EX-CIA Bin Laden Chief drops a bomb on Homeland Security Committe - Polidicks

[quote]On October 10 former CIA officer Michael Scheuer - once senior advisor for the Osama Bin Laden department - testified in front of a House Homeland Security Committee hearing about westerners joining jihadist groups. When asked what he thought the primary motivators for Islamic jihadists were, Scheuer listed among his answers American support for the Israelis, military presence in countries in the Arab world, and the willingness to identify as terrorists any Muslim country US allies do not like. Scheuer also said that it was time to tell people that costs came with US support for Israel: "If it was up to me I'd dump the Israelis tomorrow," he said, stating that he worries about the continued preaching of American politicians that the US relationship with Israel does not "cause us to have dead Americans." [/quote] [url]http://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/americas/7945-former-cia-officer-tells-security-committee-qid-dump-the-israelis-tomorrowq[/url] Video of the ex-CIA officer confronting the committee with what they don't want to hear. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHl1JnQoIWQ&feature=youtu.be[/media]

[quote]Scheuer also said that it was time to tell people that costs came with US support for Israel: "If it was up to me I'd dump the Israelis tomorrow," he said, stating that he worries about the continued preaching of American politicians that the US relationship with Israel does not "cause us to have dead Americans."[/quote]Extremely rare for someone as influential, to say that publicly, of course he has to be a "former" chief. It is a common consensus among the American intelligence community that Israel is a strategic liability (most agents dislike Israel), but it is never expressed publicly unless it is anonymous or after they leave their position since they still answer to the Executive branch, which of whom has their heads' up Israel's ass.

I know several people who work at the CIA, and they've all told me similar things. i.e., Al-Qaeda is largely politically motivated, or that Israel will throw us under a bus at the drop of a hat.

The best part is when one of the guy's argues "They attacked us for our freedumbs". Whenever I hear this, I get so goddamn frustrated thinking how absolutely misinformed and/or how much in denial some people are.

[QUOTE=Mingebox;42694923] Al-Qaeda is largely politically motivated.[/QUOTE] did anybody seriously think otherwise?

Here's the thing. The western world needs to continue to put pressure on the Middle East. Israel, while they misuse their power frequently, is in a way a cultural bastion. If you want the US to stop backing Israel, stop encouraging your women to dress like ninjas. Stop murdering gays. Stop killing Christians and Jews. Stop blowing up ancient ruins because they're profane to your imaginary friend. Stop associating with those who do.

[QUOTE=Lamar;42694973]The best part is when one of the guy's argues "They attacked us for our freedumbs". Whenever I hear this, I get so goddamn frustrated thinking how absolutely misinformed and/or how much in denial some people are.[/QUOTE] I really, really hate how some people here have this line of thinking that the US is the only country in the world that has "freedom".

[QUOTE=Grimhound;42695021]Here's the thing. The western world needs to continue to put pressure on the Middle East. Israel, while they misuse their power frequently, is in a way a cultural bastion. If you want the US to stop backing Israel, stop encouraging your women to dress like ninjas. Stop murdering gays. Stop killing Christians and Jews. Stop blowing up ancient ruins because they're profane to your imaginary friend. Stop associating with those who do.[/QUOTE] You realize, in part, out support of this so-called bastion is what has caused some of the radical islamist states to take such a hard line? There is, after all, the debacle that is Iran which in the 60's was a fairly liberal country. Then we whoops'd all over their democracy. Unofficially that is. Your arguments are literally tanamount to; "Those heathens are doing silly things. [I]Fuck having an open and fair dialogue with them."[/I]

[QUOTE=Grimhound;42695021]Here's the thing. The western world needs to continue to put pressure on the Middle East. Israel, while they misuse their power frequently, is in a way a cultural bastion. If you want the US to stop backing Israel, stop encouraging your women to dress like ninjas. Stop murdering gays. Stop killing Christians and Jews. Stop blowing up ancient ruins because they're profane to your imaginary friend. Stop associating with those who do.[/QUOTE] excuse me but you cant force a nation to change by pressuring it. chauvinism and exceptionalism have done nothing but harm to the world.

[QUOTE=Crazy Ivan;42695060]You realize, in part, out support of this so-called bastion is what has caused some of the radical islamist states to take such a hard line? There is, after all, the debacle that is Iran which in the 60's was a fairly liberal country. Then we whoops'd all over their democracy. Unofficially that is.[/QUOTE] Yep. Our governments fucked them and handed things over to the extremists, and continue to arm and train them to this day. Such is what happens when you try to fuck the world for all it's worth with zero regard for the future. This situation needs to be resolved, as I feel abandoning the region and letting this fester again would be very detrimental to everyone. We need to bring the modern world in, establish it, and drown out anything that opposes it. [QUOTE=thisispain;42695065]excuse me but you cant force a nation to change by pressuring it. chauvinism and exceptionalism have done nothing but harm to the world.[/QUOTE] Sure you can. You annex it. Be as the Romans. Bring roads, aqueducts, granaries, universities, and luxuries.

That is, bar none, the most egregiously imperialist commentary since Europe decided "Fuck Africa."

[QUOTE=Grimhound;42695103]Yep. Our governments fucked them and handed things over to the extremists, and continue to arm and train them to this day. Such is what happens when you try to fuck the world for all it's worth with zero regard for the future. This situation needs to be resolved, as I feel abandoning the region and letting this fester again would be very detrimental to everyone. We need to bring the modern world in, establish it, and drown out anything that opposes it.[/QUOTE] look at the USSR's attempts at that for a cue [editline]29th October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Grimhound;42695103] Sure you can. You annex it. Be as the Romans. Bring roads, aqueducts, granaries, universities, and luxuries.[/QUOTE] id suggest you actually look at history. people have argued that colonial imperialism had mutual benefits, but the same cannot be said for roman imperialism. roman imperialism was very brutal and negative to the subjects.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;42695143]You're essentially suggesting a full scale invasion of radical middle eastern countries in order to uproot their government and any disagreeable beliefs and traditions. The amount of deaths and violations of human rights that would go with such an action would be absolutely reprehensible. The disturbance that would cause in the international community, especially with China and Russia, makes that idea completely batshit crazy.[/QUOTE] Nope. Nope. No full scale invasion. That would be immeasurably foolish. You just tighten the screws. Press in culturally and get people used to walking like you walk and talking like you talk. You can't hold indefinitely with pure military strength, but you can press in with enterprise and finesse them... while taking care of pockets that attempt to organize against you violently in such a way where them fighting back gives no glory.

lovely how king relates al qaeda to all of islam [editline]29th October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=sloppy_joes;42694980]did anybody seriously think otherwise?[/QUOTE] there is actually a narrative in the US that is taken seriously by some that al qaeda (and in extension all muslims in the eyes of these people) hates america because of our freedoms

You should have listened. But you didn't. The Jewsmasher rises.

[QUOTE=Grimhound;42695103] Sure you can. You annex it. Be as the Romans. Bring roads, aqueducts, granaries, universities, and luxuries.[/QUOTE] Piss people off, they fall back on their fundamentalist beliefs and resist. The best way to make it happen is to make the people want to embrace western ideas by being free and prosperous ourselves.. Trying to force things on people makes them resist it more, look at US and Russian intervention in that whole region.

[QUOTE=Grimhound;42695021]Here's the thing. The western world needs to continue to put pressure on the Middle East. Israel, while they misuse their power frequently, is in a way a cultural bastion. If you want the US to stop backing Israel, stop encouraging your women to dress like ninjas. Stop murdering gays. Stop killing Christians and Jews. Stop blowing up ancient ruins because they're profane to your imaginary friend. Stop associating with those who do.[/QUOTE] hahaha. no. you honestly believe arabs NEED the western world to improve, you don't think they don't want to? fuck there are some saudi princes that are very pro-west/US, despite hating the US support for israel, the US is a global cultural center, the US is actually ruining its prestige by supporting israel. you can't force people to change their way of life by gunpoint, look at the USSR, they tried making the population atheist for instance, and embrace communism, they had nearly 70 years for that, did it work? fuck no. soft power plays a much bigger role in changing societies than hard power.

[QUOTE=Wizards Court;42695943] fuck there are some saudi princes that are very pro-west/US, despite hating the US support for israel, the US is a global cultural center, the US is actually ruining its prestige by supporting israel. [/QUOTE] Alot of Saudi Princes also fund global terrorism. They're pro America for the money and support. They don't welcome any liberal ideas into their country.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;42695972]Alot of Saudi Princes also fund global terrorism. They're pro America for the money and support. They don't welcome any liberal ideas into their country.[/QUOTE] there are shitloads of saudi princes, some are dicks, some aren't, thats kinda my point, you got people who support terrorism, etc, and those who are against it, by constantly pissing off the entire area, it makes the job of those who would like to bring change much harder.

Ugh that Mr. King and Mr Stewart are fucking smug idiots. I wish Scheuer was still running some shit.

[QUOTE=Lamar;42694832][url]http://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/americas/7945-former-cia-officer-tells-security-committee-qid-dump-the-israelis-tomorrowq[/url] Video of the ex-CIA officer confronting the committee with what they don't want to hear. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHl1JnQoIWQ&feature=youtu.be[/media][/QUOTE] King is a fucking retard with no argument, Stewart was pretty much fucking bullying. I think Scheuer had a decent argument.

[QUOTE=Grimhound;42695103]Yep. Our governments fucked them and handed things over to the extremists, and continue to arm and train them to this day. Such is what happens when you try to fuck the world for all it's worth with zero regard for the future. This situation needs to be resolved, as I feel abandoning the region and letting this fester again would be very detrimental to everyone. We need to bring the modern world in, establish it, and drown out anything that opposes it. [/QUOTE] Jesus that statement just made a complete fucking 180° like halfway through.

[QUOTE=Wizards Court;42695943]you honestly believe arabs NEED the western world to improve, you don't think they don't want to? fuck there are some saudi princes that are very pro-west/US, despite hating the US support for israel, the US is a global cultural center, the US is actually ruining its prestige by supporting israel.[/QUOTE]You can, however, remove the loudest voices in opposition with the business end of a gun, but you know what makes their voice truly quiet? A nice, dignified death in their sleep, perhaps a sudden heart attack. As you say, soft power plays a much bigger role than hard power. Nobody needs to know that the greatest voice of opposition to your agenda was killed, murdered even, by you. People will accept it, and anyone who says anything differently is clearly a conspiracy theorist just grabbing at straws and making up false information about a dead guy. [editline]30th October 2013[/editline] I'm not saying it's right, I'm not saying it's wrong, but I am saying that it works. ... As long as nobody finds out the truth, of course.

I don't think Americans are becoming terrorists cause of our foreign policy. I think they're just loners who feel like they fit with the terrorist. They were weirdos in America who had nothing, but they can be at 'heroes' in an Al Qaeda camp. These Americans who join the terrorist remind of the fuckers who shoot up schools.

[QUOTE=cqbcat;42697308]I don't think Americans are becoming terrorists cause of our foreign policy. I think they're just loners who feel like they fit with the terrorist. They were weirdos in America who had nothing, but they can be at 'heroes' in an Al Qaeda camp. These Americans who join the terrorist remind of the fuckers who shoot up schools.[/QUOTE] A few maybe, but on average people are far more likely to fight for something to believe in than against something they don't. The USA's wars against terror may seem like an exception, but even those have to be marketed as defensive. [editline]30th October 2013[/editline] Take radical converts for example, they don't go into terror camps because they think it's "fun", they do it because they think what they hold dear is worthwhile and actively being oppressed. (The latter part of which is probably true in some contexts even where it doesn't impede the freedom of others.)

[QUOTE=GetBent;42695041]I really, really hate how some people here have this line of thinking that the US is the only country in the world that has "freedom".[/QUOTE] Wasn't the US supprisingly low on the human freedom list?