21 kids suing US gov over climate change denial; Trump to be the defendant come January 20th
125 replies, posted
[quote]President-elect Donald Trump is likely to find himself the subject of a federal court case next year. The subject: climate change. And the plaintiffs: 21 children who want to ensure they have the right to a livable atmosphere.
A federal judge on Thursday denied the federal government's motion to dismiss the "climate kids" case, meaning their lawsuit over climate change will go to trial in federal court in Oregon, likely next year.
[B]The kid plaintiffs, ages 9 to 20, allege the federal government is doing far too little to keep dangerous global warming in check, and is actually creating warming by leasing federal property for fossil fuel extraction.[/B]
The basic idea is that politicians have failed to fix the climate crisis.
So the courts need to force them to do so.
The kids and their attorneys from Our Children's Trust initially filed this case against the Obama administration. But Our Children's Trust chief legal counsel, Julia Olson,[B] told me on Thursday that Trump will automatically become a named defendant when he assumes the presidency on January 20.[/B]
"President-elect Donald Trump has asserted he will dismantle many of the executive actions taken by the Obama administration," she said in an email. "Because President Obama implemented many climate change policies through executive action, Trump will have the power to water down President Obama's climate change regulations and ignore the United States' commitments under last year's Paris climate agreement. Such steps will be disastrous for our country. These actions will place the youth of America, as well as future generations, at irreversible, severe risk to the most devastating consequences of global warming.
"Thus, it will be up to our courts, using the Constitution, to protect our posterity."
[B]The group will attempt to settle the case before Trump takes office, she said.[/B][/quote]
[url]http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/10/opinions/sutter-trump-climate-kids/[/url]
Ill pay god knows how much money to watch this happen.
I'm feeling a mixture of things right now, I have a little bit of faith humanity restored to see kids this informed and this involved but at the same time sad at the fact that kids are so concerned for their future their taking legal action to try to do something about it and even sadder when they probably won't be taken seriously.
i bet they will settle
This will go nowhere.
Do they have any legal case at all?
Well you can't sue the president, so good luck getting that through court in a timely fashion
I can't believe that we have gotten to the stage where we are resorting to Legal action to try and save our planet.
This is saddening as fuck.
[QUOTE=Xonax;51394781]I can't believe that we have gotten to the stage where we are resorting to Legal action to try and save our planet.
This is saddening as fuck.[/QUOTE]
well damaging oil pipelines wasn't doing the trick somehow
Im all for fixing the environment, but-
[quote]The kid plaintiffs, [b]ages 9 to 20[/b][/quote]
Yeah that doesnt sound sketchy at all.
[QUOTE=Xonax;51394781]I can't believe that we have gotten to the stage where we are resorting to Legal action to try and save our planet.
This is saddening as fuck.[/QUOTE]
I can't believe we have gotten to the stage of fucking [B][I]kids[/I][/B] resorting in legal action.
tell you what though this is making more spotlight than any of the argument papers ive had to write on this ordeal just to get a grade
Can we also make it televised
[QUOTE=TheTalon;51394738]Well you can't sue the president, so good luck getting that through court in a timely fashion[/QUOTE]
They're not suing the President directly here.. you know that right
Federal government includes congress so that's nice cause they're where real change would happen to fight climate change.
I don't see how they think this is going to work.
Climate change will continue to occur regardless of whatever humanity as a whole does. Its part of the natural order of things that change happens.
I'm all for minimizing pollution. But when this ends up being another crying "wolf" incident it will hamper the efforts to minimize pollution.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;51394811]Im all for fixing the environment, but-
Yeah that doesnt sound sketchy at all.[/QUOTE]
Considering they're attempting to settle too I really doubt the environment is all they care about.
Why do I feel like most of the kids don't really care and are just being used for publicity
[QUOTE=Kigen;51394953]I don't see how they think this is going to work.
[B]Climate change will continue to occur regardless of whatever humanity as a whole does.[/B] Its part of the natural order of things that change happens.
I'm all for minimizing pollution. But when this ends up being another crying "wolf" incident it will hamper the efforts to minimize pollution.[/QUOTE]
:suicide:
Something similar worked in the UK, and ended up with the supreme court telling the government to get it together on NOX emissions.
[QUOTE=Kigen;51394953]I don't see how they think this is going to work.
[B]Climate change will continue to occur regardless of whatever humanity as a whole does. Its part of the natural order of things that change happens.
[/B]
I'm all for minimizing pollution. But when this ends up being another crying "wolf" incident it will hamper the efforts to minimize pollution.[/QUOTE]Ok this arguemnt has always been dumb because:
nobody has every denied that the Earth's climate changes periodically in drastic ways throughout it's history
when people say climate change they mean it in the sense that the climate will change in a way that is detrimental to humans (as well as other creatures), this type of climate change is very very likely to be caused (or at least drastically accelerated) by humans.
[QUOTE=Kigen;51394953]I don't see how they think this is going to work.
Climate change will continue to occur regardless of whatever humanity as a whole does. Its part of the natural order of things that change happens.
I'm all for minimizing pollution. But when this ends up being another crying "wolf" incident it will hamper the efforts to minimize pollution.[/QUOTE]
To say that the climate doesn't gradually shift its average temperature and atmosphere composition over time is false. It takes a very, very, very long time though. However since the start of the industrial revolution, which is around 1900, we've managed to accelerate and exaggerate this goddamn proces by a hundred times in just a little over 100 years to the point that we're almost causing less resistant species to die out because they aren't built for all the goddamn co2 we're pumping into the atmosphere at such a steady rate. So it's definitely not a natural process and I wish people didn't try to make the problem seem less bad than it really is because we need things to change NOW. We cannot fuck around for 4 more years. We CAN'T. We're out of time to allow ourselves that.
[QUOTE=Kigen;51394953]I don't see how they think this is going to work.
Climate change will continue to occur regardless of whatever humanity as a whole does. Its part of the natural order of things that change happens.
I'm all for minimizing pollution. But when this ends up being another crying "wolf" incident it will hamper the efforts to minimize pollution.[/QUOTE]
Of course it will continue to occur. Howevever, this
[IMG]https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2016-07/ghgconc2000-large.jpg[/IMG]
can hardly be called part of the natural order
[QUOTE=gokiyono;51395101]Of course it will continue to occur. Howevever, this
can hardly be called part of the natural order[/QUOTE]
I seem to remember pointing out that pollution is bad and we should work to solve it. But of course what I dispute is how much humanity really has had an effect on climate change.
Why don't we work with something we seem to agree with, and that is pollution is bad.
[editline]19th November 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Morgen;51394988]:suicide:
Something similar worked in the UK, and ended up with the supreme court telling the government to get it together on NOX emissions.[/QUOTE]
It depends if there is a ratified treaty that they can point to. But ultimately, the government can pull out of treaties if it so desires. So that is a shaky foundation at best.
[QUOTE=Kigen;51395153]I seem to remember pointing out that pollution is bad and we should work to solve it. But of course what I dispute is how much humanity really has had an effect on climate change.
Why don't we work with something we seem to agree with, and that is pollution is bad.[/QUOTE]
That's one massive fucking waste of time spent on just semantics and trying to tapdance around idiots in denial.
The more we try to carefully avoid disagreements with overly specific crowds the more positive change is going to be delayed. Pollution [I]is[/I] part of global warming and trying to solve one issue while somehow ignoring the other is like trying to put out a fire without removing the stockpile of gasoline you left in the corner.
-snip- Fuck it, I don't want to go down this road. Another, "if you disagree your an idiot" type thing.
[QUOTE=Kigen;51395153]I seem to remember pointing out that pollution is bad and we should work to solve it. But of course what I dispute is how much humanity really has had an effect on climate change.
Why don't we work with something we seem to agree with, and that is pollution is bad.
[editline]19th November 2016[/editline]
It depends if there is a ratified treaty that they can point to. But ultimately, the government can pull out of treaties if it so desires. So that is a shaky foundation at best.[/QUOTE]
The effect of CO2 on temperature across earth's history is indisputable, and the massive spike in CO2 emissions by humans in indisputable, and the rate of CO2 unprecedented in its speed based on all geological evidence, so idk what room there is for alternate interpretations from "humans are causing an unprecedentedly fast rise in CO2 levels which must necessarily result in a massive increase in earth's temperature".
I mean are you like a geologist or a climate researcher or what
[editline]19th November 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kigen;51395178]-snip- Fuck it, I don't want to go down this road. Another, "if you disagree your an idiot" type thing.[/QUOTE]
No it's a "if you disagree here's the scientific consensus" type thing, if you can't come up with a rebuttal then nobody's going to take you seriously
[img]https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/earth_temperature_timeline.png[/img]
Yep that sure looks natural.
[QUOTE=Kigen;51395178]-snip- Fuck it, I don't want to go down this road. Another, "if you disagree your an idiot" type thing.[/QUOTE]
If you deny facts and ignore like 95% of all research that's been done on the matter, while also wanting us to tapdance around it, calling it something else as to not trigger any deniers, then yeah, you're being pretty dumb
[QUOTE=Kigen;51395178]-snip- Fuck it, I don't want to go down this road. Another, "if you disagree your an idiot" type thing.[/QUOTE]
Nobody is calling you an idiot because you want to believe differently. But we're trying to show you the proof that it's people that are causing this extreme change of the climate. Don't shut down for the facts, they're right there, and they cannot be argued with, as much as I'd hope otherwise because I love Earth, and I wish we didn't have this kind of terrible effect, but we do, and we need to do something about it before it's too late, and too late is approaching fast.
The effect humans have on pollution is pretty much non-negotiable. We have the specific numbers to show us how people negatively influence the amount of greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere. There's no point to be made in arguing how people have an effect on the atmosphere because the evidence is there, everywhere you look, at this point it's more or less set in stone. Trying to argue it is beating around the bush and accomplishes nothing.
It's a good thing that you're aware that pollution is a bad thing, but it's sadly not part of the natural order of things.
Maybe you'd like to hear that things aren't as terrible as people make it out to be? I mean, it's preferable to think that we're not as much of a negative influence... But that's preferring to believe a lie. We are capable of doing amazing things, but it seems that for every huge amazing thing we do, we do something equally large and negative to balance things out.
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