Wii U: PAL backwards compatibility doesn’t upscale to HD
32 replies, posted
[QUOTE][I]Wii U backwards compatibility functions have been thoroughly tested by the boffins at Digital Foundry. While the site champions Nintendo’s handling of classic Wii games, it has found that while NTSC titles upscale to HD resolution, PAL games will not. Get their findings below.[/I][IMG]http://images.vg247.com/current//2012/10/Wii.jpg[/IMG]
As part of a detailed analysis into the matter on [URL="http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-wii-u-backwards-compatibility-analysis"]Eurogamer,[/URL] Digital Foundry reports that when playing original Wii games, the Wii U console will revert to Wii mode, complete with classic menus and options.
However, the site explained, “Important AV options are omitted from the Wii menu, with the PAL console unable to upscale to HD resolutions or run in progressive scan over component – an issue that doesn’t seem to impact NTSC hardware.”
The report added, “The results are intriguing. On a PAL unit, where 480p and PAL60 were supported in the original games, Wii U automatically opts for this set-up on HDMI – whether the user wants it or not.
“While we think it’s a logical way to proceed, the fact is that some Wii gamers prefer to utilise 576i. PAL-optimised titles may take a hit to frame-rate, but they make up for it with around 17 per cent more resolution.
“What is clear is that the choices users had on their older hardware have been taken away from them on Wii U when there’s absolutely no reason that the software couldn’t have been designed to keep everyone happy.”
So it seems that PAL games are being locked into a particular resolution, regardless of options available within the original title. The report also discusses the long and drawn out process of transferring data over from your original Wii to Wii U.
“Other back-compat issues surface when dealing with the Virtual Console. For starters, transferring purchases across from the Wii to the Wii U is a bizarrely involved procedure.
“The process involves downloading the transfer tool on both your Wii U and the old Wii. You then have to prepare the SD card (with at least 512MB of space on it) on the Wii U and then insert it into the old console. The transfer tool then copies all of your data (Miis, purchase history, downloads, save games) to the SD card.
“You then have to put it back in the Wii U and copy all of the data back over. Weirdly, you need to have internet access in order to complete the process.
“One of our colleagues was hugely frustrated by always failing at the last stage of this drawn-out operation, with the Wii U itself offering no explanation whatsoever for what the issue may have been, and network issues turned out to be the problem.
“Also a little irritating is that despite shipping a console with 32GB of flash, onboard Wii storage limits are the same palty 512MB we had to put up with on the original hardware.”
Sounds like a nightmare doesn’t it? Have you dabbled in either of these issues? Let us know what you think below.[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://www.vg247.com/2012/12/05/wii-u-pal-backwards-compatibility-doesnt-upscale-to-hd/"]Source[/URL]
In a nutshell, for no reason at all [SUB][SUB](There seriously is [B]NO [/B]reason at all or to think of why it was removed)[/SUB][/SUB] the PAL version of the Wii U doesn't upscale original Wii games to 1080p/720p while the NTSC does
That's really... Stupid.
Why didn't they make the console actually universal to PAL and NTSC?
What's the difference between NTSC and PAL? I don't understand why it wouldn't upscale or are they just fucking over all the not-Americans?
[QUOTE=Daniel M;38723974]What's the difference between NTSC and PAL? I don't understand why it wouldn't upscale or are they just fucking over all the not-Americans?[/QUOTE]
The resolution is different but now since HD TVs came along it shouldn't matter anymore.
PAL = 720x576
NTSC = 720x480
[editline]6th December 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Amiga OS;38723985]Composite video refresh rate and resolution.[/QUOTE]
Shouldn't the resolution count as well?
Fucking racists, reminds me of the original xbox which can only do HD resolutions in NTSC modes
That is fucking ridiculous. Why don't they just unlock the WiiU?
I guess that still wouldn't fix the problem, why can't they just do the scaling on PAL systems? I mean it'd be nice to have it unlocked but then everyone would have to repurchase their PAL games from North America and that's not going to happen.
Could just be a bug, I'm sure they'll fix it since there's almost no difference between PAL and NTSC Wii games. Game loaders on the Wii even let you switch the modes.
Why do we even need regional consoles now that digital TVs are standard?
I'm not knowledgable in the subject.
Is the pal physically incapable of upscaling or are the ntsc and pal versions the same and it's a software thing that doesn't do upscaling?
[QUOTE=legolover122;38744085]I'm not knowledgable in the subject.
Is the pal physically incapable of upscaling or are the ntsc and pal versions the same and it's a software thing that doesn't do upscaling?[/QUOTE]
PAL and NTSC are certainly different, but there is literally [I]no[/I] reason nintendo didn't allow PAL-format upscaling
[QUOTE=legolover122;38744085]I'm not knowledgable in the subject.
Is the pal physically incapable of upscaling or are the ntsc and pal versions the same and it's a software thing that doesn't do upscaling?[/QUOTE]
It has zero to do with PAL / NTSC way of resolution or anything like that its just that the European models of the Wii U have the upscaling disabled.
[QUOTE=darth-veger;38744118]It has zero to do with PAL / NTSC way of resolution or anything like that its just that the European models of the Wii U have the upscaling disabled.[/QUOTE]
So I hope it's just an error then and they can fix it with an update or something.
I would love to play twilight princess and mario galaxy in upscaled resolutions.
For anyone wondering;
NTSC:
FPS of 60i (interlaced) or 30p (progressive) (60Hz)
486x~440 (4:3)
PAL:
FPS of 50i or 25p (50Hz)
576x~520 (4:3)
Keep in mind that stuff like this is becoming less important at a constant rate because of the phasing-out of analog television sets.
[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;38744188]For anyone wondering;
NTSC:
FPS of 60i (interlaced) or 30p (progressive) (60Hz)
486x~440 (4:3)
PAL:
FPS of 50i or 25p (50Hz)
576x~520 (4:3)
Keep in mind that stuff like this is becoming less important at a constant rate because of the phasing-out of analog television sets.[/QUOTE]
those resolutions are wrong
It's 720x576 for PAL and 720x480 for NTSC
wait hold up
the wii u NTSC upscales wii games to HD? i thought they said they weren't doing this
All Wii U's scale NTSC games to HD but not PAL games. It'd be a good reason for buying the Wii U, since the only other way you could play original Wii games in HD was to emulate
well i think it's just stretching the 480p image to 1080p, not actually re-rendering it like dolphin would be doing. that's what i've been finding from looking this up
[QUOTE=Trogdon;38778640]well i think it's just stretching the 480p image to 1080p, not actually re-rendering it like dolphin would be doing. that's what i've been finding from looking this up[/QUOTE]
The only thing it does is indeed putting it on a 1080p display instead of reverting the display to the original Wii resolution.
It only adds very slight changes in the Anti Aliasing in a few games like Mad World so only the text is better to read.
[t]http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/979/brawlfhd1.png[/t]
Brawl on Dolphin looks gorgeous.
it's unfortunate that it doesn't uprez, but that's okay with me i guess.
is there really an advantage of putting a 1080p display on instead of the original wii resolution? it doesn't seem like there is
[QUOTE=Trogdon;38778983]it's unfortunate that it doesn't uprez, but that's okay with me i guess.
is there really an advantage of putting a 1080p display on instead of the original wii resolution? it doesn't seem like there is[/QUOTE]
It help keeps aliasing down to a minimum and keeps the display running at its native resolution. It won't make old games look amazing as its still using the same textures, effects, and models, but it does help it look better.
Without upscaling, its exactly like taking your 1080p computer monitor, and setting the resolution on your games to 640 x 480.
[QUOTE=Trogdon;38778983]it's unfortunate that it doesn't uprez, but that's okay with me i guess.
is there really an advantage of putting a 1080p display on instead of the original wii resolution? it doesn't seem like there is[/QUOTE]
The graphics are more blurry and and it looks thick. Or well at least at my Wii U VS Wii comparison.
The tv will just have to do the up scaling
I'm pretty sure this can easily be fixed..
[QUOTE=The Baconator;38779403]The tv will just have to do the up scaling[/QUOTE]
My TV has a processor that does some upscaling to some degree, some notable difference in Mario Galaxy when i turn it off or on :v:
[QUOTE=darth-veger;38779423]My TV has a processor that does some upscaling to some degree, some notable difference in Mario Galaxy when i turn it off or on :v:[/QUOTE]
As long as you are not seeing the image with a massive black border, every TV does upscaling. This is a non-issue. [B]The games are not rendered in HD anyway [/B]so whether the Wii or the TV does the scaling is only important in matters of the method used to upscale and 90% of the users don't care for that.
Gosh, people.
[QUOTE=digigamer17;38723987]The resolution is different but now since HD TVs came along it shouldn't matter anymore.
PAL = 720x576
NTSC = 720x480
[editline]6th December 2012[/editline]
Shouldn't the resolution count as well?[/QUOTE]
It's also framerate. 29.970fps versus 25. but I believe PAL has a different color space matrix. But in the digital world, I don't think it matters.
[QUOTE=Brt5470;38781526]But in the digital world, I don't think it matters.[/QUOTE]
It doesn't.
[QUOTE=Brt5470;38781526]It's also framerate. 29.970fps versus 25. but I believe PAL has a different color space matrix. But in the digital world, I don't think it matters.[/QUOTE]
NTSC and PAL have different encoding schemes, different color spaces, different frame rates and different resolutions. If you want to convert either format into a different format, you have to write a converter specifically for each format to each other format. You could write an all encompassing converter for both formats, but it would take much longer and be more complex.
It sounds like Nintendo opted to just make an NTSC format converter and not bother with PAL.
[QUOTE=Brt5470;38781526]It's also framerate. 29.970fps versus 25. but I believe PAL has a different color space matrix. But in the digital world, I don't think it matters.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, to output via HDMI they're already doing colour conversions (Assuming they actually are, I'd say a majority are just writing raw RGB values) and rendering at a framerate HDMI allows for. Any differences between NTSC and PAL versions are moot with an all digital output (If there ever were any differences, it's not like a tape where it's set in stone)
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