• David Cameron backs 'life means life' sentences for murderers
    78 replies, posted
[quote=BBC]David Cameron has said "life should mean life" as the government considers US-style 100-year prison sentences for murderers and serious offenders.[/quote] [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25574176]Source[/url]
[QUOTE=Vodkavia;43394468]wouldn't "prison until you die" make more sense? I mean it's entirely possible for someone to live out 100 years of prison and if that happened it wouldn't be so "life means life."[/QUOTE] Aren't they doing the 100 year thing so that they avoid this as it breaches Human Rights?
[QUOTE=Simples;43394504]Aren't they doing the 100 year thing so that they avoid this as it breaches Human Rights?[/QUOTE] people usually have to breach human rights to do the crime that causes them to get life in prison. and imho breaching another persons right as a human being completely voids your own.
[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;43394571]people usually have to breach human rights to do the crime that causes them to get life in prison. and imho breaching another persons right as a human being completely voids your own.[/QUOTE] i dont like that line of thinking, theyre still human beings regardless of the crimes they committed.
[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;43394571]people usually have to breach human rights to do the crime that causes them to get life in prison. and imho breaching another persons right as a human being completely voids your own.[/QUOTE] Then those who get life should be subject to torture, a lack of food, water, education?
Yes because this will rehabilitate the ones who can be rehabilitated.
I think it should be evaluated in each individual case if the prisoner can be rehabilitated into society or not, with each inmate having the possibility to get evaluated once a year or something.
[QUOTE=Simples;43394601]Then those who get life should be subject to torture, a lack of food, water, education?[/QUOTE] Just because someone doesn't have rights doesn't mean they are going to be tortured or starved. The rights are there to protect them from that yes, but the lack of rights isn't a reason. I can't think of any crimes that would even warrant such punishment, but not being able to put someone in prison for life when you know they have no hope of rehabilitation just because of some old contracts is pretty silly. [editline]2nd January 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Vodkavia;43394619]Unfortunately for you that's not how it works, for the most part. That's a pretty dangerous double standard precedent.[/QUOTE] Why? I have nothing to worry about because I've never violated another persons' right as a human being.
I really don't like this "lock them up and throw away the key" approach; it's terribly archaic and does nothing to bring the justice system into the 21st century. That's not to say I'm against people spending the rest of their lives in prison, because if that is what's required then so be it. But the idea that people can be sent away for a century and not be given any opportunity to be assessed for release is preposterous.
[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;43394689]you know they have no hope of rehabilitation[/QUOTE] I don't think this is something you could possibly know, for any crime. [QUOTE=HybridTheroy;43394689]Why? I have nothing to worry about because I've never violated another persons' right as a human being.[/QUOTE] Where do you draw the line? If you have said something even slightly discriminatory sometime, it could be argued that you have violated human rights, so obviously a line needs to be drawn. Who gets to make an arbitrary line on who loses human rights and who doesn't? The potential problems are massive.
Prison is ineffective. It's a literal waste of time. Might as well bring back the death penalty if you're just going to leave people in cages for 100 years and not even attempt reform, cause that's literally what's happening anyway. Lenient sentencing is also pretty shitty. I think the solution lies in fiddling with the core belief system that people live by which leads them to commit crimes - I think that would actually have a decent chance at complete reformation without likelihood of relapse. I'm guessing that probably breaches 'human rights' though - the human right to believe whatever shit you want to believe. But as far as i'm concerned if you've acted on your belief that you can kill someone, then you're probably not stable enough to have your [I]own beliefs[/I] anymore as you've already demonstrated irresponsibility. Of course people like to believe that people are 'born psychopaths' or 'satan incarnate' and can never change (because change is scary) so actually convincing them that this would be more effective than just jamming them in a cell for 100 years would be pretty difficult.
[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;43394571]people usually have to breach human rights to do the crime that causes them to get life in prison. and imho breaching another persons right as a human being completely voids your own.[/QUOTE] An eye for an eye works every time.
[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;43394571]people usually have to breach human rights to do the crime that causes them to get life in prison. and imho breaching another persons right as a human being completely voids your own.[/QUOTE] The crime isn't always that black and white, yo.
[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;43394689] Why? I have nothing to worry about because I've never violated another persons' right as a human being.[/QUOTE] "It's okay for the government to do whatever they like to this particular group of people because I'm not a part of it."
[QUOTE=danharibo;43394911]An eye for an eye works every time.[/QUOTE] an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind
[QUOTE=Franke_R!?;43394916]The crime isn't always that black and white, yo.[/QUOTE] But you can make it black and white. if the person kills someone, then they are no longer protected by the law if someone tries to claim their life. if the person steals from someone, then they are no longer protected by the law if someone tries to claim their stuff. etc. see how easy that was to make it black and white
The only "actual life" sentences I can imagine is for people like Anders Behring Breivik and the recent case in the US with the guy who locked away those three women for 10 years. But that ought to be very, very special cases and not something to take into common practise. [editline]3rd January 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=HybridTheroy;43395077]But you can make it black and white. if the person kills someone, then they are no longer protected by the law if someone tries to claim their life. if the person steals from someone, then they are no longer protected by the law if someone tries to claim their stuff. etc. see how easy that was to make it black and white[/QUOTE] And does that seem like a very bright idea to you?
[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;43395077]But you can make it black and white. if the person kills someone, then they are no longer protected by the law if someone tries to claim their life. if the person steals from someone, then they are no longer protected by the law if someone tries to claim their stuff. etc. see how easy that was to make it black and white[/QUOTE] This is a terrible idea.
Locking people up for the rest of their lives isn't the proper way to go about solving problems.
[QUOTE=DrDevil;43394631]I think it should be evaluated in each individual case if the prisoner can be rehabilitated into society or not, with each inmate having the possibility to get evaluated once a year or something.[/QUOTE] Many countries do this to some degree, Canada has a similar program for people with high possibility to reoffend.
Prisons in the UK are already heavily overpopulated, so this should help with that :downs:
[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;43395077]But you can make it black and white. if the person kills someone, then they are no longer protected by the law if someone tries to claim their life. if the person steals from someone, then they are no longer protected by the law if someone tries to claim their stuff. etc. see how easy that was to make it black and white[/QUOTE] I kill a drug lord who has barged into my house and threatened my children with a flamethrower. He didn't kill anyone, but I killed him. I now no longer have rights by your system. Boom.
[QUOTE=LarparNar;43395131]This is a terrible idea.[/QUOTE] May be a terrible idea. But that's what people do, come up with ideas. The police are here to serve and protect the innocent, why have them waste resources to serve and protect delinquents? Seems people would be less prone to breaking a window to steal a radio if that would mean if (s)he was found out then (s)he could have all his/her belongings taken by the victim while (s)he sits in jail.
[QUOTE=theblah12;43394429][URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25574176"]Source[/URL][/QUOTE] why does our supposedly "pro-rehabilitation" prime minister want to make prison sentences 800% longer [editline]2nd January 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=HybridTheroy;43395243]May be a terrible idea. But that's what people do, come up with ideas. The police are here to serve and protect the innocent, why have them waste resources to serve and protect delinquents? Seems people would be less prone to breaking a window to steal a radio if that would mean if (s)he was found out then (s)he could have all his/her belongings taken by the victim while (s)he sits in jail.[/QUOTE] congratulations on having the worst idea i've ever heard well done
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;43395205]I kill a drug lord who has barged into my house and threatened my children with a flamethrower. He didn't kill anyone, but I killed him. I now no longer have rights by your system. Boom.[/QUOTE] by my system you would no longer be protected by law if someone tried to kill you. You obviously dont need the protection because you killed a drug lord that had a flamethrower while being taken by surprise in an enclosed area. [editline]3rd January 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=BrainDeath;43395249] congratulations on having the worst idea i've ever heard well done[/QUOTE] And im still unconvinced because thats all people can say
[QUOTE=Wiggles;43394796]I really don't like this "lock them up and throw away the key" approach; it's terribly archaic and does nothing to bring the justice system into the 21st century. That's not to say I'm against people spending the rest of their lives in prison, because if that is what's required then so be it. But the idea that people can be sent away for a century and not be given any opportunity to be assessed for release is preposterous.[/QUOTE] yeah, this remember my thread about inmates knitting? knitting is such an overlooked little activity but it legitimately helped a lot of people in prison. not everybody can turn their life around, but that doesn't mean we should just give up and not try.
[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;43395290]by my system you would no longer be protected by law if someone tried to kill you. You obviously dont need the protection because you killed a drug lord that had a flamethrower while being taken by surprise in an enclosed area. [/QUOTE] Yeah man and soldiers shouldn't get any legal protection either, I mean they can kill people so obviously they don't need it.
[QUOTE=CatFodder;43395370]Yeah man and soldiers shouldn't get any legal protection either, I mean they can kill people so obviously they don't need it.[/QUOTE] if the whole world used my system there would be no need to have soldiers or wars but even if, they would have proven time and time again that they can protect themselves unless they are not very good soldiers in which case they would not have killed anyone and still in need of protection
[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;43395243]Seems people would be less prone to breaking a window to steal a radio if that would mean if (s)he was found out then (s)he could have all his/her belongings taken by the victim while (s)he sits in jail.[/QUOTE] Completely taking away people's rights because they broke the law will do nothing but further alienate them from society upon release.
[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;43395391]if the whole world used my system there would be no need to have soldiers or wars but even if, they would have proven time and time again that they can protect themselves unless they are not very good soldiers in which case they would not have killed anyone and still in need of protection[/QUOTE] lmao how old are you
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