I passively know [I]some [/I]stuff about Israel.
I know they're heavily armed, have nuclear capabilities, and tend to retaliate to Palestinian attacks to a disproportionate level. I know that Israel is the post WW2 result of first-world nations essentially stealing the Palestinian's land to create a Jewish haven that included Abrahamic "holy lands".
But that's pretty much all I know.
I'm aware that people on Facepunch and Liberals in general are pretty against Israel, but I'd like to know if the reasons I've stated are the only ones. Personally, being an atheist, whoever ends up controlling that land is a non-issue to me, but it does sound like Western civilization pretty much took sides in a religious war, and I think that's stupid. The only thing that makes me not desire a Palestinian victory is the fact that a significant portion of the world's Jews lives in Israel now, and I'm no fan of the genocide that might result, especially given Israel isn't exactly surrounded by friends if a mass exodus became necessary. Plus, however right they are to reclaim their land, I'd rather not give a potential theocracy nukes that would undoubtedly be left in the Israeli silos.
But that's all hypothetical. I'm concerned with why you folks here take whichever side you do, and whether your reasons stretch beyond the basics I listed.
In advance, I thank you :)
I was expecting a Seinfeld joke/impression with the title
it's hypocritical to demand sympathy because of the atrocity which was the holocaust, use that as a leverage/bargaining tool and then commit human rights abuses on other nations/peoples, even if they hate you (because you pretty much evicted them from their land, and still do).
In short.
and, y'know, Israel wants a holy war with Iran but needs to to drag the U.S in first and what not.
The only thing i know besides what OP mentioned is that they have proven to be a worthy nation by fending off invaders one of which was Egypt. They are armed to the teeth because noone wants them there.
[QUOTE=Keeshond v2;34540694]it's hypocritical to demand sympathy because of the atrocity which was the holocaust, use that as a leverage/bargaining tool and then commit human rights abuses on other nations/peoples, even if they hate you (because you pretty much evicted them from their land, and still do).
In short.
and, y'know, Israel wants a holy war with Iran but needs to to drag the U.S in first and what not.[/QUOTE]
When did Israel ever use the holocaust as a bargaining tool?
[QUOTE=Keeshond v2;34540694]it's hypocritical to demand sympathy because of the atrocity which was the holocaust, use that as a leverage/bargaining tool and then commit human rights abuses on other nations/peoples, even if they hate you (because you pretty much evicted them from their land, and still do).
In short.
and, y'know, Israel wants a [b]holy war[/b] with Iran but needs to to drag the U.S in first and what not.[/QUOTE]
No
I feel sorry for Israel. It's surrounded by enemies, where weapons smugglers are trying to ship in weapons to Gaza.
Yes, the civilians in Gaza have a horrible time living there, but Hamas occupied the place, and started firing missiles into Israeli land. Hamas just got such hate against Israel, it decided to send missiles at one of their own schools just to blame Israel for it.
I don't have the exact source on the last one, but I'm pretty sure it was on NBC or BBC.
[QUOTE=Keeshond v2;34540694]it's hypocritical to demand sympathy because of the atrocity which was the holocaust, use that as a leverage/bargaining tool and then commit human rights abuses on other nations/peoples, even if they hate you (because you pretty much evicted them from their land, and still do).
In short.
and, y'know, Israel wants a holy war with Iran but needs to to drag the U.S in first and what not.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=psych0;34541480]When did Israel ever use the holocaust as a bargaining tool?[/QUOTE]
That's what I'm thinking.
I sort of feel like the powers at hand after WW2 (England, US, France, the UN) just dropped them off there and said good luck.
Which isn't really fair. For either side. It's sort of a shitty situation all around.
Israel is certainly not such a victim some of you make it out to be.
hopefully starpluck wont notice this thread..
[QUOTE=Falchion;34544215]Israel is certainly not such a victim some of you make it out to be.[/QUOTE]
I am not going to say i think it's good what Israel has done, but they haven't had it easy.
Israel is one of the biggest dick countries on this earth but nothing can be done because they're buddies with the US.
[QUOTE=Orkel;34544648]Israel is one of the biggest dick countries on this earth but nothing can be done because they're buddies with the US.[/QUOTE]
If Israel was peaceful and non militaristic, it would have been wiped off the map.
[QUOTE=Orkel;34544648]Israel is one of the biggest dick countries on this earth but nothing can be done because they're buddies with the US.[/QUOTE]
Why are we allies with Israel anyway?
[QUOTE=.FLAP.JACK.DAN.;34544933]Why are we allies with Israel anyway?[/QUOTE]
They're the only country in the middle-east who truly [B]wants[/B] US there.
It is a necessary backup bridgehead for US "interests" in the region.
Also from what I understand they have quite some lobbyist power in the american govenrment.
[QUOTE=Falchion;34545346]They're the only country in the middle-east who truly [B]wants[/B] US there. [/QUOTE]
Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Georgia, etc.
There's actually a lot of countries that want the U.S. there to keep bigger, badder countries in the region from taking them over.
[QUOTE=Sanitizer;34544917]If Israel was peaceful and non militaristic, it would have been wiped off the map.[/QUOTE]
They don't have to poke and prod at every other enemy CONSTANTLY.
A lot of people on Facepunch like to think they know something about international politics and are unbiased. In reality, most of what you'll find here is the inverse of the thoughtless bias on the pro-Israeli side (it turns out being on the internet doesn't instantly make you an enlightened baddass as many on gaming forums seem to think). Asking a question about Israel on Facepunch is like walking into the Republican Convention and asking why Israel is awesome. All you're bound to receive are blind, bandwagoning responses.
The US gets involved so it can have an ally in the Middle East. We aren't well liked in the region if you weren't aware..
[QUOTE=huntskikbut;34545820]A lot of people on Facepunch like to think they know something about international politics and are unbiased. In reality, most of what you'll find here is the inverse of the thoughtless bias on the pro-Israeli side (it turns out being on the internet doesn't instantly make you an enlightened baddass as many on gaming forums seem to think). Asking a question about Israel on Facepunch is like walking into the Republican Convention and asking why Israel is awesome. All you're bound to receive are blind, bandwagoning responses.[/QUOTE]
That means we should never ask anything on any forum ever because there will always be some form of bias.
[QUOTE=doomkiwi;34545857]That means we should never ask anything on any forum ever because there will always be some form of bias.[/QUOTE]
No, I never said he shouldn't ask. He should just expect to get some rather biased answers and should do independent research before he forms his views on the matter.
[QUOTE=D3TBS;34540635]I was expecting a Seinfeld joke/impression with the title[/QUOTE]
I pretty much expected this:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NeqZOce1fE[/media]
They're a bunch of German Jews and every Jew from across the world stuck in a Prussia-esque state right in their ancestral homeland of the middle east. They revolted against the Romans 2000 years ago and got squashed and scattered around the world. Only now they're back and the Italians are too busy mating with each other and eating pizza. Only now the people they're oppressing (Palestinians) haven't interbred with other populations and are probably more closely related to their ancestors then they are. Plus they lobby the American DoD to provide funding so that they aren't absorbed by the numerous pissed off other Mideastern states that surround and hate the Israelis for existing out of xenophobia and ignorant racism. And the fact that they just showed up and took the land away from the Palestinians. Most people in the US could care less about Israel, but then again they are more friendly than Syria or Egypt to us so we kinda like them. Frankly I think they need to find a 2 state solution but that's just me - the Israelis would disagree.
They ask our government for expensive stuff like submarines and we have to give it to them, because of Nazi Germany
Israel and Palestine are both pretty bad. Palestinians do tend to use more..."brutal" tactics such as suicide bombs, which end up killing ironically more innocent people than Israeli soliders, while Israel tends to use computer guided rockets which end up killing innocents, but not nearly as much.
Basically, in as unbiased as I can put it:
After WWII it was decided that Jewish people needed their own land and that all of the problems they had would be solved by giving them some shitty land in the middle of the desert. Everyone was fine with it because they were like, "Meh, stupid Jews won't be able to make use of this land anyway." Well, everyone was wrong. They turned it into a productive country. Fast forward a bit, and now Palestinians are claiming that they, "Own" Israel and that it's an illegal country, etc. etc. The land they supposedly didn't even want before, they now want. Some people think it's for that reason, others think it's over religion, etc. etc.
Either way, Jews and Muslims are going at it, the U.N. backs Israel, Palestine wants to be recognized as a country, etc. The Middle East will never be at peace because you've got too many groups of people going after too much.
[QUOTE=Cl0cK;34546332]I pretty much expected this:[/QUOTE]
Basically the best show ever made.
That last scene where he's unsure to choose between Israel's and Palestine's side is a pretty clever too.
Israel is virtually our only ally in the Middle East.
In addition the IDF are incredibly badass.
[img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Dm4Xx59f6NM/S74zAyViiYI/AAAAAAAAEcg/js7o4WdKdfM/s1600/idfdg2.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=CrispexOps;34548893]Israel and Palestine are both pretty bad. Palestinians do tend to use more..."brutal" tactics such as suicide bombs, which end up killing ironically more innocent people than Israeli soliders, while Israel tends to use computer guided rockets which end up killing innocents, but not nearly as much.
Basically, in as unbiased as I can put it:
After WWII it was decided that Jewish people needed their own land and that all of the problems they had would be solved by giving them some shitty land in the middle of the desert. Everyone was fine with it because they were like, "Meh, stupid Jews won't be able to make use of this land anyway." Well, everyone was wrong. They turned it into a productive country. Fast forward a bit, and now Palestinians are claiming that they, "Own" Israel and that it's an illegal country, etc. etc. The land they supposedly didn't even want before, they now want. Some people think it's for that reason, others think it's over religion, etc. etc.
Either way, Jews and Muslims are going at it, the U.N. backs Israel, Palestine wants to be recognized as a country, etc. The Middle East will never be at peace because you've got too many groups of people going after too much.[/QUOTE]
You could argue that a lot of the soldiers are innocent too, as they are conscripted.
[QUOTE=tommyc225;34550700]You could argue that a lot of the soldiers are innocent too, as they are conscripted.[/QUOTE]
Israeli Conscripts are rarely put in active combat roles.
Usually they use conscripts to patrol streets and guard roads for three years before their time is up. It's more or a readiness thing, so if they're ever invaded or attacked they have a huge portion of the civilian population with formal military training already.
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