Encryption Costs Lives - Polidicks

[QUOTE]Last week, FBI director James Comey had sharp words for Apple and its decision to enable encryption by default on iPhones. Comey argued that Apple was allowing its customers to "place themselves beyond the law," and he worried that unbreakable encryption feature will cost lives when law enforcement isn't able to get the information they need to thwart a kidnapping or terrorist attack. But there are some good reasons for Apple to offer their customers the most robust privacy protections technology allows — even if that means the job of law enforcement becomes a bit more difficult.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.vox.com/2014/9/29/6854679/iphone-encryption-james-comey-government-backdoor"]Source[/URL]

Everyone is guilty till proven innocent.

[QUOTE=TheCreeper;46121777][URL="http://www.vox.com/2014/9/29/6854679/iphone-encryption-james-comey-government-backdoor"]Source[/URL][/QUOTE] It's for the better for Apple customers, sucks for law enforcement but what's better, not securing your product so the law enforcement and any gov. agency can have easy access or taking care of customers privacy and security...

Well they better get used to it because its gonna be more common with federal organizations putting them selves above the law

Fuck that I want privacy.

Yes, because one of the top reasons feds don't catch criminals is because of default encryption. Of course. Are they seriously trying to convince people to abandon privacy altogether now? Don't lock your doors, kids, you might be criminal!

I'm fairly sure that Secrecy of correspondence is a fairly basic human right.

[QUOTE=Intoxicated Spy;46121790]Everyone is guilty till proven innocent.[/QUOTE] Talk about buzzwords. You don't complain about 'guilty till proven innocent' when law enforcement gets a warrant to search a home. Intruding on privacy with a warrant and with strictly set limits is part and parcel of law enforcement, it's how they collect the evidence to be able to prove someone guilty. Why is it suddenly when we're talking about phones that any ability for police to do their job is a violation of your rights or whatever? [QUOTE=krix;46121884]Are they seriously trying to convince people to abandon privacy altogether now? [/QUOTE] No, they're trying to encourage companies to favor privacy methods with a central authority (like the originating company) so that, if necessary for a legal investigation and with proper warrants, they can do their job of investigating potential sources of evidence. Basic encryption won't stop organizations like the NSA with the computational muscle and vast resources to defeat conventional electronic security, but it will stop ordinary police departments from prosecuting criminals.

First off I support regulated surveillance, I know you support surveillance since we have agreed on these topics in the past. [QUOTE=catbarf;46121899]Talk about buzzwords. You don't complain about 'guilty till proven innocent' when law enforcement gets a warrant to search a home. Intruding on privacy with a warrant and with strictly set limits is part and parcel of law enforcement, it's how they collect the evidence to be able to prove someone guilty. Why is it suddenly when we're talking about phones that any ability for police to do their job is a violation of your rights or whatever? [/quote] Checking a house takes time, effort and resources. The agencies can't feasibly secretly search your property and to do so would be very resource intensive. Mass scanning emailing/text/phone calls however would just take the click of a button, there is nothing stopping authorities from doing this and they have proven (NSA through their recent actions and police through their irresponsible behaviour all over the us recently ) that they cannot be trusted to regulate themselves, therefore I suspect they would think. We need a suspect, lets just scan every text in the city and see if we get anything, then look at those people closer. [quote] No, they're trying to encourage companies to favor privacy methods with a central authority (like the originating company) so that, if necessary for a legal investigation and with proper warrants, they can do their job of investigating potential sources of evidence. [/quote] Central authority means it could be broken by central authority. So there is the problem above but also then someone at the central authority doing these things. And if a criminal got their hands on the unlock "key" then there could be trouble.

So here's a little story for you gentlemen ..take from it what you will So going back a few years i was in a long distance for a couple years with a greek girl when we weren't meeting up it was either skype texts or slightly expensive phone calls One day my computer decides its going to cook itself internally and of course it took skype with it. A few weeks went by with just the texts and calls and one day she tells me of an urban legend that if you say 3 key words "bomb" "president" and..honestly i forgot the third one lol..it makes your phone click through to some monitoring centre...just fyi she sent this by text so nothing unusual happened. Few days later we're both pretty horny and start having phone sex ...then for some reason we get a little distracted talking and end up back on the legend again. she say's the words over the phone and i shit you not ..a couple clicks and tiny split second burst of static right after she said it. There was an odd silence before she asked if I heard that too or if it was just on her end. We decided from then on every time we had phone sex to say the words till we heard the clicks beforehand just to some poor fuck at CIA or whatever had to listen to us use sometimes purposefully awkward sexy talk to one another Or masturbate furiously at work ..either way..it just made us laugh

Saying that "encryption costs lives" is like saying "not having every conversation in front of a police officer costs lives". Could it save a few? Possibly, but not nearly as many as it would ruin, and not at the cost of everyone's privacy.

Yup its like saying Airplanes cost lives Cars cost lives Kitchen appliances cost lives etc

I would like to think that the FBI is feeling the heat of all the encryption since they cannot access user files anymore because of it. Glad iOS 8 is encrypting everything.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;46121948]Mass scanning emailing/text/phone calls however would just take the click of a button, there is nothing stopping authorities from doing this and they have proven (NSA through their recent actions and police through their irresponsible behaviour all over the us recently ) that they cannot be trusted to regulate themselves, therefore I suspect they would think. We need a suspect, lets just scan every text in the city and see if we get anything, then look at those people closer. [/QUOTE] Anyone who thinks that encrypting their phone will stop them is kidding themselves. You've seen the stories, you've read about their capabilities, you know what they've done in the past- what on earth would lead anyone to believe that a rudimentary piece of encryption would be a challenge for the most technically capable agencies in the world? But for some rural police force of fifty officers, with a suspect's phone that they believe contains important evidence, there's nothing they can do. You can have privacy while still having a way for it to be unlocked in extreme circumstances and with proper legal justification, just as you can have privacy in your home without having an indestructible lock. Law enforcement has the ability to search your home with a warrant, but you still have privacy in your home because law enforcement doesn't have the ability to come barging in any time they like.

Because [i]on device[/i] digital evidence is the only way to prosecute kidnappers, terrorists and murderers right FBI? No seriously fuck off if I don't want my personal data looked at you won't look at it. Use the old fucking methods of catching criminals.

[QUOTE=Handsome Matt;46122036]Didn't the FBI take a shot at them because they weren't encrypting before, over the whole celebrity leaks? Or are only celebrities allowed encryption?[/QUOTE] the FBI considers celebrities to be above the common citizen.

[QUOTE=Handsome Matt;46122036]Didn't the FBI take a shot at them because they weren't encrypting before, over the whole celebrity leaks? Or are only celebrities allowed encryption?[/QUOTE] That's unrelated, the whole iCloud stuff is still not a good idea to enable. Even if they've fixed that massive "unlimited login attempts" hole that caused the leaks, it wouldn't be a good idea to have a not-clientside-encrypted backup.

[QUOTE=darth-veger;46122001]I would like to think that the FBI is feeling the heat of all the encryption since they cannot access user files anymore because of it. Glad iOS 8 is encrypting everything.[/QUOTE] He's blowing hot air, the feds can force apple to decrypt anything they want its been done before, FISA basically rubber stamps any action the feds want to take at this point.

[QUOTE=mini me;46121954]So here's a little story for you gentlemen ..take from it what you will So going back a few years i was in a long distance for a couple years with a greek girl when we weren't meeting up it was either skype texts or slightly expensive phone calls One day my computer decides its going to cook itself internally and of course it took skype with it. A few weeks went by with just the texts and calls and one day she tells me of an urban legend that if you say 3 key words "bomb" "president" and..honestly i forgot the third one lol..it makes your phone click through to some monitoring centre...just fyi she sent this by text so nothing unusual happened. Few days later we're both pretty horny and start having phone sex ...then for some reason we get a little distracted talking and end up back on the legend again. she say's the words over the phone and i shit you not ..a couple clicks and tiny split second burst of static right after she said it. There was an odd silence before she asked if I heard that too or if it was just on her end. We decided from then on every time we had phone sex to say the words till we heard the clicks beforehand just to some poor fuck at CIA or whatever had to listen to us use sometimes purposefully awkward sexy talk to one another Or masturbate furiously at work ..either way..it just made us laugh[/QUOTE] Did she stop all of the sudden and just goes "UMM YEAH LET ME HEAR YOU SAY THOSE WORDS BOMB PRESIDENT"

All this will stop is the local police calling up the FBI every time they have a phone in their possession, if simple encryption slows down the process enough that the local police stops spending massive amounts of resources spying on its people and instead goes back to methods of catching criminals that follow the legal channels then maybe its worth throwing an extra layer of obfuscation on everything

I don't think it really matters, doesn't the NSA have pre-encryption access to everything on Apple's servers? Encrypting the physical device doesn't do much when everything it syncs to the cloud is an open book for the NSA.

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;46122348]I don't think it really matters, doesn't the NSA have pre-encryption access to everything on Apple's servers? Encrypting the physical device doesn't do much when everything it syncs to the cloud is an open book for the NSA.[/QUOTE] According to Apple, no. Whether or not that's reality, I unno.

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;46122348]I don't think it really matters, doesn't the NSA have pre-encryption access to everything on Apple's servers? Encrypting the physical device doesn't do much when everything it syncs to the cloud is an open book for the NSA.[/QUOTE] Does Apple force you to sync every photo etc. to iCloud?

[QUOTE=DrTaxi;46123202]Does Apple force you to sync every photo etc. to iCloud?[/QUOTE] You have to manually enable it.

[QUOTE=catbarf;46121899]Talk about buzzwords. You don't complain about 'guilty till proven innocent' when law enforcement gets a warrant to search a home. Intruding on privacy with a warrant and with strictly set limits is part and parcel of law enforcement, it's how they collect the evidence to be able to prove someone guilty. Why is it suddenly when we're talking about phones that any ability for police to do their job is a violation of your rights or whatever?.[/QUOTE] Difference is, they get a warrant to search your shit after they have reason to suspect you of having committed a crime, instead of before and just in case.

[QUOTE=SenhorCreeper;46122333]Did she stop all of the sudden and just goes "UMM YEAH LET ME HEAR YOU SAY THOSE WORDS BOMB PRESIDENT"[/QUOTE] "Bomb my president, you naughty terrorist! Mmm, yeah, tell me more how you're gonna bomb my president!"

[QUOTE=darth-veger;46123367]You have to manually enable it.[/QUOTE] It was a rhetorical question.

If a company can't guarantee your personal data being encrypted and safe, what stops you from encrypting your stuff on your own? (Oh well, apart from all Apple products being closed systems of course)

[QUOTE=mini me;46121954]So here's a little story for you gentlemen ..take from it what you will So going back a few years i was in a long distance for a couple years with a greek girl when we weren't meeting up it was either skype texts or slightly expensive phone calls One day my computer decides its going to cook itself internally and of course it took skype with it. A few weeks went by with just the texts and calls and one day she tells me of an urban legend that if you say 3 key words "bomb" "president" and..honestly i forgot the third one lol..it makes your phone click through to some monitoring centre...just fyi she sent this by text so nothing unusual happened. Few days later we're both pretty horny and start having phone sex ...then for some reason we get a little distracted talking and end up back on the legend again. she say's the words over the phone and i shit you not ..a couple clicks and tiny split second burst of static right after she said it. There was an odd silence before she asked if I heard that too or if it was just on her end. We decided from then on every time we had phone sex to say the words till we heard the clicks beforehand just to some poor fuck at CIA or whatever had to listen to us use sometimes purposefully awkward sexy talk to one another Or masturbate furiously at work ..either way..it just made us laugh[/QUOTE] That's some Bloody Mary tier shit.

[QUOTE=catbarf;46121899]Basic encryption won't stop organizations like the NSA with the computational muscle and vast resources to defeat conventional electronic security, but it will stop ordinary police departments from prosecuting criminals.[/QUOTE] All it took was one simple TrueCrypt container to thwart the entire FBI. One of the most powerful governments in the world was unable to crack AES-256 encryption for almost two years before they gave up. [url]http://news.techworld.com/security/3228701/fbi-hackers-fail-to-crack-truecrypt/[/url] [url]http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06/28/brazil_banker_crypto_lock_out/[/url] Don't underestimate encryption.