Family of Holocaust Survivor Ordered to Return 3,200 Year-Old German Artifact - Polidicks

[quote][img]http://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/_nenmmOg8SnWnxqNWIuo6g--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTMxMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/gma/Reuters/nc_gold_assyrian_tablet_ll_120601_wmain.jpg[/img] [b]A Brooklyn court has ordered the family of a Holocaust survivor to return a 3,200-year-old artifact to a German museum.[/b] [b]The Assyrian artifact is a golden tablet about the size of a passport photo that was looted from the Vorderasiatisches Museum in Berlin during World War II, according to court papers.[/b] [b]The tablet was discovered in 1913 by a group of German archeologists in Iraq, court papers read. It was placed in the Berlin museum in 1926, but when an inventory was conducted in 1939, the tablet was missing. The looter has been pegged as Auschwitz survivor Riven Flamenbaum.[/b] "He was at Auschwitz for a period of almost five years," Flamenbaum's daughter, Hannah Segal, told ABC News. "The Germans put him into forced labor and he walked out of there by some miracle. "The tablet represented his ability to survive," she said. "It represented a dark period in my parents' lives and lives of Jewish people." Flamenbaum left Auschwitz in 1945, when he was sent to a camp in Germany. [b]It was not clear how he obtained the tablet, but when he and his wife immigrated to the United States four years later, the tablet was one of his most prized possessions.[/b] [b]"This was never something that was going to make him rich or he was going to sell," said Segal. "It was a memento, a legacy. I never knew a grandfather, aunt, uncle or cousin. No family. The tablet is our legacy."[/b] [b]When Flamenbaum died in 2003, his children found the golden square in his estate.[/b] The museum sued for its return in 2010, but a Nassau County Surrogate Court judge ruled in favor of the Flamenbaum family, saying the museum never reported the tablet as stolen. "The museum sat on their rights for 60 years and now they say they're entitled to it," Segal said. [b]A recent appellate court ruling reversed the Nassau County decision, ordering the tablet to be returned.[/b] The family's attorney, Seth Presser, said most similar cases involve a Holocaust victim trying to reclaim stolen property taken by the Nazis, not a museum going after a survivor. [b]"The time frame is a huge factor, as is the emotion of the case," Presser said. "This tablet was one of the first things he had in his hands when he came to this country. He raised three children. He started a new life here, and now they're being chased down by his past."[/b] But attorney Raymond Dowd said otherwise. Dowd, who represented the museum and has served family members of Holocaust survivors in the past, said having the tablet returned to Germany is a "victory for the museums of the world." "This a public treasure for scholars of the world," Dowd said. "It's a rare artifact, and the world scholars deserve to study it. It doesn't belong in private hands."[/quote] [url= http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/family-holocaust-survivor-ordered-return-artifact-110038470--abc-news-topstories.html]Source[/url] It's amazing the artifact is even still intact.

Personally agree with the court ruling. The fact it has an emotional attachment to it doesn't change anything really.

For what he went through, it is pretty harsh to make him return it.

I wonder what it says.

This shit does belong in a museum. Put it up against any sob story you will, that's the truth of the matter.

The historical value is too high for them to just keep it...

[quote]having the tablet returned to Germany is a "victory for the museums of the world."[/quote] Victory; ripping a tiny gold square from the cold dead hands of a holocaust survivor.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/czACR.jpg[/img]

it is a valuable artifact that was stolen. just because he was emotionally connected to it doesn't make it any less valuable to the people it originally belonged to, nor does it make whatever we could learn from studying it just go away. but that's not to say we should take it away from them now that they're connected to it; a good compromise would be to study it until everything about it is known, then to hand it back. since the person who original had it (and presumably looted it) is dead, taking it away from them isn't going to help matters.

While I agree that this belongs in the museum, the spokesman sounds like a total cunt "a total victory"? what.

it look like a sheet of paper to me.

Althought it's not like the private holders are evil, [img]http://i.qkme.me/5eic.jpg[/img] but not in germany, that's the very place the man tried to keep it from by bringing it to America.

[QUOTE=geoface;36182395]i think it belongs in a museum, but not in germany, that's the very place the man tried to keep it from by bringing it to America[/QUOTE] The war ended 67 years ago.

[QUOTE=geoface;36182395]i think it belongs in a museum, but not in germany, that's the very place the man tried to keep it from by bringing it to America[/QUOTE] By that logic it should be sent to Iraq, since that's where archaeologists found it.

It belongs in a museum !!!

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;36182369]Victory; ripping a tiny gold square from the cold dead hands of a holocaust survivor.[/QUOTE] I can't help but think there may be some bias in what you're saying

[QUOTE=Van-man;36182411]By that logic it should be sent to Iraq, since that's where archaeologists found it.[/QUOTE] that would actually make alot more sense since it is part of the history of iraq, but that would never happen because everyone hates them. It's like tutankhamun being kept in america.

[QUOTE=Nexus435;36182309]For what he went through, it is pretty harsh to make him return it.[/QUOTE] Why? Just because he went through the Holocaust doesn't make him exempt from the law.

A stolen item is still a stolen it. I'm ok with it being returned.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;36182369]Victory; ripping a tiny gold square from the cold dead hands of a holocaust survivor.[/QUOTE] So? It's tragic that he had to undergo the holocaust but that doesn't change anything. In the same way as german museums had to return a large number of historical war loot. A wrong does not make another wrong right. On top of that - from the wording of the article [quote] [B]When Flamenbaum died in 2003, his children found the golden square in his estate.[/quote] [/B]I get the impression the children had no direct connection to the tablet. They probably found the piece of gold and got it apraised to know how much it would cost. And from there on the museum got wind of it.

Not to get the whole Zion discussion in this thread, but if we're talking time frames, why do we judge old-as-shit Nazis? It's not like this artifact will die in a few years either.

[QUOTE=geoface;36182395]Althought it's not like the private holders are evil, [img]http://i.qkme.me/5eic.jpg[/img] but not in germany, that's the very place the man tried to keep it from by bringing it to America.[/QUOTE] The only thing modern Germany has in common with the Germany he fled is geography.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;36182492]Not to get the whole Zion discussion in this thread, but if we're talking time frames, why do we judge old-as-shit Nazis? It's not like this artifact will die in a few years either.[/QUOTE] They are harmless now, and have not long left to live anyways.

The Court said "Return the slab!" The guy said "What's your offer!?" The court replied " Return the slab or go to jail!"

[QUOTE=BCell;36182572]The Court said "Return the slab!" The guy said "What's your offer!?" The court replied " Return the slab or go to jail!"[/QUOTE] Seems to be a civil matter so more like >Return the Slab or pay a massive fine in damages and still return the slab >>What if I won't. In that case you get confiscations.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;36182543]They are harmless now, and have not long left to live anyways.[/QUOTE] That's what I'm saying. It's hypocracy to talk timeframes when you're not consisted. Germany really has a guilt problem, and it shows. Just look at Günther Grass - he created an outrage with some relevant (if somewhat harsh) critique.

[QUOTE=BCell;36182572]The Court said "Return the slab!" The guy said "What's your offer!?" The court replied " Return the slab or go to jail!"[/QUOTE] Because you should pay to get what was stolen from you?

[QUOTE=Nexus435;36182309]For what he went through, it is pretty harsh to make him return it.[/QUOTE] I have a deep emotional attachment to the dead-sea scrolls. are they mine yet!?

Wonder how much they'd get for that on ebay?

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;36182594]That's what I'm saying. It's hypocracy to talk timeframes when you're not consisted. Germany really has a guilt problem, and it shows. Just look at Günther Grass - he created an outrage with some relevant (if somewhat harsh) critique.[/QUOTE] Blame it on western media to be honest. The absolutely sheer amount of deamonisations germans get to this day from ww2. Most movies depict them as absolute monsters or utterly ruthless at best. And there's absolutely massive amounts of it everyhwere. Now imagine that you know your grandfather was in there at that time and you're constantly reminded of it. In a lot of ways similar to what sometimes happens in the US where whites are constantly reminded how they were slavers and similar. It creates a certain guilt complex that's really hard to get past.