Court Hearing in NYC on Whether Chimps Have Rights
37 replies, posted
[IMG]http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/66129000/jpg/_66129157_hearing_sense_1.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE]Lawyers for two chimpanzees are heading to court to argue that the animals have
"personhood" rights and should be freed from the Long Island university where they are kept.
The Nonhuman Rights Project has filed the petition in state supreme court in Manhattan on
behalf of Leo and Hercules. The chimps are kept at Stony Brook University, where they are
used in locomotion studies. Stony Brook is part of the State University of New York system.
Their lawyers say in their petition that the court should recognize the chimps as "autonomous
and self-determining beings" who have the right to bodily liberty. They want to see them sent
to a sanctuary in Florida that they say is as close to living in nature as chimps can get in
North America.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]The chimps are not expected in court.[/QUOTE]
[THUMB]http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2014/04/27/magazine/27cover_text/27cover_text-tmagArticle.jpg[/THUMB]
Source:
[URL="http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/court-hearing-nyc-chimps-rights-31326197"]http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/court-hearing-nyc-chimps-rights-31326197[/URL]
I'm a chimp's rights activist
I don't think they can have autonomous and self-determining rights if they are unable to live on their own? I mean sure chimps are crazy smart, but they are still "pets" in a domestication-like sense. Like, humans can get a job when you're 16/18 or whatever but what is a chimp going to do? I mean sure a chimp would probably be a better barista than those hipsters at starbucks but can they really handle that shit. Maybe. I'll do some research
ah!
[quote]Why do chimpanzees seem so reluctant to help others? One possible explanation is that they're unable to understand the goals of another individual, resulting in an inability to create any sort of shared intentionality between two individuals.[/quote]
Chimps are assholes I guess.
And that's how the rise on the planet of the apes begun
I'm all for animal rights laws that give animals the right not to be abused, but I don't agree with this
I'm not a psychologist, and I can't find a clear cut definition of what a person is, but if you came up to me and said Chimps are people too, I'd laugh in your face. They're relatively smart animals but they can't form tight-knit massive communities beyond shared behaviour patterns across regions, barely innovate beyond figuring out what to do with collections of sticks, and they have barely progressed, if at all, in the past 2000 years in which humanity has gone from battering each other with primitive melee weapons to putting a man on the moon and communicating near-instantly from different sides of the planet.
If they aren't sapient, they're damn close. And if they are, they're probably in their Stone Age. So it makes perfect sense to give them sapient rights (the non-anthrocentric term for it), since they are capable of sign language even if they don't have the right vocal cords for human levels of speech.
Either way, they could probably do with a little elevation.
[QUOTE=Dr.Critic;47816314]I'm all for animal rights laws that give animals the right not to be abused, but I don't agree with this
I'm not a psychologist, and I can't find a clear cut definition of what a person is, but if you came up to me and said Chimps are people too, I'd laugh in your face. They're relatively smart animals but they can't form massive communities, barely innovate beyond figuring out what to do with collections of sticks, and they have barely progressed, if at all, in the past 2000 years in which humanity has gone from battering each other with primitive swords to putting a man on the moon and communicating near-instantly from different sides of the planet.[/QUOTE]
It's interesting though since there are still "primitive" humans out there that live in small tribes and such. Though they posses the same level as intelligence, they have different societal goals and suffer from environmental disadvantages and lack of resources.
[QUOTE=ironman17;47816326]If they aren't sapient, they're damn close. And if they are, they're probably in their Stone Age. So it makes perfect sense to give them sapient rights (the non-anthrocentric term for it), since they are capable of sign language even if they don't have the right vocal cords for human levels of speech.
Either way, they could probably do with a little elevation.[/QUOTE]
I might be totally wrong but weren't the gorillas only using the sign language with humans and it was theorized that they didn't actually understand what the signs meant but did it to get treats?
[QUOTE=Glitchman;47816334]It's interesting though since there are still "primitive" humans out there that live in small tribes and such. Though they posses the same level as intelligence, they have different societal goals and suffer from environmental disadvantages and lack of resources.[/QUOTE]
I can see where you're coming from, but Chimps, to my knowledge, have never formed into a civilisation of many thousands like the Romans, Greeks, Mesopotamians etc did and innovated on anything approaching the scale they did over any span of time though.
Chimp mega-cultures involve shared behaviour patterns from what I'm reading - is that not just natural selection?
[QUOTE=Dr.Critic;47816353]I can see where you're coming from, but Chimps, to my knowledge, have never formed into a civilisation of many thousands like the Romans, Greeks, Mesopotamians etc did and innovated on anything approaching the scale they did over any span of time though.
Chimp mega-cultures involve shared behaviour patterns from what I'm reading - is that not just natural selection?[/QUOTE]
Yes, as well as family bonds coupled with resource/sex related bonds
[url]http://www.janegoodall.ca/about-chimp-behaviour-social-organization.php[/url]
When we see chimps "building roads" we can give them rights. If no one understands the reference:
[url]http://satdude.com/4don/ebooks/Popular%20Science%20Books%20Collection/Richard%20Dawkins%20Collection/Dawkins%20Articles/Why%20don%E2%80%99t%20animals%20have%20wheels.pdf[/url]
The philosophical aspect is what I'm after here, not the whole stupid animals with wheels thing.
I dunno, this seems like a matter that professionals should decide on. We can speculate and discuss all we want, but I don't think anyone here would know what they were talking about.
No one or anything has rights in this world, we like to think we have rights but we are all puppets on invisible strings.
[QUOTE=Poppadomus;47816427]No one or anything has rights in this world, we like to think we have rights but we are all puppets on invisible strings.[/QUOTE]
Not sure if sarcasm or just classic teenager.
[QUOTE=Marik Bentusi;47816445]Not sure if sarcasm or just classic teenager.[/QUOTE]
Like, the [I]corporations [/I], man.
[QUOTE=Marik Bentusi;47816445]Not sure if sarcasm or just classic teenager.[/QUOTE]
You actually think you have rights? BaHAHAHAHAHAHAa
[QUOTE=Poppadomus;47816471]You actually think you have rights? BaHAHAHAHAHAHAa[/QUOTE]
who hurt you
[QUOTE=Poppadomus;47816471]You actually think you have rights? BaHAHAHAHAHAHAa[/QUOTE]
Careful son, that edge is pretty sharp. Be careful not to cut yourself.
[QUOTE=Poppadomus;47816427]No one or anything has rights in this world, we like to think we have rights but we are all puppets on invisible strings.[/QUOTE]
~[I]Craawwling inn my skiinn!~[/I]
[editline]27th May 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Poppadomus;47816471]You actually think you have rights? BaHAHAHAHAHAHAa[/QUOTE]
[I]~These wounds they will not heal!~~[/I]
[QUOTE=Poppadomus;47816471]You actually think you have rights? BaHAHAHAHAHAHAa[/QUOTE]
The fact we're even discussing this on the internet answers your question.
[QUOTE=Poppadomus;47816471]You actually think you have rights? BaHAHAHAHAHAHAa[/QUOTE]
So are you one of the Chimps from the article posting or what
Unless you're posting from Guantanamo or something, you have quite a bit of rights as we speak
Okay I am leaving the thread and never coming back :'(
wtf i go to stony brook and i never got the see the locomotion chimps
what am i even paying tuition for
Rosetta Stone did not sit on no damn bus for you chimps to be asking for rights.
I don't agree 100% with this, but it's relevant to the discussion:
[video=youtube;m9-R8T1SuG4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9-R8T1SuG4[/video]
This is just a ploy by greedy government officials to tax chimps. Not even being a different species can keep them from being robbed by the federal government
Aren't chimps equivalent to toddlers in terms of mental capacity?
[QUOTE=Poppadomus;47816649]Okay I am leaving the thread and never coming back :'([/QUOTE]
Shame that no one cares.
"Personhood and self-autonomous" rights are an all or none deal. Right now they're treated by the law as chimps, which are animals. Bringing them to a sanctuary is basically stealing them from the university. They can't give consent because they don't know what the fuck consent is, they can survive by themselves but they are not "people" and thus don't have "personhood" rights.
If we gave chimps "personhood rights" equal to humans, then we'd have to treat them like humans. They're not humans, they have no concept of law, so they'll end up in jail or an asylum when they inevitably rip someone's face off, throw shit at someone, litter, walk around indecently exposed, refuse to get a job, jaywalk, skip paying taxes, steal, rape, et cetera. If they have "personhood" rights, bringing them to the sanctuary is kidnapping, since they didn't consent to go. Instead they should be dropped off on the street, since they're "people" now, and people know how to get housing and a job to survive.
Seriously, this is just a feel-good court case that the judge is going to throw out without a second thought.
[QUOTE=Poppadomus;47816427]No one or anything has rights in this world, we like to think we have rights but we are all puppets on invisible strings.[/QUOTE]
Ultrons on Facepunch apparently.
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