"Understanding the Zoepost" - Abuse Survivor's Look at Zoe Quinn - General

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_UKErD0uGQ[/media] The video is 55 minutes long, but there is an annotation that will let you skip straight to the Zoepost itself. I highly recommend watching the full starting introduction, though, because it explains what emotional abuse is from an official source, and how/why Zoe's behavior in this part is abusive. There will be multiple parts too, including: gaslighting, guilt tripping, suicidal threats.

What did I just watch.

[QUOTE=Aide;46036630]What did I just watch.[/QUOTE] a detailed analysis of an abusive relationship. i'm glad this video is being made, and i'm glad it's actively disassociating itself with gamergate bullshit. if anything should be taken away from this drama, it's that zoe quinn is an emotionally abusive person who should not be trusted

-snip-

[QUOTE=Reimu;46036755]Hunkering down for the negative responses from people stuck in the hivemind. Got this one on tumblr:[/QUOTE] i don't know anything, but this video is bad

"Help my echo chamber is being challenged and I feel unsafe. Take me to the hugbox, I want to blindly support ZQ again"

Not a huge issue but this is driving me crazy. Is it Z-oh, or Zoh-e. I always thought that name was pronounced as the latter?

It's actually the latter and I fucked it up.

Oh hey you're the guy who made the video. How's it goin' guy? I'm interested in the suicidal threats one. Dealt with a girl like that a while back. [sp]Well I'm assuming because you said you fucked it up.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Wolverunder;46036988]Oh hey you're the guy who made the video. How's it goin' guy? I'm interested in the suicidal threats one. Dealt with a girl like that a while back. [sp]Well I'm assuming because you said you fucked it up.[/sp][/QUOTE] Yup, I made it! The suicidal threats one will be interesting if everything comes together. I'm hoping to show a shitload of logs in that one in which suicidal threats appear, and then explaining just how insidious they are. I'm sorry to hear that too. Suicidal threats are really nasty shit. They can fuck you up so bad.

mind posting / pming a link to the post on tumblr? I'd like to reblog it

[QUOTE=LZTYBRN;46037024]mind posting / pming a link to the post on tumblr? I'd like to reblog it[/QUOTE] Sorry, I deleted it. These things snowball really fast and I wanted to shut it down before I end up with 50 notes calling me a predator because I dared to out an abuser.

Zo' and Iran Really good and informative video. I don't have enough time tonight, I think I'll be finishing it later. I have no history with abuse, nor does anyone I'm close to, and yet I'm very interested in future videos. Thank you for putting these out.

Forgive me for asking, but have you ever been in an interpersonal relationship of any sort? And if so then did you either have one with a depressed or otherwise emotionally unstable person and/or go through a breakup? Also would you mind giving some detail about what your own experiences with abuse were like? Additional apologies if you've already explained some of these elsewhere, if you have then please just direct me to them so you don't have to go through it again. I'd just like to better understand your perspective here.

This is one of the most in-depth analysis of not only the zeopost. But also the emotional processes of an abuser. It's one thing to see the definition of abuse but to actually see those processes brought to light is incredible. It's fascinating, but yet extremely unsettling and horrifying. You've done a fantastic job on this OP.

Your points were strong because you could point out exactly how she was being abusive, but your point would have been more powerful if you gave what was going on more context, as well as the conversations in general. For example when you analyze the at 12:06 your point about her abuse would be more powerful if you spelled out exactly what happened. She cheated on him twice and when confronted said part of the reason she did it because he said he loved her, and she said the way he said it wasn't compelling to her making her feel empty And also I don't think you have to analyze every piece of conversation they have. You make your points very well and it's easy to see how fucked their relationship is.

[QUOTE=Lick;46038193]Your points were strong because you could point out exactly how she was being abusive, but your point would have been more powerful if you gave what was going on more context, as well as the conversations in general. For example when you analyze the at 12:06 your point about her abuse would be more powerful if you spelled out exactly what happened. She cheated on him twice and when confronted said part of the reason she did it because he said he loved her, and she said the way he said it wasn't compelling to her making her feel empty And also I don't think you have to analyze every piece of conversation they have. You make your points very well and it's easy to see how fucked their relationship is.[/QUOTE] the fucked up thing is that he said in the comments that he already cut a lot of stuff out. and unfortunately i don't think people will listen unless it's drilled into their heads that this is not healthy behavior

As somebody who managed to escape an emotionally abusive relationship a few months ago, it's amazing to see how much their behaviour is reflected in the things Zoe says. Some of the stuff is almost word-for-word.

[QUOTE=asteroidrules;46037422]Forgive me for asking, but have you ever been in an interpersonal relationship of any sort? And if so then did you either have one with a depressed or otherwise emotionally unstable person and/or go through a breakup? Also would you mind giving some detail about what your own experiences with abuse were like? Additional apologies if you've already explained some of these elsewhere, if you have then please just direct me to them so you don't have to go through it again. I'd just like to better understand your perspective here.[/QUOTE] I don't want to go too much into it, I hope you'll understand. In my case, my abuser wasn't a boyfriend/girlfriend, but she behaved a LOT like Zoe. There was a lot of shifting responsibility, gaslighting, guilt tripping, and overbearing control. When I was older, there were even suicidal threats. I have fleas from that abuse (basically - abusive behavior rubbing off onto yourself), which ZQ also exhibits based on her own history with abuse. I've considered going back to therapy in order to get rid of them once and for all. The truth is, I actually have a lot in common with ZQ. So I'm talking about these things from the perspective of not just Eron, but also Zoe. I understand why someone would act like Zoe and hurt other people, so that gives me a leg up in doing these kind of videos. I'm just trying to turn that understanding into something positive and accessible for people who are unfamiliar with abuse. [editline]21st September 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Lick;46038193]Your points were strong because you could point out exactly how she was being abusive, but your point would have been more powerful if you gave what was going on more context, as well as the conversations in general. For example when you analyze the at 12:06 your point about her abuse would be more powerful if you spelled out exactly what happened. She cheated on him twice and when confronted said part of the reason she did it because he said he loved her, and she said the way he said it wasn't compelling to her making her feel empty And also I don't think you have to analyze every piece of conversation they have. You make your points very well and it's easy to see how fucked their relationship is.[/QUOTE] Context is key, that's true. I think I'll focus on that more for the next video. Also, TheHydra is pretty spot on for this: the video needs a real lot of proof so people realize how frequently this happens. I think the total citations I had were around 47, and the 15 - 17 I cut were either a.) redundant, or b.) too subtle to make a good case for without context. 55 minutes might feel like overkill, but the time length alone should give people a heads-up that this is something serious that can be analyzed for a very, very long time. 55 minutes is longer than most therapy sessions.

[QUOTE=Wolverunder;46036820]Not a huge issue but this is driving me crazy. Is it Z-oh, or Zoh-e. I always thought that name was pronounced as the latter?[/QUOTE] Yeah. Also I thought it was [b]E[/b]ron? I just assumed that Reimu asked how to pronounce both and didn't give it much thought after that. BTW can I ask what the fuck gaslighting means? I see it constantly, but never actually bothered to google it (mostly because I hardly trust the stuff that always comes out first on things like this).

[QUOTE=gudman;46040008]Yeah. Also I thought it was [b]E[/b]ron? I just assumed that Reimu asked how to pronounce both and didn't give it much thought after that. BTW can I ask what the fuck gaslighting means? I see it constantly, but never actually bothered to google it (mostly because I hardly trust the stuff that always comes out first on things like this).[/QUOTE] I actually didn't, whoops. After I showed him the video, Eron told me the "e" is like the "e" in "red." So I think it's suppose to be more like "Err-on." I'll double check with him. Either way Zoe should be pronounced "Zoey," and that's a serious issue because it's a bit of a pet peeve for Zoe and her friends. Will be a lot easier to reach others if I pronounce her damn name right! [quote] BTW can I ask what the fuck gaslighting means? I see it constantly, but never actually bothered to google it (mostly because I hardly trust the stuff that always comes out first on things like this). [/quote] Basically, an abuser does or says something, and, when confronted, acts as if it never happened. It's done to upset the victim, and make them second-guess themselves. There's various forms of gaslighting. Here's a few: Abuser: (yells harshly at victim) Victim: You're yelling at me! Abuser: What? I'm not yelling at you? What are you talking about? I'm just trying to have a conversation with you. OR Abuser: (claims sound is too loud on TV, despite being normal tone) Victim: I don't think it's that loud from here. Abuser: Yes it is! It's killing my ears! Turn it down. Both of those are forms of control. When they become patterns, we have a problem.

[QUOTE=Reimu;46040086]"Err-on" [/QUOTE] Yeah that's just what I imagined. Haha, how could you not ask, it's not really obvious :v: [QUOTE=Reimu;46040086] Abuser: (yells harshly at victim) Victim: You're yelling at me! Abuser: What? I'm not yelling at you? What are you talking about? I'm just trying to have a conversation with you. [/QUOTE] Oh shit. I'm kinda guilty of that: I don't like to raise my voice, but in the heat of the moment I just might, and when confronted, I'll deny it. Never knew that it can have such an effect, I should restrain myself.

Eron said on tumblr that he pretty much accepted that people won't pronounce it right! But I should have asked, it literally slipped my mind. I'm hoping I didn't ruin how people pronounce his name though :v: Also, don't worry about it too much. The key word here is patterns of behavior. The truth is, everyone does unhealthy things now and then, and everyone has unhealthy moments. Part of being human is making mistakes; being unhealthy is, in fact, what makes us human. However, the problem is when your unhealthy behavior becomes a constant pattern that defines your relationships, and is joined with other unhealthy patterns of behavior. I'm guessing that your unhealthy moments crop up every now and then, maybe like once every couple weeks. It's important to be aware of your unhealthy moments, and to work on becoming a better person, but it's totally OK to have unhealthy moments now and then. It's not healthy to have unhealthy moments consistently throughout your relationship. Zoe's unhealthy moments crop up 47 times among three or four chat logs. Huge difference there!

[QUOTE=Reimu;46040510]Eron said on tumblr that he pretty much accepted that people won't pronounce it right! But I should have asked, ha. Also, don't worry about it too much. The key word here is patterns. Everyone does unhealthy things and has unhealthy moments; being unhealthy is, in fact, what makes us human. The problem is when your unhealthy behavior becomes a constant pattern. I'm guessing that your unhealthy moments crop up every now and then, maybe like once every couple weeks. Zoe's unhealthy moments crop up 47 times among three or four chat logs. Huge difference there![/QUOTE] No, I realize that there's a difference. I'm not an abuser, far from it. I just never knew that it's somehow unhealthy. Because to me it seemed if not "normal", but... understandable? That's what shocked me, that I never thought that if done "properly", - if such a word can be used here, in a way, - this can be used to disorient and control someone. That's scary when I think about it, especially that abusers do it kinda naturally most of the time. They didn't learn it somewhere, no one trained them to do it.

That's understandable. That's the key here, too: everything is subtle. That's why all those game journalists thought this was just "dirty laundry." The abuse was so subtle, they didn't notice it. Generally speaking, people will only notice abuse going on when they've seen abuse first-hand, or recognize the patterns, or breakdown their own ignorance on abuse. Most of the GameJournoPros folks, for instance, have no understanding of abuse. Hence why they all trashed on Eron. It's really quite disgusting and sickening, it means most of these journos have probably seen abuse go on in the industry yet [i]never called it out[/i] before. And, trust me, there's a lot of abuse going on in the industry. A few other people came out to me last month talking about getting abused by people close to ZQ. There's a lot of abusers. We're lucky Eron was willing to take this risk. He blew the lid on the indie community being full of these fuckers.

I wish I could understand things like you

Unfortunately, to understand it like Reimu does, one has to go through a lot I imagine. I consider that I went through a lot of shit in my time, including abusive relationships, and I have my eyes opened to even more - just like that. Almost casually.

Definitely, this shit isn't easy to understand. Like I said above, I have fleas, so I can understand how these behaviors appear and why people do them. It's all about control - whether subconscious or conscious, it doesn't matter. It's intended to make another person feel bad. Again, the truth is, I have a lot in common with ZQ in this regard. So I can see through her bullshit and recognize the patterns that others have done to me, and I have done to others. If it wasn't for my self-realization that I have all these fucked up behavioral patterns that I have to check myself on, I probably would have ended up like Zoe. It freaks me out, but I know why Zoe acts this way. Or, at least, can see why. And the best thing I can do is turn that realization into something positive, and help my fellow survivors and help people navigate this shit.

an hour long analysis by a gaming forum poster explaining why a stranger none of you have met is a bad person for cheating on their partner wow [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Alt of permabanned user Kopimi" - Craptasket))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=bbddi;46041846]an hour long analysis by a gaming forum poster explaining why a stranger none of you have met is a bad person for cheating on their partner wow[/QUOTE] Looks like somebody didn't watch the video! Did you even know that cheating only pops up two or three times in all of those 55 minutes, and the only context it appears in is in relation to blame shifting and guilt tripping when confronted about wrongdoings in the relationship? I'm guessing you didn't since you obviously have zero understanding of what was in the video. Hint: I'm not a rando, I'm an abuse survivor and Zoe Quinn hangs out in my subreddit. She's not just some random person on twitter, she's part of my subreddit community, I think that gives me more authority to talk about who she is if she interacts with me.