• US bugged Merkel's phone from 2002 until 2013, report claims
    28 replies, posted
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24690055[/url] [QUOTE]The US has been spying on German Chancellor Angela Merkel's mobile phone since 2002, according to a report in Der Spiegel magazine. The German publication claims to have seen secret documents from the National Security Agency which show Mrs Merkel's number on a list dating from 2002 - before she became chancellor. Her number was still on a surveillance list in 2013.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Meanwhile Washington has seen a protest against the NSA's spying programme. Several thousand protesters marched to the US Capitol to demand a limit to the surveillance. Some of them held banners in support of the fugitive former contractor Edward Snowden, who revealed the extent of the NSA's activities.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Mrs Merkel phoned the US president when she first heard of the spying allegations on Wednesday. President Barack Obama promised Mrs Merkel he knew nothing of the alleged phone monitoring[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]The chancellor is said to be shocked that Washington may have engaged in the sort of spying that she had to deal with while growing up in Communist East Germany.[/QUOTE] US and its massive spying boner strikes again.
ITS HAPPENI- haha just kidding no its not
"Just making sure you weren't changing back to fascists. Keep up the gut work!" -NSA
[quote]Mrs Merkel phoned the US president when she first heard of the spying allegations on Wednesday.[/quote] I'm imagining this playing out like a kid getting told off over the phone by their mother.
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;42657935]I'm imagining this playing out like a kid getting told off over the phone by their mother.[/QUOTE] I wonder what the NSA guy though of THAT conversation
I went to Germany and touched the handle to her office door. Reminds me of when Al Gore came to my elementary school in Arkansas during his campaign and I touched his shirt and fancy cars :v:.
[QUOTE=person11;42658029]I wonder what the NSA guy though of THAT conversation[/QUOTE] "hey guys get in here they're talking about us!" "haha I bet she's so pissed"
I find it kind of funny that for months the German government has been downplaying the events about their citizens being spied upon, and suddenly when it turns out they got Merkel too they throw up a massive shitstorm.
Translation: Intel services are doing their jobs rather than illegally overreaching against innocent civilians here. For once. Apparently a broken clock does its' job once a day... Merkel's a Head of State of a foreign government, so she's fair game and this is standard procedure. If anybody thinks the Germans don't do this to us, let me assure you: they do.
[QUOTE=Turtler;42672215]Translation: Intel services are doing their jobs rather than illegally overreaching against innocent civilians here. For once. Apparently a broken clock does its' job once a day... Merkel's a Head of State of a foreign government, so she's fair game and this is standard procedure. If anybody thinks the Germans don't do this to us, let me assure you: they do.[/QUOTE] No. A known terrorist state is understandable, but a fucking ally? The US is beyond paranoid.
11/10 phone would tap
[QUOTE=Van-man;42672230]No. A known terrorist state is understandable, but a fucking ally? The US is beyond paranoid.[/QUOTE] Wonderful. Got any proof to back up that "No", or are you just tossing it out because it sounds Kool? And Correction: [B]Intelligence Services In General[/B] are beyond paranoid, and if you believe this is atypical or overreach I'd beg you to do research. In case you haven't noticed the numerous scandals discovered where the Israelis have spied on the US, the US has spied on the Israelis, the French have spied on both and the Germans and been spied on by all of the above, and the Germans...spy and get spied on by everybody as well. Just about every faction and nation on the planet had been spying in Germany for decades by the time of Reunification, and by the time that happened there was absolutely no reason to stop. In case you don't realize that sometimes "Fucking Allies" are not as reliable or as quick-to-tell as we (or anybody else) needs to be. There's a reason why the Israelis couldn't afford to file a request to know with West German Intel when the BDR's intel was playing some of the most byzantine games imaginable with them and the Arab League. There's a reason absolutely nobody begged Gerhard Schroeder to let his phone be bugged when he was busy making deals with Putin. And there's a reason why the Germans don't ask us when they're doing things like listening in to our records in order to track known American Neo-Nazis, Turkish Ultranationalists, or Islamist advocates that are in their general neighborhood. Because it is necessary for them, and it is their job and duty to do it and they never fully know when it might be essential to them. Believe me; this is business as usual. And it's still far more gentlemanly and less cutthroat affair than-say- spying or being spied on by the Russians, Chinese, Iranians, DPRK, etc. If this were from one of them, *then* I'd be worried. Edit: And no, this is not something I particularly like. But I haven't seen anybody else come up with a good alternative. That goes double for you geniuses. So do you have any actual evidence to back up your claims that this is something unprecedented or beyond the pale? Do you have any actual alternative plans that would work better? Or are you just commenting on something you don't know about? If you do have them, [B]please[/B] share. I'd be happy to hear them, and I am actually not being sarcastic there.
[QUOTE=Turtler;42672215]Translation: Intel services are doing their jobs rather than illegally overreaching against innocent civilians here. For once. Apparently a broken clock does its' job once a day... Merkel's a Head of State of a foreign government, so she's fair game and this is standard procedure. If anybody thinks the Germans don't do this to us, let me assure you: they do.[/QUOTE] but a broken clock does its job twice a day
[QUOTE=Van-man;42672230]No. A known terrorist state is understandable, but a fucking ally? The US is beyond paranoid.[/QUOTE] The only allies to the US intelligence community are the Five Eyes. Germany isn't on that list. Even supposed allies can be working against a friendly country if it benefits them, and someone has to figure it out covertly. Generally governments are loathe to reveal information that may make them look bad, and the only way to keep them honest is to keep them accountable to the rest of the world. Do you have any counter-examples to what Turtler said?
[QUOTE=Irkalla;42672639]but a broken clock does its job twice a day[/QUOTE] That would depend on the format. Edit: Besides, I just realized a flaw in my prior comment, and would like to edit it. "Translation: The Intel services are at least *trying* to do their jobs rather than getting into illegal overreach against the home front. For once." Since their job isn't just gathering intel, it's gathering intel [I]without being detected![/I] Oh well, thought that counts and all that.... [QUOTE=catbarf;42672741]The only allies to the US intelligence community are the Five Eyes. Germany isn't on that list. Even supposed allies can be working against a friendly country if it benefits them, and someone has to figure it out covertly. Generally governments are loathe to reveal information that may make them look bad, and the only way to keep them honest is to keep them accountable to the rest of the world. Do you have any counter-examples to what Turtler said?[/QUOTE] Agreed overall, though I wouldn't quite go that far. Germany (and India, and Europe in general) is at *least* as much of an ally as New Zealand is given their misbehavior Re:ANZUS. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't spy on our allies. If anything, it's a sad necessity. Edit the Second: Yes Van-Man, I noticed that. Now do you actually have any evidence or arguments, or are you just putting on a light show?
I can't help but think these new users defending NSA spying are some sort of government workers themselves trying to sway opinion and keep the peace.
[QUOTE=breakyourfac;42672843]I can't help but think these new users defending NSA spying are some sort of government workers themselves trying to sway opinion and keep the peace.[/QUOTE] It's an understandable concern, and I can't even say it's false in regards to the others.. Hell, I have plenty of problems with the NSA and what it and its' masters have been doing (especially domestically). But unfortunately, I have to play Devil's Advocate for cases like this. And as a moment of disclosure: there is no way in heck Obama would hire/keep me employed if he had the choice. So like it or not, I'm here on behalf of nobody but myself. As for anybody else... I can't vouch for them. Edit: That said, it's generous you'd think government workers (especially for the NSA) would be trying to keep the peace. Considering what they've done as of late... well, I'm not altogether sure I'd be so generous. I don't mean to say I'm hiding in a forest because I am in fear of an Obama ReichCaliphate (which has so much wrong with the very idea that I think we all know what it is). It's just that the NSA probably has less-charitable reasons for wanting to sway opinion. An investigation would bring up all kinds of things about it (probably not SecretTotalitarian tripe, but petty corruption, abuse of powers, etc) that the people who would get fried because of it would obviously not want to happen. Sort of like the small town Sheriff who doesn't want people to know he's a peeping tom and embezzler, but far worse.
[QUOTE=breakyourfac;42672843]I can't help but think these new users defending NSA spying are some sort of government workers themselves trying to sway opinion and keep the peace.[/QUOTE] We might have lost Germany and out biggest allies but [B]DAMNIT[/B] we are [B]NOT[/B] loosing Facepunch!
[QUOTE=breakyourfac;42672843]I can't help but think these new users defending NSA spying are some sort of government workers themselves trying to sway opinion and keep the peace.[/QUOTE] I cant help but think you are a shitlord who has embedded them selves into facepunch with thousands of shitposts to spread your propaganda.4 [sp]please don't tell me you guys actually took that serious[/sp]
[QUOTE=Sally;42673805]I cant help but think you are a shitlord who has embedded them selves into facepunch with thousands of shitposts to spread your propaganda.[/QUOTE] Ok.... even If I might've otherwise agreed with you.... That's too far.
[QUOTE=breakyourfac;42672843]I can't help but think these new users defending NSA spying are some sort of government workers themselves trying to sway opinion and keep the peace.[/QUOTE] i bet you've got a story or two to tell us about this
You can tell who has and hasn't played Civ5 in this thread by their inability to understand why the US government is so paranoid. Allies aren't friends, they're just your last enemies
[QUOTE=Sally;42673805]I cant help but think you are a shitlord who has embedded them selves into facepunch with thousands of shitposts to spread your propaganda.4 [sp]please don't tell me you guys actually took that serious[/sp][/QUOTE] sally please stop trolling outside the badbanana thread
[QUOTE=Dr.C;42675220]You can tell who has and hasn't played Civ5 in this thread by their inability to understand why the US government is so paranoid. Allies aren't friends, they're just your last enemies[/QUOTE] This doesn't justify it, you still should not be allowed to spy on other people, especially the leaders of other countries
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;42675598]This doesn't justify it, you still should not be allowed to spy on other people, especially the leaders of other countries[/QUOTE] I feel as if the NSA has been using a best 2 out of 3 solution for spying using these three questions: Can we do it? Will the info potentially be an asset to the mission? Should we do it? and now they're getting hammered for perusing all the 'Yes Yes No' operations.
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;42675598]This doesn't justify it, you still should not be allowed to spy on other people, especially the leaders of other countries[/QUOTE] In an ideal world where those leaders of other countries aren't secretly plotting anything that'll give them an advantage that they can get away with, sure.
Must be awkward knowing the past 11 years of your phone, text message and probably email life (no way they stopped at phone if others got their emails watched) you thougt were private were not.
[QUOTE=The Baconator;42675790]Must be awkward knowing the past 11 years of your phone, text message and probably email life (no way they stopped at phone if others got their emails watched) you thougt were private were not.[/QUOTE] Any politician (hell, anyone of importance) who thinks their email and phone messages are secure without additional security is clueless at best. You think the North Koreans, Russians, Iranians, or Chinese would have second thoughts about bugging the chancellor's phone? There's not a whole lot of security inherent to the telecom infrastructure, too many points vulnerable to exploitation.
"Barack we need to talk, it's urgent" "I know"
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