Italian court jails scientists for not predicting 2009 earthquake
39 replies, posted
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20025626[/url]
[quote=BBC News][B]Six Italian scientists and an ex-government official have been sentenced to six years in prison over the 2009 deadly earthquake in L'Aquila.[/B]
A regional court found them guilty of multiple manslaughter.
Prosecutors said the defendants gave a falsely reassuring statement before the quake, while the defence maintained there was no way to predict major quakes.
The 6.3 magnitude quake devastated the city and killed 309 people.
It took Judge Marco Billi slightly more than four hours to reach the verdict in the trial, which had begun in September 2011.
[B]'Alarming' case[/B]
The seven - all members of the National Commission for the Forecast and Prevention of Major Risks - were accused of having provided "inexact, incomplete and contradictory" information about the danger of the tremors felt ahead of 6 April 2009 quake, Italian media report.
In addition to their sentences, all have been barred from ever holding public office again, La Repubblica reports.
In the closing statement, the prosecution quoted one of its witnesses, whose father died in the earthquake.
It described how Guido Fioravanti had called his mother at about 11pm on the night of the earthquake - straight after the first tremor.
"I remember the fear in her voice. On other occasions they would have fled but that night, with my father, they told themselves what the risk commission had said. And they stayed."
[B]'Hasty sentence'[/B]
The judge also ordered the defendants to pay court costs and damages.
Lawyers have said that they will appeal against the sentence.
Reacting to the verdict against him, Bernardo De Bernardinis said: "I believe myself to be innocent before God and men."
"My life from tomorrow will change," the former vice-president of the Civil Protection Agency's technical department said, according to La Repubblica.
"But, if I am judged by all stages of the judicial process to be guilty, I will accept my responsibility."
One of the lawyers for the defence, Marcello Petrelli, described the sentence as "hasty" and "incomprehensible".
The case has alarmed many in the scientific community, who feel science itself has been put on trial.
Some scientists have warned that the case might set a damaging precedent, deterring experts from sharing their knowledge with the public for fear of being targeted in lawsuits, the BBC's Alan Johnston in Rome reports.
Earlier, more than 5,000 scientists signed an open letter to Italian President Giorgio Napolitano in support of the group in the dock.[/quote]
fucking what
What the fuck, they actually managed to find them guilty?
[quote]
The seven - all members of the National Commission for the Forecast and Prevention of Major Risks - were accused of having provided "inexact, incomplete and contradictory" information about the danger of the tremors felt ahead of 6 April 2009 quake, Italian media report.
In addition to their sentences, all have been barred from ever holding public office again, La Repubblica reports.
[/quote]
"inexact, incomplete and contradictory" covers our whole fucking knowledge of the world so far, good luck finding any other professional seismologists who are willing to work in Italy, fuckwits.
Italain justice sounds fucking batshit lately.
It seems extremely stupid to jail six scientists for not being able to predict a quake, but it is possible that they were either slacking or having bad readings.
I'm still with the scientists, though; you can't fucking approximate when anything is going to happen.
While this is all ridiculous, you all need to realise the case was never about the power of prediction - it was about what was interpreted to be an inadequate characterisation of the risks; of being misleadingly reassuring about the dangers that faced their city.
So calm down on the hysterics.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;38140122]While this is all ridiculous, you all need to realise the case was never about the power of prediction - it was about what was interpreted to be an inadequate characterisation of the risks; of being misleadingly reassuring about the dangers that faced their city.
So calm down on the hysterics.[/QUOTE]
It probably wasent really on purpose though, their readings might as well have shown it as a much weaker quake, you cant predict everything right
[QUOTE=Tobba;38140155]It probably wasent really on purpose though, their readings might as well have shown it as a much weaker quake[/QUOTE]
But they were the head of a commission set up to try to understand any potential risks.
They said there was no risk, and no action would be needed, even though the evidence was to the contrary.
As a result a load of people died.
Whether or not they need to be jailed or be guilty of manslaughter is another issue, but these guys really need their careers blunted for being terrible scientists.
I'm fairly sure their careeers would fuck themselves up after being that shit
They are LITERALLY blaming an "act of god"/natural force on humans. Sure they may not have been able to predict it, but you can't and won't always be accurate enough to be one step ahead of nature.
[QUOTE]In the closing statement, the prosecution quoted one of its witnesses, whose father died in the earthquake.
It described how Guido Fioravanti had called his mother at about 11pm on the night of the earthquake - straight after the first tremor.
"I remember the fear in her voice. On other occasions they would have fled but that night, with my father, they told themselves what the risk commission had said. And they stayed."[/QUOTE]
"I SAW THAT THERE EARTHQUAKE, TOOK MY PA'S LIFE IT DID AND THEM THERE SCIENTIST FOLK SAW THE WHOOOOOLE THIN AND DUN WENT TOLD NOBODY, MY PA'S DEAD CUZZA YOU SCI EEN TEESTS"
Seriously, they called a witness because his father died in an earthquake to go against the scientists?
This whole thing sounds like a really bad episode of Futurama or something.
[QUOTE=mysteryman;38140250]"I SAW THAT THERE EARTHQUAKE, TOOK MY PA'S LIFE IT DID AND THEM THERE SCIENTIST FOLK SAW THE WHOOOOOLE THIN AND DUN WENT TOLD NOBODY, MY PA'S DEAD CUZZA YOU SCI EEN TEESTS"
Seriously, they called a witness because his father died in an earthquake to go against the scientists?
This whole thing sounds like a really bad episode of Futurama or something.[/QUOTE]
The point of that was to show how the flawed report by the commission made people stay rather than evacuate, and ultimately died as a result.
surely this is not a good road to go down
Ban earthquakes
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You're going to jail for not predicting the Future is what I got after reading the article. What do they expect, for them to be right every time on everything in relation to nature?
[QUOTE=NoDachi;38140305]The point of that was to show how the flawed report by the commission made people stay rather than evacuate, and ultimately died as a result.[/QUOTE]
And it's still outrageous that the scientists are serving jailtime and a life time bar from ever working in their fields again.
Worst precedent.
Why don't we just fucking toss them into the stockades and throw crosses at them for being heretics for practicing science, while we're at it?
This shit is barbaric, at best.
uh I'd understand if it was somehow a conspiracy thing but it's [I]not[/I]. great going, Italy.
[QUOTE=mysteryman;38140651]And it's still outrageous that the scientists are serving jailtime and a life time bar from ever working in their fields again.[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah jailtime is mental.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;38140183]But they were the head of a commission set up to try to understand any potential risks.
They said there was no risk, and no action would be needed, even though the evidence was to the contrary.
As a result a load of people died.[/QUOTE]
Here's where I'd need to see proof. Proof that any one of those 309 people would still be alive if the commission had said "There could be a large earthquake on the way".
Hearsay, such as someone saying "I know my mom would have left the city" is not proof. She may have, she may not. Even if she had left the city she still may have died, in a car accident or something. I don't see how you can pin these deaths on the lack of a prediction.
What if all earthquake scientists just say right now "The world is on notice, a large earthquake can strike any time"? Does that cover it?
[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;38140834]Here's where I'd need to see proof. Proof that any one of those 309 people would still be alive if the commission had said "There could be a large earthquake on the way".[/QUOTE]
But its like a Fire Safety officer passing or condemning a nightclub before it accidentally burnt down killing 309 people.
He would be in serious shit if he said it was completely safe.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;38140871]But its like a Fire Safety officer passing or condemning a nightclub before it accidentally burnt down killing 309 people.
He would be in serious shit if he said it was completely safe.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't aware that earthquake prediction science was so advanced that scientists can say now when an earthquake will happen and how bad it'll be and what actions people should take to avoid being killed.
[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;38141349]I wasn't aware that earthquake prediction science was so advanced that scientists can say now when an earthquake will happen and how bad it'll be and what actions people should take to avoid being killed.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't aware that you're incapable of any reading comprehension, and didn't realise that this case has nothing to do with the powers of prediction.
It's the fact that they gave an all clear when the data they collected said there was a 2% chance of a severe earth quake.
[quote]It described how Guido Fioravanti had called his mother at about 11pm on the night of the earthquake - straight after the first tremor.[/quote]
Pathos powers go!
This is insane given what I read in the article overall. If they had been provably negligent in their duties then that would be one thing, but it seems that the readings they had simply didn't point towards anything major like this.
EDIT: Or that there was simply a small chance of it.
Kill all scientists
Kill all scientists
The smell of progress.
Yeah, we only tolerate those scientist witches as long as they protect us. They caused the earthquake, and should be burned at the stake.
Dachi is right here. Scientists don't need to be correct all the time, they hardly are. However, they should always state things within their certainty. If you're not completely certain then saying you are is negligent. I agree that they should be punished. Even the 'Defence' agreed they were wrong to say the people are completely safe.
Didn't ancient Chinese kings execute weather predictors and astronomers for not getting things right
[QUOTE=NoDachi;38141590]I wasn't aware that you're incapable of any reading comprehension, and didn't realise that this case has nothing to do with the powers of prediction.
It's the fact that they gave an all clear when the data they collected said there was a 2% chance of a severe earth quake.[/QUOTE]
a 2% chance of an earthquake is rather small
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