Monument to soldiers who died liberating Ukraine from Nazis toppled
58 replies, posted
[quote]The ‘Soviet Soldier’ – a monument commemorating the collective sacrifice of the Soviet army against Nazi forces – has been toppled in western Ukraine. This follows the country-wide fall of some two dozen Lenin statues.
The taking down of the ‘Soviet Soldier’ in the town of Stryi, Lvov region, turns a new page in the chaos that gripped the nation in November, and has taken on dangerously nationalist overtones in the past fortnight.[/quote]
[url]http://rt.com/news/war-monument-toppled-ukraine-351/[/url]
They're not being very good to themselves by burning every single car and trashing every public monument they find.
I understand it's a revolution but fuck, you need to live in this country when you're done, stop trashing it just because you can.
To be honest I can see why. Ukrainians hate the Soviet Union, and quite a few of them supported the Germans in the war because they saw them as being better than the Soviets (unfortunately, this didn't turn out to be the case).
[QUOTE=Adsone;44017910]They're not being very good to themselves by burning every single car and trashing every public monument they find.
I understand it's a revolution but fuck, you need to live in this country when you're done, stop trashing it just because you can.[/QUOTE]
I don't think they democratically had a vote and decided to topple the monument.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;44017924]I don't think they democratically had a vote and decided to topple the monument.[/QUOTE]
I have it on good authority that the monument was toppled by a purely ochlocratic decision :v:
Considering how the Red Army was no better than the Germans, often times worse, I don't see the surprise. Nobody would be surprised if they took down a monument to the Nazi "liberators" "freeing" Ukraine from Soviet control.
Replace it with a monument honoring the Ukrainians who died liberating the Ukraine from Ukrainians.
[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;44018049]Replace it with a monument honoring the Ukrainians who died liberating the Ukraine from Ukrainians.[/QUOTE]
This is a granite memorial slab. All craftsmanship is of the highest quality. It depicts a Ukrainian peasant liberating the country of Ukraine from fellow Ukrainians. The country of Ukraine has an image of a Ukrainian peasant liberating his country from fellow Ukrainians. The peasant is happy. The country of Ukraine is crying.
I don't understand why you'd go around fucking up monuments.
It's history.
No matter what you do you can't escape it.
Why did they fuck up the lenin statues though, off-topic but why?
[QUOTE=Thomo_UK;44018133]I don't understand why you'd go around fucking up monuments.
It's history.
No matter what you do you can't escape it.
Why did they fuck up the lenin statues though, off-topic but why?[/QUOTE]
because lenin and red army statues represent decades of oppression and occupation by russia, this source is fucking Russia Today, the most biased shithole source you can find
they have every right to remove the statues, i dont understand why there still are any
its like if france had a statue of hitler and then asking why would you destroy it
For a moment, I thought it was this
[img]http://s1.ibtimes.com/sites/www.ibtimes.com/files/styles/picture_this/public/2011/06/23/118910-soviet-soldiers-at-the-base-of-the-soviet-army-monument.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Fuck_The_Pooch;44018388]For a moment, I thought it was this
[img]http://s1.ibtimes.com/sites/www.ibtimes.com/files/styles/picture_this/public/2011/06/23/118910-soviet-soldiers-at-the-base-of-the-soviet-army-monument.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
No lagging behind, Comrade McDonald, follow great example of Comrade Claus, and forward for the Glorious Motherland! CHARGE!
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;44018598]No lagging behind, Comrade McDonald, follow great example of Comrade Claus, and forward for the Glorious Motherland! CHARGE![/QUOTE]
Medals for everyone comrades!
[QUOTE=Turing;44018210]because lenin and red army statues represent decades of oppression and occupation by russia, this source is fucking Russia Today, the most biased shithole source you can find
they have every right to remove the statues, i dont understand why there still are any
its like if france had a statue of hitler and then asking why would you destroy it[/QUOTE]
Whats up with Estonians seeing Russian opression everywhere? I am deeply sorry for any attrocities that were commited to your nation by Russia and Soviet Union, but I don't think it is the case there. Ukraine has and always had close ties to Russia, considering it was, in a way, a craddle of Slavic civilization and is still home to many ethnic Russian.
Soviet Soldier is not the same as Russian Soldier, either. There were many Ukrainian people serving in the Soviet Army, and destroying the monument is an act of disrespect to their own ancestors, in a way.
It could even be seen as hypocrisy.
I don't care about Lenin monuments or any other dubious historical figures, but destroying the monument dedicated to fallen soldiers who died protecting their land is without doubt shameful.
I hope they won't do a Latvia and go around praising the Nazis now.
[QUOTE=Ezhik;44018765]I hope they won't do a Latvia and go around praising the Nazis now.[/QUOTE]
[img]http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-stare.gif[/img] [img]http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-wtc.gif[/img]
Can I have some background on this? they were seriously praising the Nazis there?
edit VVV: thanks
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;44018808][img]http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-stare.gif[/img] [img]http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-wtc.gif[/img]
Can I have some background on this? they were seriously praising the Nazis there?[/QUOTE]
[url=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/thousands-pay-tribute-to-latvias-fallen-nazi-troops-1922388.html]Here[/url]
Sounds like its honoring the men who were drafted into the Latvian SS and they fought the Soviets in 1943.
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;44018808][img]http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-stare.gif[/img] [img]http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-wtc.gif[/img]
Can I have some background on this? they were seriously praising the Nazis there?[/QUOTE]
they have parades, not exactly official, but they do:
[url]http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/mar/16/latvians-march-commemorate-ss-veterans[/url]
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;44018836][url=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/thousands-pay-tribute-to-latvias-fallen-nazi-troops-1922388.html]Here[/url]
Sounds like its honoring the men who were drafted into the Latvian SS and they fought the Soviets in 1943.[/QUOTE]
they aren't honoring the nazis tho, they are respecting the people who fought for latvia, yeah they were drafted into the Wehrmacht, but that was their only choice to fight against the invading Red Army
same deal in Estonia
the difference is, that the Soviet statues were erected under Soviet rule, in Ukraine its not so much a symbol of fighting against nazis, but a symbol of the Soviet regime
This happened in my home town
The first time there's a thread about my town in SH and it's this shit
[QUOTE=Turing;44018875]they aren't honoring the nazis tho, they are respecting the people who fought for latvia, yeah they were drafted into the Wehrmacht, but that was their only choice to fight against the invading Red Army[/QUOTE]
I didn't want to say either way since I'm not educated on the subject.
[QUOTE=Ezhik;44018859]they have parades, not exactly official, but they do:
[url]http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/mar/16/latvians-march-commemorate-ss-veterans[/url][/QUOTE]
i mean come on, its literally 85 year old veterans respecting their fallen friends and comrades
[QUOTE=Turing;44018899]i mean come on, its literally 85 year old veterans respecting their fallen friends and comrades[/QUOTE]
It's still pretty fucked up. True, Soviet Union was bad, but celebrating people fighting with the Nazis as the liberators, drafted or not, is wrong.
[QUOTE=Ezhik;44018936]It's still pretty fucked up. True Soviet Union was fucked up, but celebrating people fighting with the nazis as the liberators is wrong.[/QUOTE]
Some were forced to fight, not all of them were the vicious holocaust perpetrators that you think.
[QUOTE=Ezhik;44018936]It's still pretty fucked up. True, Soviet Union was bad, but celebrating people fighting with the Nazis as the liberators, drafted or not, is wrong.[/QUOTE]
they were exactly as bad as your typical red army draftee, they had as much to do with the holocaust as a red army soldier would have with a gulag
I'm sure having Nazi atrocities remembered doesn't block out the many Soviet atrocities that happened in the Ukraine for many.
[QUOTE=Fuck_The_Pooch;44018388]For a moment, I thought it was this
[img]http://s1.ibtimes.com/sites/www.ibtimes.com/files/styles/picture_this/public/2011/06/23/118910-soviet-soldiers-at-the-base-of-the-soviet-army-monument.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Oh god ahahahaaha fuck I can't stop laughing
[QUOTE=Ezhik;44018936]It's still pretty fucked up. True, Soviet Union was bad, but celebrating people fighting with the Nazis as the liberators, drafted or not, is wrong.[/QUOTE]
Just because they were drafted into the German military didn't mean that they suddenly believe in all the Nazi propaganda and viciously enforce all of it.
[QUOTE=Thomo_UK;44018133]I don't understand why you'd go around fucking up monuments.
It's history.
No matter what you do you can't escape it.
Why did they fuck up the lenin statues though, off-topic but why?[/QUOTE]
I for one am very happy we very quickly got rid of most soviet era monuments. As to why remove them. Why don't Germans leave elerected monuments of Hitler, what about monuments to Pol Pot or those for countless other dictators behind a a deadly brutal regime.
[QUOTE=Ezhik;44018936]It's still pretty fucked up. True, Soviet Union was bad, but celebrating people fighting with the Nazis as the liberators, drafted or not, is wrong.[/QUOTE]
In many countries they were considered more good than bad actually. Generally in countries that were under the rulership or domination of another entity and to which they essentially brought a sense of self governance. Illusory often perhaps, but one the oppressor before didn't give them.
[QUOTE=wraithcat;44019194]I for one am very happy we very quickly got rid of most soviet era monuments. As to why remove them. Why don't Germans leave elerected monuments of Hitler, what about monuments to Pol Pot or those for countless other dictators behind a a deadly brutal regime.[/QUOTE]
What would happen if they erected a monument of any of these people and added a plaque reading 'X was a faget' instead?
Sure, it's a really tasteless joke, but would people consider that to be satire or a cleverly concealed tribute?
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