I've heard a bit of Capitalist mutterings about the integrity of Communism. Something to the effect of, "being a bum pays just as well as being a doctor or a lawyer" I find these views very misinformed. First of all, bums only get what money people give to them, there is no wage for begging. Second, to get to the title of this thread, the No.1 purpose of Communism is to get the job done. If all jobs are equal, everyone will be just as willing to do the job. You don't have to feel bad for working as a checker at a grocery store compared to a doctor. The construction worker does not feel inadequate to the politician. There is a lack of undesirable jobs because you get the same thing from each occupation. It is a place where people are truly equal both in opportunities and in occupation, the sewage worker is equal to the military general. Just as it should be for a perfect world to work. There would be no malcontent due to jobs because they are all equally important and their holders would be treated equally.
1.) There are no bums in a completely Communist society.
2.) Sure that man who was to lazy to educate himself doesn't have to feel bad because he doesn't make as much, however the doctor who actually did won't make as much as that guy who spent his school days slacking off.*
3.) How do you figure there will be no malcontent? No one wants to do a job that will be hard and they don't want to do if there isn't a lot of money for it.
*In a true Communist society currency would be abolished, everything would be free.
[QUOTE=Chippy]1.) There are no bums in a completely Communist society.
2.) Sure that man who was to lazy to educate himself doesn't have to feel bad because he doesn't make as much, however the doctor who actually did won't make as much as that guy who spent his school days slacking off.*
3.) How do you figure there will be no malcontent? No one wants to do a job that will be hard and they don't want to do if there isn't a lot of money for it.
*In a true Communist society currency would be abolished, everything would be free.[/QUOTE]
Now that would be Roddenberry socialism, but anyway, to your first point. Of course there would be no bums, I am sorry I did not remember to make that clear. There would be no bums because there is never a shortage of jobs in communism. You are always working for the greater good. Never would you find a time where you could not or would not want another body working. Second, if communism is done correctly, nobody is slacking because everyone is striving for a better world (due to the communist mindset; lets work together to better ourselves and each other.) Simply put wanting to be better and help would be ingrained into our minds. Nobody would want to slack off. And finally, of course nobody would want to be paid very little, but if this is communism, everyone is paid the same. That would not be a very ludicrous sum but everyone would be well off to say the least. And besides everyone is working hard because they are striving to push themselves into a greater better future. Simply put, there would be no easy jobs but there would be no insanely hard jobs.
[QUOTE=Dark Kite]Now that would be Roddenberry socialism, but anyway, to your first point. Of course there would be no bums, I am sorry I did not remember to make that clear. There would be no bums because there is never a shortage of jobs in communism. You are always working for the greater good. Never would you find a time where you could not or would not want another body working. Second, if communism is done correctly, nobody is slacking because everyone is striving for a better world (due to the communist mindset; lets work together to better ourselves and each other.) Simply put wanting to be better and help would be ingrained into our minds. Nobody would want to slack off. And finally, of course nobody would want to be paid very little, but if this is communism, everyone is paid the same. That would not be a very ludicrous sum but everyone would be well off to say the least. And besides everyone is working hard because they are striving to push themselves into a greater better future. Simply put, there would be no easy jobs but there would be no insanely hard jobs.[/QUOTE]
How do you figure there would be no "Insanely hard" jobs. Have all the hard jobs of today magically been obliterated in the perfect Communist society which has to cut off all contact with any Capitalist one simply to keep the citizens doing what they're supposed to be doing?
And who would be directing the propaganda and such, someone would have to make it and broadcast it, and someone above him would have to authorize it, and since the government isn't allowed in Communism how would you get that propaganda to the people. Obviously you can't let anyone put their words on the posters, the radios, and the television. There views might differ ever so slightly from the ideal of Communism. However for that ideal of Communism it would need a founding body and something to base it's views on.
And that's where it starts to fall apart, because one man has to be able to say what is right, and authorize that. And he will have to have a prominent house so everyone knows where to find him, and since he already has the house why doesn't he get the best food too? After all he's the boss so why shouldn't he?
Communism is a whole bunch of "if's" ands "buts" but if you study it you will know it's not going to happen, sort of makes you wonder why intellectuals weren't treated very well by Communist revolutionaries.
It is unstable as a system in and of itself.
Which is why I advocate some degree of propaganda and brainwashing to facilitate it.
Ultimately it requires everyone to agree on something, which is damn near impossible for humans to do, unless you could find a way of doing it, it's not going to happen.
[QUOTE=Chippy]How do you figure there would be no "Insanely hard" jobs.[/QUOTE]
I've found in my experience that if enough people are working one the same thing, and performing equally, the more people who join that work group the less work an individual would perform. The job itself would not become any easier, but the work load would.
The only problem with communism is that people are greedy without greed communism would flourish.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Monster bump" - Gurant))[/highlight]
In Communism everyone is equal, but the Government is just more equal than others.
If only wakka was here :frown:
[QUOTE=Dark Kite;6794225]I've heard a bit of Capitalist mutterings about the integrity of Communism. Something to the effect of, "being a bum pays just as well as being a doctor or a lawyer" I find these views very misinformed. First of all, bums only get what money people give to them, there is no wage for begging. Second, to get to the title of this thread, the No.1 purpose of Communism is to get the job done. [B]If all jobs are equal, everyone will be just as willing to do the job. You don't have to feel bad for working as a checker at a grocery store compared to a doctor. The construction worker does not feel inadequate to the politician. There is a lack of undesirable jobs because you get the same thing from each occupation. It is a place where people are truly equal both in opportunities and in occupation, the sewage worker is equal to the military general. Just as it should be for a perfect world to work. There would be no malcontent due to jobs because they are all equally important and their holders would be treated equally.[/B][/QUOTE]
I have bolded the wrong, stupid, and insane parts of your post
oh wait that's basically all of it
oh wow 3 year bump, good job shadow angel you fucking asshole
[QUOTE=Shadow Angel;23033552]The only problem with communism is that people are greedy without greed communism would flourish.[/QUOTE]
I was thinking "Crikey another Communism thread", then I realised [B]3 year[/B] bump.
Quoted post is true, post below it describes the Personality Cults which have grown from 'communist' governments in the past. Corruption, that.
[QUOTE=elitehakor;23033621]If only wakka was here :frown:[/QUOTE]
:ussr:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPwMM2dNccE&feature=related[/media]
Lol at the end.
Capitalism is great. Being able to compete with others is great. Getting a chance to get to the top and be wealthy is great. Being a capitalist pig is great.
Communism sucks. Everyone is the same, everything is the same, no competition. Man is a competitive, dominant animal. Don't cheat yourself.
Why would anyone spend 8 years of medical school when they can walk into a grocery store and get paid a similar wage? Why would anyone risk investments to expand production when there is no further profit to be made? If everything was free, and jobs were always available, some jobs that society needs, the ones that nobody wants to do, would not find people that want to do them for a living.
No reward -> no risk -> no investments -> no growth -> fewer jobs -> less wealth to spread around.
You can't rely on the compassion of human beings to run a society. If I lived in a communist society, I would work 6 hours a day, 5 days a week at exactly whatever job I wanted, regardless of whether people even needed me to do what I was doing.
The only way you could make this work, is a strong central government. This government would have to ban new jobs where they are full, and force people into jobs that nobody wants to do. Employers would have little or no control over who they hire, and there would be a lot of bums in the workplace getting only the minimum amount of required work done. We would essentially lose our free will in society.
[QUOTE=Dark Kite;6794225]The sewage worker is equal to the military general. Just as it should be for a perfect world to work. There would be no malcontent due to jobs because they are all equally important and their holders would be treated equally.[/QUOTE]
There is a reason why cleaning sewers is less payed than being a General. (Hint, supply and demand).
Communism is the worst idea ever conceived by man, it goes against every economic principle. It sucks, hard.
I'm majoring in economics by the way, it shocks me how people still believe in communism, in one form or another.
After you study the subject, when people talk about it it's like hearing somebody saying that the Earth is flat, or hollow, or that the thunders are made by Thor. It is that stupid.
[QUOTE=Soul-Chicken;23033606]In Communism everyone is equal, but the Government is just more equal than others.[/QUOTE]
Thats failed communism.
But capitalism works so much better.
Communism doesn't work, History has proven this.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Communism;23034720]But capitalism works so much better.[/QUOTE]
The day communism betrayed itself.
[QUOTE=radioactive;23034728]Communism doesn't work, History has proven this.[/QUOTE]
anything can work, if done in a way that it could work. The reason why communism did't work in the USSR is that the government was corrupt and got greedy, this led to the ultimate downfall of the USSR. It also put a bad face on communism. Communism is truly fair, because everybody is treated equally, and everybody has everything they need in a country.
You can't just say that the USSR failed on communism, but that the system would still be able to work somewhere else. Pretty much every country ruled by a communist party became a nightmare for human rights and stuff like that. For example the whole former Eastern bloc, Vietnam, Cambodia, China, North Korea, Albania... Yugoslavia was maybe a little more western, but it fell into a bloody civil war.
Am I the only person to realise that you've just been posting in a three year old thread?
The only way communism will work is if the whole world becomes communist. For instance, when Russia was communist on it's own, somebody didn't like it and there was war. With everyone being communist, there's nothing to dispute about other than religion! The thing is getting there is the [I]very[/I] hard part.
[QUOTE=evlbzltyr;23035015]Am I the only person to realise that you've just been posting in a three year old thread?[/QUOTE]
Meh, it's still a good topic.
[QUOTE=evlbzltyr;23035015]Am I the only person to realise that you've just been posting in a three year old thread?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I was just about to post something, and then I was just about to post "Holy shit Chris0132 is back!" and then I looked at the date of the post :saddowns:
People are failing to realise that in true Communism there aren't wages. A salary is a monetary reward for doing your job. In true Communism there is no need for money because people work for their collective benefits so there is no need for a wage so the idea of it being equal wages is as worthless as the money would be. People work to provide for others and in return others work for the benefit of them.
Communism only works in small groups.
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