Sir Tim Hunt resigns from university role over girls comment - Polidicks

[QUOTE]A Nobel laureate has resigned from his position as honorary professor at a UK university after he made comments about the "trouble with girls" in science. University College London (UCL) said Sir Tim Hunt - a Royal Society fellow - had resigned from his position within its faculty of life sciences. He told a conference that women in labs "cry" when criticised and "fall in love" with male counterparts. He told the BBC he "did mean" the remarks but was "really sorry". A statement from the university read: "UCL can confirm that Sir Tim Hunt FRS has resigned from his position as honorary professor with the UCL faculty of life sciences following comments he made about women in science at the World Conference of Science Journalists on 9 June. "UCL was the first university in England to admit women students on equal terms to men, and the university believes that this outcome is compatible with our commitment to gender equality." Sir Tim, 72 - who was awarded the Nobel prize in physiology or medicine in 2001 for his work on how cells divide - reportedly told the conference in South Korea: "Let me tell you about my trouble with girls. "Three things happen when they are in the lab: you fall in love with them, they fall in love with you, and when you criticise them they cry.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33090022[/url]

[QUOTE] "Let me tell you about my trouble with girls. Three things happen when they are in the lab: you fall in love with them, they fall in love with you, and when you criticise them they cry."[/QUOTE] How is this a problem with girls in particular?

Dumb remarks. Generalising women like that is just plain stupid. Some people just can't handle criticism and that has nothing to do with their gender.

I like how he stuck to his guns. care about the science that a scientist does, not his old school gender ideas

[QUOTE=Darth Ninja;47929380]How is this a problem with girls in particular?[/QUOTE] Yeah he forgot to criticize gays, there's the same problem with them.

a 72 year old man has outdated ideas about gender and the role of gender in sciences. So? He's a useful guy. Keep him around and give him a slap on the wrist.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;47929627]a 72 year old man has outdated ideas about gender and the role of gender in sciences. So? He's a useful guy. Keep him around and give him a slap on the wrist.[/QUOTE] OR give him counseling so he can change his ways or learn to not express them. I agree with the keep him around big since he's good at what he does part though.

[QUOTE=draugur;47929687]OR give him counseling so he can change his ways or learn to not express them. I agree with the keep him around big since he's good at what he does part though.[/QUOTE] I don't think full on counselling is in order. A firm enough reprimand and an explanation that his views are outdated and unacceptable ought to do. Plus, he's 72; he won't do much harm anyway.

So that "ethnic" female diversity officer who banned straight white males from her meetings and used shittags like #killallwhitemen walks away but a knighted Nobel prize winner gets kicked out for a comment on women? I swear to God, the movie Idiocracy is a prophecy.

[QUOTE=vercas;47929790]So that "ethnic" female diversity officer who banned straight white males from her meetings and used shittags like #killallwhitemen walks away but a knighted Nobel prize winner gets kicked out for a comment on women? I swear to God, the movie Idiocracy is a prophecy.[/QUOTE] The former had a vote held and not enough people cared for her to be kicked out. The latter chose to resign, and the article shows no suggestion that he was encouraged or coerced. I don't see the problem here, if he [I]chose[/I] to resign what's the issue?

[QUOTE=Jamsponge;47929909]The former had a vote held and not enough people cared for her to be kicked out. The latter chose to resign, and the article shows no suggestion that he was encouraged or coerced. I don't see the problem here, if he [I]chose[/I] to resign what's the issue?[/QUOTE] He may not have [i]chosen[/i] to resign like that. It's often a sugarcoat for "leave or suffer worse consequences".

[QUOTE=vercas;47929920]Nobody [i]chooses[/i] to resign like that. It's just a sugarcoat for "leave or suffer worse consequences".[/QUOTE] So nobody has [I]ever[/I] chosen to resign because they said something dumb and don't want to have to deal with the consequences? It should probably be noted that he was an honorary professor, which means he probably showed up every now and again to give a special lecture, if that. It's not like he's lost his job and now he'll starve to death.

[QUOTE=vercas;47929920]Nobody [i]chooses[/i] to resign like that. It's just a sugarcoat for "leave or suffer worse consequences".[/QUOTE] or he was already fed up with this university and this was the final straw or any other number of scenarios besides a conspiracy

[QUOTE=TheHydra;47929941]or he was already fed up with this university and this was the final straw or any other number of scenarios besides a conspiracy[/QUOTE] That is definitely possible, but how can this be a conspiracy? "Asking to resign" is a rather common practice. [QUOTE=Jamsponge;47929934]So nobody has [I]ever[/I] chosen to resign because they said something dumb and don't want to have to deal with the consequences? It should probably be noted that he was an honorary professor, which means he probably showed up every now and again to give a special lecture, if that. It's not like he's lost his job and now he'll starve to death.[/QUOTE] You do have a point. However, I think the world needs people like him in a position that allows him to reach more people... much more than it needs the special snowflakes which get away with much worse offenses. I am rather sure he will not say that again after seeing the general reaction to his statement. Moreover, this being his only offense (couldn't find anything else bad on him), he clearly doesn't mistreat anybody. He is harmless, as far as I can tell.

[QUOTE=Jamsponge;47929909]The former had a vote held and not enough people cared for her to be kicked out. The latter chose to resign, and the article shows no suggestion that he was encouraged or coerced. I don't see the problem here, if he [I]chose[/I] to resign what's the issue?[/QUOTE] It's very common to ask for a resignation, I wouldn't be surprised if that was case here.

[QUOTE=TheHydra;47929941]or he was already fed up with this university and this was the final straw[/QUOTE] Most likely this. The reaction is disproportional to the comment. Besides, he isn't wrong, even though that was most likely a joke.

I can't believe he's lost his job over this...

[QUOTE=Ragekipz;47929975]Most likely this. The reaction is disproportional to the comment. Besides, he isn't wrong, even though that was most likely a joke.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't say he is entirely right either. Female students crying when getting criticized? That seems a bit stretched. Only in school I've seen some girls do that, but not at a university... I'd think most people are emotionally mature enough to understand criticism. Also, equally many boys cried in school too.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;47929627]a 72 year old man has outdated ideas about gender and the role of gender in sciences. So? He's a useful guy. Keep him around and give him a slap on the wrist.[/QUOTE] Oh the smell of superiority that stems from this post. Seriously, you don't even respect him. He is a nobel prize winner, and to you he is just a "useful guy". "Keep him around" sounds like something you would say about a stray dog that hangs outside, not an ace-level scientist. There are maybe 100 people in the world in total with such expertiese in the field, most likely less. I am pretty sure some whiny girls could shut up. Also screw your "outdated guy" label. The man just wanted to work and was annoyed (not one time for sure) by things, complained (who doesnt complain about something?) and received that outrage he doesnt deserve. I am sure in 72 years he has some grounds to say that girls more often can't handle criticism than men. It's a known fact that women are more emotional, there is nothing insulting about it even.

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47930011]Oh the smell of superiority that stems from this post. Seriously, you don't even respect him. He is a nobel prize winner, and to you he is just a "useful guy". "Keep him around" sounds like something you would say about a stray dog that hangs outside, not an ace-level scientist. There are maybe 100 people in the world in total with such expertiese in the field, most likely less. I am pretty sure some whiny girls could shut up. Also screw your "outdated guy" label. The man just wanted to work and was annoyed (not one time for sure) by things, complained (who doesnt complain about something?) and received that outrage he doesnt deserve. I am sure in 72 years he has some grounds to say that girls more often can't handle criticism than men. It's a known fact that women are more emotional, there is nothing insulting about it even.[/QUOTE] but female scientists are usually very smart people too. saying that their only contribution to a laboratory is splooshing over their male co-workers and randomly bursting into tears might be a [I]tiny bit[/I] misogynistic

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47930011]Oh the smell of superiority that stems from this post. Seriously, you don't even respect him. He is a nobel prize winner, and to you he is just a "useful guy". "Keep him around" sounds like something you would say about a stray dog that hangs outside, not an ace-level scientist. There are maybe 100 people in the world in total with such expertiese in the field, most likely less. I am pretty sure some whiny girls could shut up. Also screw your "outdated guy" label. The man just wanted to work and was annoyed (not one time for sure) by things, complained (who doesnt complain about something?) and received that outrage he doesnt deserve. I am sure in 72 years he has some grounds to say that girls more often can't handle criticism than men. It's a known fact that women are more emotional, there is nothing insulting about it even.[/QUOTE] I didn't mean to sound superior or disrespectful. If I came off sounding like that, I'm sorry. I think it's bullshit that he resigned because of this small remark.

[QUOTE=draugur;47929687]OR give him counseling so he can change his ways or learn to not express them. I agree with the keep him around big since he's good at what he does part though.[/QUOTE] Why would counselling be needed for a harmless joke? If anyone needs counseling it's the folks who made complaints.

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47930011]I am sure in 72 years he has some grounds to say that girls more often can't handle criticism than men. It's a known fact that women are more emotional, there is nothing insulting about it even.[/QUOTE] Age doesn't go very far in terms of "wisdom" when it comes to social opinions. It's likely that this guy is, indeed, a cranky old man with sexist ideals. He's a Nobel prize winning scientist? Well, that's incredible! I thank him for is contributions to humanity, then. But I'm not going to defend him on this. He's generalizing women, waving them off as "too emotional," which sets up a sign that says "unwelcome" to women interested in the field. Because they'll face people like him who'll just roll their eyes, assume they're going to fall in love with him and become a cry-baby when they're criticized. I can understand wanting to give him some lenience due to his contributions, but let's not try to pretend he isn't exhibiting dome outdated principles.

and considering he got his prize in a field massively aided by Rosalind Franklin, i'd expect him to be a little more respectful if not knowledgeable of the people who helped get him where he is today

[QUOTE=draugur;47929687]OR give him counseling so he can change his ways or learn to not express them. I agree with the keep him around big since he's good at what he does part though.[/QUOTE] "Conform to my ideas or face re-education" The [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory]Horseshoe theory[/url] is true

[QUOTE=LegndNikko;47930133]Age doesn't go very far in terms of "wisdom" when it comes to social opinions. It's likely that this guy is, indeed, a cranky old man with sexist ideals. He's a Nobel prize winning scientist? Well, that's incredible! I thank him for is contributions to humanity, then. But I'm not going to defend him on this. He's generalizing women, waving them off as "too emotional," which sets up a sign that says "unwelcome" to women interested in the field. Because they'll face people like him who'll just roll their eyes, assume they're going to fall in love with him and become a cry-baby when they're criticized. I can understand wanting to give him some lenience due to his contributions, but let's not try to pretend he isn't exhibiting dome outdated principles.[/QUOTE] Alright the idea he expressed is mysoginistic. But why generalise it to make it sound like this one guy's opinions are so important that they affect the whole field? He put up a sign saying "Women are not welcome in my laboratory". So it's the issue of "One scientist doesnt welcome women in his lab", but the media makes it sounds like "Women are not welcome in science". And I still think he didnt say anything worth being insulted by. He never said that women wont be able to get a job in his lab or work with him. If anything the message he sent sounds more like "if you come to my lab you should work, not fuck around, and you should be ready to be criticised". All in all, if someone said something like that when chatting to me I would say that he is wrong, but I wouldn't make a big deal of it. Maybe it's just because in Russia the society is a bit more rough and people say such things (and worse things) often.

He was also a "honorary professor" there, not an actual employed dude, it's possible (but not guaranteed) that they weren't even paying him anything. Hella famous scientists can be given "honorary" positions which are basically "yo you are our homie come hang out with us once in a while" It can mean the person works there but also it can mean it's just a honour and a gesture of good will. If he wasn't working there and it was more symbolic than anything, then him resigning could be more of him flipping them off than anything else.

[QUOTE=Cone;47930061]but female scientists are usually very smart people too. saying that their only contribution to a laboratory is splooshing over their male co-workers and randomly bursting into tears might be a [I]tiny bit[/I] misogynistic[/QUOTE] You're completly skewing everything he said.

[QUOTE=Ragekipz;47929975]Most likely this. The reaction is disproportional to the comment. Besides, he isn't wrong, even though that was most likely a joke.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;47930114]Why would counselling be needed for a harmless joke? If anyone needs counseling it's the folks who made complaints.[/QUOTE] Though he did say he was sorry about it, [url=http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33077107]he was sincere.[/url] He meant what he said. He wasn't joking, and basically is using "hey, sorry, but that's the truth" shield.

[QUOTE=Handsome Matt;47929954]He's not wrong relationships in the work place are troublesome and girls tend to be more over emotional than guys, I think it was just a harmless joke that everybody is over reacting to. If it was a girl joking about men I doubt it would get a single article written about it, this is a blatant over reaction.[/QUOTE] Yeah, it was explained as a light hearted joke, and even people in the audience perceived it that way (they didn't think it was all that funny), but some people got their panties in a twist over it [quote=bbc]Dr Jennifer Rohn, a cell biologist at University College London, added: "I think it was clear he was trying to be funny. But people will interpret his comments as having a kernel of truth underneath. And as a Nobel laureate, I know he's a human being, but he does have some sort of responsibility as a role model and as an ambassador for the profession." [/quote]