kind of knee-jerk.
[quote]The documents go on to say that every day, Tompkins “is forced to come into direct and unwelcome contact” with the cross on top of the tree as he drives through town. This, the suit says, has caused him “irreparable harm,” which can only be remedied by taking the cross down and paying Tompkins monetary damages.[/quote] this person is disgusting tbqh
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;51526962]this person is disgusting tbqh[/QUOTE] That's litigious lingo that essentially just says "he saw it and it upset him." It's worded that way for a reason and shouldn't be taken at face value.
[QUOTE=Paramud;51526953]And I don't care that Christians used a pagan holiday as a tool to integrate the Nordic heathens into Christian society, the roots of the holiday are based in pagan religions, and today the holiday is, by a vast majority, non-Christian.[/QUOTE] It doesn't matter if Christians and non-Christians celebrate it, it was originally a Christian holiday. And technically still is, just everyone celebrates it now. A lot of stuff Christian related has been integrated into our society.
Dude is a massive fucking baby.
[QUOTE=Paramud;51526965]That's litigious lingo that essentially just says "he saw it and it upset him." It's worded that way for a reason and shouldn't be taken at face value.[/QUOTE] you're right, he worded it that way to weasel himself some more cash out of the coffers of a small town. a lawsuit to get it taken down, i understand, but trying to get some cash on top out of the deal is gross to me.
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;51526974]you're right, he worded it that way to weasel himself some more cash out of the coffers of a small town. a lawsuit to get it taken down, i understand, but trying to get some cash on top out of the deal is gross to me.[/QUOTE] Pursuing a lawsuit isn't cheap. Besides legal fees, you have to actually take the time off of work to appear in court, which probably won't be paid.
How does displaying a symbol violate the first amendment? [quote]Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.[/quote] I fail to see the violation here.
[QUOTE=Paramud;51526925]Christmas is not a Christian holiday.[/QUOTE] Christ mas is not a Christian holiday Haha what the fuck
update [quote]Knightstown officials say a cross atop the town's Christmas tree will be removed because the Henry County community could not win a lawsuit from the ACLU.[/quote] [quote="Knightstown Town Council"]It is with regret and sadness that the Knightstown Town Council has had the cross removed from the Christmas tree on the town square and is expected to approve a resolution at the next council meeting stating they will not return the cross to the tree. We could not win the court case brought by the ACLU. We would have been required to pay the legal fees of the ACLU lawyer and monetary damage to the plaintiff, Mr. Joseph Tompkins, as set by the Court. This is our statement based on advice from our legal counsel.[/quote] [url]http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2016/12/09/aclu-sues-knightstown-over-christmas[/url]
[QUOTE=J!NX;51526916]But... its a [B]Christ[/B]... mas... tree as in... a [B]christ[/B]ian holiday WHAT the holiday is literally about the cross. Like, the entire point is that it's about Christ. :v:[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Xonax;51526967]It doesn't matter if Christians and non-Christians celebrate it, it was originally a Christian holiday. And technically still is, just everyone celebrates it now. A lot of stuff Christian related has been integrated into our society.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Tasm;51526999]Christ mas is not a Christian holiday Haha what the fuck[/QUOTE] [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule[/URL] Yeah about that
[QUOTE=viperfan7;51527006][URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule[/URL] Yeah about that[/QUOTE] this gives historical context to the traditions but it doesn't invalidate christmas as a christian holiday.
Christmas decorations are the most harmless display of religion and if you get butt flustered enough to sue you're a rotten person who needs to get the stick out of their ass. Who honesty cares that much? It's not like we have ISIS doing honor killings in the town square. Let everyone enjoy their religion or lack thereof. But realize were in a predominantly Christian country. Expecting equal representation is absurd. You must be one sad person if you have nothing better to do than go around shitting on people's beliefs. It's just a wooden cross/crescent moon. Calm your tits. [editline]14th December 2016[/editline] Religious symbols on public land does not bother me as long as it was put there by the people of that public, and as long as others have the right to display their own symbols.
[QUOTE=OvB;51527018]Christmas decorations are the most harmless display of religion and if you get butt flustered enough to sue you're a rotten person who needs to get the stick out of their ass. Who honesty cares that much? It's not like we have ISIS doing honor killings in the town square. Let everyone enjoy their religion or lack thereof. But realize were in a predominantly Christian country. Expecting equal representation is absurd. You must be one sad person if you have nothing better to do than go around shitting on people's beliefs. It's just a wooden cross/crescent moon. Calm your tits.[/QUOTE] especially in a community as small as this, something as little as a traditional cross on top of the town tree can help give a bit more identity. frankly, this lawsuit has hurt more people than it has helped.
You're honestly living under a rock if you haven't realized that there are now two christmases, a secular one and a christian one which share elements but which are distinct and separated.
[quote]The documents go on to say that every day, Tompkins “is forced to come into direct and unwelcome contact” with the cross on top of the tree as he drives through town. This, the suit says, has caused him “irreparable harm,” which can only be remedied by taking the cross down and paying Tompkins monetary damages.[/quote] Imagine being this fragile and this much of a whiny crybaby. It's a fucking cross! Christmas decoration!
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;51527016]this gives historical context to the traditions but it doesn't invalidate christmas as a christian holiday.[/QUOTE] Saying its a christian holiday is simply wrong though as its a holiday adapted from norse paganism in order to better fold the norse people into christianity. So no, it really isn't a christian holiday, it was just co-opted by christians to make the transition from norse paganism to christianity easier for people to grasp. Check out this page [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretatio_Christiana[/URL] It gives a very good explanation of what was done, not just with Yule but with really anything from other religions. Its not the first time this happened in history either, the greeks did so as well, [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretatio_graeca[/url]
[QUOTE=OvB;51527018]Expecting equal representation is absurd.[/QUOTE] Uh, the entire point of the first amendment is to protect against this kind of thing. [quote]Congress shall make no law respecting an [b]establishment of religion[/b], or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.[/quote] The entire decision based around putting a cross on the tree is just completely strange to me. They could've avoided this entire thing by using the much more common secular tradition of a star. By using a cross, it makes it clear that they're making this into a Christian display rather than a Christmas display.
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;51527000]update [url]http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2016/12/09/aclu-sues-knightstown-over-christmas[/url][/QUOTE] Can it be taken to the court of appeals? Not that I would think they're going to do it, but they can, right?
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