How the controller took the importance of aim out of shooters (self posted)
148 replies, posted
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn2rxJOsFRs[/media]
Let me know what you think, I like reading opinions, disagreements or advice on my videos.
I remember back when there would be regular Mouse vs Controller debates here and I always wanted to make a proper argument for my opinion.
Aim assist in games is the fucking worst thing ever
in gta 5 the aim assist is basically aim bot too
[QUOTE=J!NX;51529286]Aim assist in games is the fucking worst thing ever
in gta 5 the aim assist is basically aim bot too[/QUOTE]
In nearly every gta actually, San Andreas and IV aim definetly worked like aimbot.
[QUOTE=Edge97;51529323]In nearly every gta actually, San Andreas and IV aim definetly worked like aimbot.[/QUOTE]
Thankfully the PC version of 4 and 5 give you the option to turn it off. While playing GTA I always use both a keyboard + Mouse and a controller. I hot swap them when I get in or out of a vehicle because driving with WASD is hard.
[QUOTE=J!NX;51529286]Aim assist in games is the fucking worst thing ever
in gta 5 the aim assist is basically aim bot too[/QUOTE]
I don't think it's really a bad thing when a game designed for controllers uses aim assist, and it's not worth trying to debate whether or not it's better. Trying to play a game like GTAV with a controller is impossible without it, in fact it feels terrible trying to line up sights with a game like that even on mouse and keyboard. it's just not a game that's designed around combat, it's designed around being a crazy hollywood level badass getting from point a to b with minimal disruptions, letting player interaction and gun/car fights disrupt that.
as for the aim bot argument, the best way to avoid it is to stay in cover but keep on moving, which again plays in to the "a to b" argument. those who know the best paths on either side will have the better chance at making it through. GTA players move slowly, which is why it's important to plan your routes ahead of time. its a game to play on the couch, get relaxed, but start to amp up due to the situations becoming more critical on how quick you can move, not how well you can aim.
on the other hand, it's the same reason why I wouldn't dare touch Quake 3 on a console, because it's almost impossible to play due to being a game that was designed from the ground up to be all about combat and quick thinking. thats a game that relies on twitch reactions, it relies on staying alive. GTA is point to point combat, while Quake is about situational combat in an arena. he covers this a ton in the video, that there are games that require one or the other. you've just gotta know that some games provide one type of gameplay experience and the other doesn't.
thanks for making this video btw pig, it's short but indepth and I appreciate it's existence a lot.
while unreal tournament and the like were fun, frantic games, I'm not sure footage of people flailing around like their mouse fell off the desk is the best example to play when talking about raw skill of shoot-and-avoid gameplay. Sure it applies but it's a visual mess and anybody who's unfamiliar with the franchise will see it as silly nonsense
I also like some assistance methods, like the 'magnetism' example. It allows you to be quick and snappy with your controller movements while still having more finite aim when looking directly at a target, something I feel is painfully missing from a few games. Battlefield 1 on the XBone is almost unplayable to me with its default controls, it felt [I]way [/I]too twitchy for much precision even after turning the sensitivity down. I had played it a ton on PC prior to trying the console version so it was extremely jarring
this topic is way overdone tbh
video feels like a gameradar article from 2008
[QUOTE=dai;51529496]while unreal tournament and the like were fun, frantic games, I'm not sure footage of people flailing around like their mouse fell off the desk is the best example to play when talking about raw skill of shoot-and-avoid gameplay.[/QUOTE]
Counter strike would work as well since gun fights aren't as crazy but still require good aim and quick reflexes. I just don't play it as much (I also suck at Counter Strike).
One example I know wish I put into my video is the that even shooters designed with a controller in mind (like perfect dark, Golden eye, Doom 64, halo, ect) feel better with a mouse but I decided not to because Videogame Dunkey already mentioned it in one of his videogames.
But there are mice for consoles
At least playstation 4
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/pZA32ko.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;51529583]Counter strike would work as well since gun fights aren't as crazy but still require good aim and quick reflexes. I just don't play it as much (I also suck at Counter Strike).
One example I know wish I put into my video is the that even shooters designed with a controller in mind (like perfect dark, Golden eye, Doom 64, halo, ect) feel better with a mouse but I decided not to because Videogame Dunkey already mentioned it in one of his videogames.[/QUOTE]
I played CS:GO with a PS4 controller once. It was kinda painful as a non-controller player but after getting shit on throughout the match by my teammates for doing such a thing I actually ended up top-fragging and ranking up to gold lmao
[QUOTE=Max;51529607]But there are mice for consoles
At least playstation 4
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/pZA32ko.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
True but you would get your ass kicked to all the players who play with aim assist
[QUOTE=cdr248;51529546]this topic is way overdone tbh
video feels like a gameradar article from 2008[/QUOTE]
I think the difference between now and 2008 is that every controller console has the ability to play games without the use of analog. The Wiiu and ps4 controllers have precise Gryoscopes or some type of motion control that can be used as a pointer. While at the same time Microsoft and sony are thinking about supporting mouse controls for their systems.
I really hope the Switch will have a gyroscope because I can't imagine playing Splatoon without it. I also hope it supports Wiimotes so I can play the Metroid prime 4 (if nintendo ever makes it) with the wiimote and nunchuck.
[QUOTE=Max;51529607]But there are mice for consoles
At least playstation 4
snip[/QUOTE]
IIRC these are much better for shooters, but they still behave very differently compared to an actual mouse and keyboard. Kind of like using an analog stick with your whole hand
[QUOTE=Max;51529607]But there are mice for consoles
At least playstation 4
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/pZA32ko.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
The issue is that while the ps4 itself supports them, most ps4 games don't. At least based on
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-6tHL0iMI4[/media]
It wouldn't be hard for the devs to do. I mean they already made mouse controls for the PC port. All they would have to do is switch it on for the console.
Comparing arena shooters to battlefield? Obviously it's going to be different, they're entirely different games.
[QUOTE=J!NX;51529286]Aim assist in games is the fucking worst thing ever
in gta 5 the aim assist is basically aim bot too[/QUOTE]
Unless it's a console game. Trying to do precise aiming with a stick is the worst fucking shit ever ever ever.
[QUOTE=plunger435;51529655]Comparing arena shooters to battlefield? Obviously it's going to be different, they're entirely different games.[/QUOTE]
Battlefield 1942 (the first one) and BF2 treated Iron sights differently. They weren't as necessary. Since the series started selling better on consoles they started configuring it more for the controller. I don't want BF to be quake but I don't want it to suffer from modern game philosophy either. They also did a few other things like lower TTK and added in health regeneration into the later games to appeal more to console players.
[QUOTE=plunger435;51529655]Comparing arena shooters to battlefield? Obviously it's going to be different, they're entirely different games.[/QUOTE]
You kinda missed the point, its more about why they are different
It sounds like this guy wants every multiplayer shooter to be like Classic UT or Quake or something. While I think Call of Duty levels of aim assit with ADS is stupid. I've enjoyed and been able to get into shooters more now than 15 years ago. I honestly can't stand games where everyone is flailing around shooting madly at each other.
[QUOTE=simkas;51529712]Unless it's a console game. Trying to do precise aiming with a stick is the worst fucking shit ever ever ever.[/QUOTE]
tbh I'd rather outright avoid having to need it to boot
Every single time I use a joystick in a game (to aim anyways) it pisses me off and feels terrible. I've played tons of CoD and Halo on consoles, so I'm familiar with it but hate it
Good video, I really enjoyed it. My only gripe was the part where you compared the expanded mario platforms with auto-assist in console shooters. I do see your point here, but if Mario games where made that way you explained in the video, the game would be better if you turned if off (like how the games actually are). However, console shooters get worse if you turn off aim-assist because controllers are terrible for aiming.
[QUOTE=Saxon;51529772]It sounds like this guy wants every multiplayer shooter to be like Classic UT or Quake or something. While I think Call of Duty levels of aim assit with ADS is stupid. I've enjoyed and been able to get into shooters more now than 15 years ago. I honestly can't stand games where everyone is flailing around shooting madly at each other.[/QUOTE]
Look at counter strike, splatoon, TF2 or Overwatch (which you clearly play) which don't have ADS but are nothing like Quake or UT. The only issue Overwatch has when it comes to aiming is it's basically broken hit boxes but pretty much everyone complains about that. There are also games like Doom 2016 which do have iron sights on some weapons but they don't actually impact accuracy or slow the player done (at least in single player).
Probably my favorite PC -> console comparison article is this old one from Penny Arcade, where a dev explains the changes they made when porting their arena shooter to console.
[url]https://www.penny-arcade.com/news/post/2011/1/24[/url]
[QUOTE]It all comes down to how each input mechanism affects your ability to turn. On a console, the angle in which a player can turn is a function of both time and displacement of the thumb stick. No matter how far players want to turn, they have to pay a time cost. Even at the highest controller sensitivity, there is a time cost to be paid. On a PC the angle of turn is a direct mapping of how far you move the mouse. The time cost is variable and the better players get that time cost to approach zero.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Hikkotch;51529845]Good video, I really enjoyed it. My only gripe was the part where you compared the expanded mario platforms with auto-assist in console shooters. I do see your point here, but if Mario games where made that way you explained in the video, the game would be better if you turned if off (like how the games actually are). However, console shooters get worse if you turn off aim-assist because controllers are terrible for aiming.[/QUOTE]
It is really hard to think of an example similar to auto aim in shooters. The closest I could think of after giving it some thought would be auto combo buttons in some fighting games. But those generally aren't put in because the controller isn't good enough to do those combos.
I think maybe phone games might work since in many phone games they often take away major things because the touch pad doesn't allow for many inputs like how super mario run has mario literally running for you and all the player does is tap to jump.
[QUOTE=Lazore;51529737]You kinda missed the point, its more about why they are different[/QUOTE]
There's way way too much rhetoric involved for you to have me believe this was an informative video only.
Most of the other points don't really hold up either. If you want to shift console players to also all using mouse and keyboards why bother even having it be different. I like to sit back on my couch when I play a PS4 game, and if the competition are all sitting at their same computer desks playing with a mouse and keyboard that's a big disadvantage to everyone who got a console for living room play (The intended purpose). There's a reason they don't introduce official peripherals for this kind of thing, they don't want to alienate their core audience.
The majority of competitive FPS games on PC still all rely on aiming well. Overwatch is not what I'd consider to be the benchmark of ESports shooters.
[QUOTE=plunger435;51530154]
Most of the other points don't really hold up either. If you want to shift console players to also all using mouse and keyboards why bother even having it be different. I like to sit back on my couch when I play a PS4 game, and if the competition are all sitting at their same computer desks playing with a mouse and keyboard that's a big disadvantage to everyone who got a console for living room play (The intended purpose). There's a reason they don't introduce official peripherals for this kind of thing, they don't want to alienate their core audience.
[/QUOTE]
Gyro controls and light guns are able to be used while on a couch and at the same time even just using a mouse on an arm rest or stand is superior to using analog sticks. Fighting games don't disable fight sticks despite them being better and costing a ton of money. You can buy a mouse for $7, a playstation move for only $12 and your controller already has gyroscope technology built in. In this case the better alternative is also the cheaper alternative. If someone STILL wants to use the worse control scheme then that should be on them.
On top of this on PC games where using a controller is better (like say fighting games where a controller is better than a keyboard) developers don't disable controller players.
The way things are done now force the player to use a frankly bad control scheme and dumb down the gameplay just so playing with a controller is even possible and even then a mouse, light gun, ect is STILL the better option.
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;51530247]Gyro controls and light guns are able to be used while on a couch and at the same time even just using a mouse on an arm rest or stand is superior to using analog sticks. Fighting games don't disable fight sticks despite them being better and costing a ton of money. You can buy a mouse for $7, a playstation move for only $12 and your controller already has gyroscope technology built in. In this case the better alternative is also the cheaper alternative. If someone STILL wants to use the worse control scheme then that should be on them.
On top of this on PC games where using a controller is better (like say fighting games where a controller is better than a keyboard) developers don't disable controller players.
The way things are done now force the player to use a frankly bad control scheme and dumb down the gameplay just so playing with a controller is even possible and even then a mouse, light gun, ect is STILL the better option.[/QUOTE]
a lightgun? That is not a better option.
[editline]14th December 2016[/editline]
I'm primarily a PC gamer, but I can't even remotely understand the level of "GAMEPADS DESTROYED GAMING" that seems to be going on here.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51530295]a lightgun? That is not a better option.[/QUOTE]
Light guns and similar tech have advanced a lot int he last 10 years. Technically a ps move or wiimote doesn't work exactly the same as something you would see on on the NES but it is similar enough in that they both use light read and emitted in order to tell the players position and they are very accurate.
Even using an older example like in house of the dead you can see that the player is able to move the cross-hair quickly and accurately to shoot at enemies. At least quicker and more accurate than a controller can.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMSCLTwz3qI[/media]
[editline]14th December 2016[/editline]
Also Gyro controls, which again the ps4 and wiiu support, are faster and more accurate than the analog.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fdzo9Fh7Cbk[/media]
A good video on gyro controls and why they are better than stick in splatoon.
Speaking of gyro controls, look at what can be achieved with the Steam Controller when using the touchpad and the gyro in tandem for mouselook.
[media]https://youtu.be/O_QP-k0YuIU[/media]
This dude is better than me with a mouse.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;51530455]Speaking of gyro controls, look at what can be achieved with the Steam Controller when using the touchpad and the gyro in tandem for mouselook.
[media]https://youtu.be/O_QP-k0YuIU[/media]
This dude is better than me with a mouse.[/QUOTE]
Would this not be a game pad
I own one
It is in fact a game pad
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