Amnesty International: Both rebels and Ukrainian soldiers tortured captives - Polidicks

[quote]Overwhelming evidence of ongoing war crimes, including torture and summary killings of prisoners, serve as a stark reminder of the brutal practices being committed on a near-daily basis in the conflict in eastern Ukraine, Amnesty International said in a new report published today. The 36-page report - Breaking Bodies: Torture and summary killings in eastern Ukraine - provides compelling evidence of frequent and widespread prisoner abuse by a broad range of captors on both sides of the conflict. Former prisoners described being beaten until their bones broke, tortured with electric shocks, kicked, stabbed, hung from the ceiling, deprived of sleep for days, threatened with death, denied urgent medical care and subjected to mock executions. Of the former prisoners Amnesty interviewed, [b]17 had been held by separatists and 16 by pro-Kiev military and law enforcement officials, including the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU).[/b] Amnesty has also identified [b]at least three recent incidents where separatist fighters summarily killed at least eight pro-Kiev fighters. [/b]This is based on eyewitness testimony, hospital records, evidence posted on social networks and media reports. In an interview with a journalist, one separatist armed group leader openly admitted to killing captive Ukrainian soldiers, which is a war crime.[/quote] Fucking scum, both sides. [url=http://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/ukraine-overwhelming-new-evidence-prisoners-being-tortured-and-killed-amid-conflict]Sauce[/url]

That is what war does to you.

What's worse is for the Ukrainian and Seperatist sides is there isn't a distinct "chain of command" when you have volunteer fighters streaming to both sides of the conflict to fuck the other side up. [quote=Amnesty International]The situation on the separatist side is particularly chaotic, with a variety of different groups holding captives in at least a dozen known locations. On the pro-Kiev side, a report by a former prisoner held by Right Sector, a nationalist militia, was especially disturbing. Using an abandoned youth camp as an ad hoc prison, Right Sector has reportedly held dozens of civilian prisoners as hostages, brutally torturing them and extorting large amounts of money from them and their families. Amnesty has alerted the Ukrainian authorities to these specific allegations but has not received a response.[/quote]

I cant fathom why the Ukrainian military would allow pro-Kiev militias to rise like I understand the need for manpower, but just tell the prospective militia fighters to join the [I]actual military[/I] instead of forming a difficult to control, difficult to disarm, poorly integrated group. now [I]they[/I] are responsible for dealing with a rabble of organized skinheads committing war crimes and making their side look bad

Because when you're fighting a losing war against a bunch of rebels backed with [I]lost[/I] manpower and [I]misplaced[/I] equipment from your giant annex and pie fingering happy neighbour while the rest of the world sits by and goes, "HMM, what to do, what to do?" you sorta get desperate for any help you can get. Same issue with Syrian rebel factions, and really most conflicts we're facing in the modern world. We're hesitant to make the wrong decision, so we wait until all options are bad and the situation is shit before we do anything then we just do damage control and backpedal the entire time because "how could we possibly know that destabilising an entire region with massive violent cultural issues is a bad idea?" "How could we ever know that arming a bunch of extremist rebels who totally said they had our backs was going to back fire later?" Shit like that. Not to say I know what the fuck the West should have done in any of these conflicts, but I know that what they did do wasn't enough to prevent this from being an issue, if it could have been prevented at all, I'm no global politics / grand strategist master. Plus militias are for sure going to do shit like this. I mean, if you're pissed off enough that you've got a militia going, you're probably going to have some others who are pissed off enough to torture the enemy, these are the same enemies that could have burned down your schools, bombed your homes and raped your wives and daughters after all. (and in many wars, that would be the case) I mean, it's easy to say "go join the army" but they don't have the materials or manpower to handle the extra surge into the command structure. Shit, they might have done that but the militias said, "nope, too much time wasted, gotta defend the home front right now, you're either with us or against us."

[QUOTE=Timebomb575;47779962]I cant fathom why the Ukrainian military would allow pro-Kiev militias to rise like I understand the need for manpower, but just tell the prospective militia fighters to join the [I]actual military[/I] instead of forming a difficult to control, difficult to disarm, poorly integrated group. now [I]they[/I] are responsible for dealing with a rabble of organized skinheads committing war crimes and making their side look bad[/QUOTE] The only thing I can say when it comes to training the Ukrainian armed forces, at least the training is going to direct members of the armed forces and not absorbed volunteer battalions, though I'll admit it's to save face in the light of their nazi like imagery and fascistic tendencies of SOME, many of the fighters from the volunteer battalions have helped change the fate of battles and without them I think Ukraine would be in a worse situation. [url]http://www.newsweek.com/us-troops-prepare-ukraine-soldiers-russian-onslaught-331906[/url] [quote=Newsweek]The U.S. military is also adjusting to the media spotlight that comes with exercises like Fearless Guardian, which, while an independent exercise, is part of a larger rebalance of U.S. military power in Eastern Europe. Highlighting the diplomatic sensitivity of having U.S. troops on Ukrainian soil is an April 17 statement by Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Alexander Lukashevich, in response to the 173rd’s arrival in Yavoriv. [b]“We wonder if Washington, London and Ottawa know that they will train the very same Ukrainian ultra-nationalists from the volunteer battalions who have Nazi symbols on their uniforms and who killed women, children and the elderly during the punitive operations in Donbass,” Lukashevich said. “Will the overseas instructors train them in more efficient methods of killing Russian speakers in Ukraine?” He added, “It is obvious that U.S. troops will not bring peace to Ukraine.” [/b] Citing the [b]Leahy Law, which prohibits the U.S. from supporting foreign military groups accused of human rights violations[/b], a U.S. military official said the [highlight]Ukrainian National Guard units involved in Fearless Guardian had been thoroughly vetted.[/highlight] [b]Some prominent units have been left out of the training, however, such as the [highlight]Ukrainian National Guard Azov Regiment[/highlight], which Moscow has accused of being a neo-Nazi group.[/b][/quote]

[QUOTE=Timebomb575;47779962]I cant fathom why the Ukrainian military would allow pro-Kiev militias to rise like I understand the need for manpower, but just tell the prospective militia fighters to join the [I]actual military[/I] instead of forming a difficult to control, difficult to disarm, poorly integrated group. now [I]they[/I] are responsible for dealing with a rabble of organized skinheads committing war crimes and making their side look bad[/QUOTE] You make it sound like it's just the militias. Op lists 'law enforcement' and sbu as potentially involved. Regarding the militias, there were there early on lots aren't happy with the current government, there has been talk of a ' third maiden' the government has to be very careful to keep the militias on side. They made a deal with the devil and backing out would be dangerous.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;47780081]You make it sound like it's just the militias. Op lists 'law enforcement' and sbu as potentially involved.[/QUOTE] It does say that, but it doesn't list an account of it, just Right Sector members detaining people. I mean, don't get me wrong it's probably true, but if I was talking about the Security Service of Ukraine, I'd talk about the Security Service of Ukraine instead of something else that IS Ukrainian but ISN'T what was previously talked about.

kinda not surprising why they call it a civil war

[QUOTE=Sableye;47780670]kinda not surprising why they call it a civil war[/QUOTE] Civil war makes it awkward to take out loans from the IMF/ECB. Thats why they called it a counter terrorist operation or whatever it was. UN needs to stop it already.

[QUOTE=Timebomb575;47779962]I cant fathom why the Ukrainian military would allow pro-Kiev militias to rise like I understand the need for manpower, but just tell the prospective militia fighters to join the [I]actual military[/I] instead of forming a difficult to control, difficult to disarm, poorly integrated group. now [I]they[/I] are responsible for dealing with a rabble of organized skinheads committing war crimes and making their side look bad[/QUOTE] Problem is that they can't control them. The militias have different owners, oligarchs that can and do literally equip their own private armies. I doubt the sponsors of rebels can control them either. Hence why leaders of rebel squads die from time to time far away from frontlines.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;47780802]Civil war makes it awkward to take out loans from the IMF/ECB. Thats why they called it a counter terrorist operation or whatever it was. UN needs to stop it already.[/QUOTE] How?

Both sides have blood on their hands. Both sides also use volunteer militias, and that adds a whole lot more issues. I knew both sides did it literally by watching YouTube. While the mainstream Ukrainian army may be better, the volunteer battalions literally don't give a shit. Motorola and Givi are well known DPR commanders who do it as well.