Sense of justice built into the brain - Polidicks

[release] [b]A new study from the Karolinska Institute and Stockholm School of Economics shows that the brain has built-in mechanisms that trigger an automatic reaction to someone who refuses to share. In the study publishing next week in the online open access journal PLoS Biology, the subjects' sense of justice was challenged in a two-player monetary fairness game, and their brain activity was simultaneously measured using functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI). When bidders made unfair suggestions as to how to share the money, they were often punished by their partners even if it cost them. This reaction to unfairness could be reduced by targeting one specific brain region, the amygdala.[/b] The study is based on the universal human behaviour to react with instant aggression when another person behaves unfairly and in a manner that is not in the best interest of the group. The researchers had 35 subjects play a money-based fairness game, in which one player suggests to another how a fixed sum of money is to be shared between them; the other player can then either accept the suggestion and take the money, or reject it, in which case neither player receives anything. "If the sum to be shared is 100 SEK kronor and the suggestion is 50 each, everyone accepts it as it is seen as fair," says Dr Katarina Gospic. "But if the suggestion is that you get 20 and I take 80, it's seen as unfair. In roughly half the cases it ends up with the player receiving the smaller share rejecting the suggestion, even though it costs them 20 SEK." Previous research has suggested that the area controlling the ability to analyse and make financial decisions is located in the prefrontal cortex and insula. Using fMRI, however, the researchers saw that the brain area controlling for fast financial decisions was actually located in the amygdala, an evolutionary old and therefore more primitive part of the brain that controls feelings of anger and fear. To explore these results further, the subjects were either given the anti-anxiety tranquilliser Oxazepam or a placebo while playing the game. The researchers found that those who had received the drug showed lower amygdala activity [highlight]and a stronger tendency to accept an unfair distribution of the money[/highlight] –despite the fact that when asked, they still considered the suggestion unfair. In the control group, the tendency to react aggressively and punish the player who had suggested the unfair distribution of money was directly linked to an increase in activity in the amygdala. [highlight]A gender difference was also observed, with men responding more aggressively to unfair suggestions than women by showing a correspondingly higher rate of amygdalic activity.[/highlight] This gender difference was not found in the group that received Oxazepam. "This is an incredibly interesting result that shows that it isn't just processes in the prefrontal cortex and insula that determine this kind of decision about financial equitability, as was previously thought," says Professor Martin Ingvar. [highlight]"Our findings, however, can also have ethical implications since the use of certain drugs can clearly affect our everyday decision-making processes."[/highlight] [/release] [url=http://medicalxpress.com/news/2011-05-justice-built-brain.html]Source[/url]

I always like hearing about more scientific basis...es? for moral and ethical reasoning.

That ought to shut up a few more of the "But science can't explain morality!" people.

[QUOTE=Last or First;29691244]That ought to shut up a few more of the "But science can't explain morality!" people.[/QUOTE] Actually I prefer the experiment where people were told to make a moral choice and that it could be reversed with a powerful magentic pulse just under the right ear. :v:

[QUOTE=Last or First;29691244]That ought to shut up a few more of the "But science can't explain morality!" people.[/QUOTE] science can explain everything out there except for the things that we want to know the most

Am I the only one scared of the fact that this about two humans having to cooperate, and the user's avatar is GLaDos?

[QUOTE=bravehat;29691282]Actually I prefer the experiment where people were told to make a moral choice and that it could be reversed with a powerful magentic pulse just under the right ear. :v:[/QUOTE] Source? [editline]8th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Swilly;29691410]Am I the only one scared of the fact that this about two humans having to cooperate, and the user's avatar is GLaDos?[/QUOTE] Yes.

Google it dude I'm bust right now, just search something like morality effected by magnets. Just hope you don't get miracles by ICP showing up.

Hopefully governments won't put drugs in our water or something to affect our "amygdala." Only the good lord knows how much unfairness they could get away with if people aren't as bothered about it as much.

[QUOTE=cqbcat;29691576]Hopefully governments won't put drugs in our water or something to affect our "amygdala." Only the good lord knows how much unfairness they could get away with if people aren't as bothered about it as much.[/QUOTE] They don't need to drug anyone, they're already apathetic as fuck.

[QUOTE=Mr.Dounut;29691391]science can explain everything out there except for the things that we want to know the most[/QUOTE] The 'things we want to know the most' are often vague and subjective. Science hasn't discovered or explained everything [b]yet[/b], but it's still the best method we've ever had for learning about reality. On-topic: Yay, neuroscience! :v

However, Feral children are also another issue. They clearly don't have any of that going on in them. Is that "justice" motive genetic or societally caused purely by being together?

Also interesting: [url]http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=chimps-sense-of-justice-f[/url]

[quote]since the use of certain drugs can clearly affect our everyday decision-making processes.[/quote] I, for one, am shocked at this new discovery. Inb4 benzodiazepines are used by salesmen to get their clients to accept unfair deals.

What about the person taking advantage? Do they have the justice thing?

Morals, ethics and "justice" is all based on personal beliefs, not the beliefs of others.

[QUOTE=TheGronk;29692136]Morals, ethics and "justice" is all based on personal beliefs, not the beliefs of others.[/QUOTE] Nope dude, you can effect the beliefs of those around you, it's a collaborative effort. And ethics are made to be as objective as possible to solve the problem of subjective morals.

:science:

[QUOTE=cqbcat;29691576] Only the good lord knows how much unfairness they could get away with if people aren't as bothered about it as much.[/QUOTE] Good lord doesn't know shit.

[quote]Hopefully governments won't put drugs in our water or something to affect our "amygdala."[/quote] You are a "dumbass". [editline]8th May 2011[/editline] Not so much a sense of justice, but a sense of "not getting fucked over". The test should be repeated, but with the participants viewing strangers in the same scenario.

Yeah brain is a fascinating thing..

I don't know, but aren't they testing people who were already "taught" sense of justice? Because as far as I know, as mentioned previously, feral kids don't have anything like that. Sense of justice might well enough be learned or gained through experience, and only propagated/visible on brain functions, but might not be a trait coming from the way the brain is grown. Redo this test with feral kids and then we will talk.

[QUOTE=Bat-shit;29692893]Yeah brain is a fascinating thing..[/QUOTE] i second that good sir

I thought it was fairly obvious that morality can stem from biology (even though this is more psychology). I've used this argument for years when people try to tell me it was christianity.

So government is adding something that makes us forget?

Not saying i'm scared of this, but I hope they put alot more work into this and make it completely perfect before they use it for anything, like a robot judge. nothing like getting sent to jail for life randomly

[QUOTE=deathstarboot;29694472]I thought it was fairly obvious that morality can stem from biology (even though this is more psychology). I've used this argument for years when people try to tell me it was christianity.[/QUOTE] You know the good ol' Vikings they murdered and pillaged. Only to survive. And they didn't wear those stupid horned helmets. What you know about morality?

@bat-shit They were very moral inside their own group. Keep in mind that humans work in collectives. You and them etc. \The main difference between then and now is that our morality group has grown considerably.

[QUOTE=Bat-shit;29696608]You know the good ol' Vikings they murdered and pillaged. Only to survive. And they didn't wear those stupid horned helmets. What you know about morality?[/QUOTE] They didn't really murder and pillage each other within their communities, though.

[QUOTE=Uber|nooB;29696758]They didn't really murder and pillage each other within their communities, though.[/QUOTE] You didn't need to state the obvious but yeah that's right. They were all around civilized, strong, and they killed and pillaged to survive. It's pretty cool if you think.