Ukraine allows commanders to shoot own soldiers to control them - Polidicks

[quote] Ukraine’s parliament voted on Thursday with 260 MPs in favor - only 226 votes were needed to pass the law. The new article 22(1) added to the charter regulating service in the armed forces of Ukraine states that commanders “have the right to personally use physical force, special means, and weapons when in combat” against soldiers who commit “criminal acts.” Under criminal acts the law lists “disobedience, resistance or threat to use force against the commander, voluntary abandonment of military positions and certain locations of military units in areas of combat missions.” An explanatory note to the document says that currently there are mass violations of military discipline, in particular, desertion from units and drinking alcohol, as well failure to execute commanders’ orders. [/quote] [url]http://rt.com/news/229739-ukraine-army-shoot-defectors/[/url] [b]It's okay if you don't trust RT, but here's the original document from UA gov that RT is merely reporting on, check it for yourself.[/b] On [URL="http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb2/webproc4_1?id=&pf3511=53587"]this site of Ukrainian rada you can find the document[/URL](I posted a direct link to it below so you can skip navigating that poor site if you want) [url]http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb2/webproc34?id=&pf3511=53587&pf35401=324798[/url] Quote in question, from document [quote]Законопроектом передбачається покласти на командирів обов'язок вживати рішучих заходів щодо припинення вчинення кримінального правопорушення підлеглими та відновлення правопорядку. Для цього в особливий період, у тому числі в умовах воєнного стану чи в бойовій обстановці, з метою затримання військовослужбовців, які вчиняють кримінальні правопорушення, пов'язані із непокорою, опором чи погрозою начальнику застосування насильства, самовільним залишенням бойових позицій та визначених місць дислокації військових частин (підрозділів) в районах виконання бойових завдань, командири наділяються повноваженнями особисто застосовувати заходи фізичного впливу, спеціальні засоби, а в бойовій обстановці – застосовувати зброю чи віддавати підлеглим наказ про застосування таких засобів, якщо в інший спосіб неможливо припинити такі злочинні діяння (зміни до Дисциплінарного статуту Збройних Сил України, Статуту внутрішньої служби Збройних Сил України).[/quote] Translate it via google translate. Hope such sources are enough to not get me banned for using a non-Western source since it's directly from Ukrainian parliament

What the fuck? Is their situation that desperate?

[QUOTE=Swineflu;47081648]What the fuck? Is their situation that desperate?[/QUOTE] The RT article says that it's because of massive failure of mobilisation. The original document confirms it in paragraph 1.

I'm skeptical, but honestly that's absolutely fucked. That's WWI level of Military punishment.

That OP...it's just so smug! From what I gathered if troops try to desert or fight back against officers they get shot.

Wow, that's all out war-tier measures.

I wonder if they are having issues with turncoats.

[QUOTE=Zambies!;47081678]That OP...it's just so smug! From what I gathered if troops try to desert or fight back against officers they get shot.[/QUOTE] Yeah. When something like that happens in the middle of direct military engagement, the commander is authorized (and required) to use any means necessary, including lethal force, to restore order.

[QUOTE=Zambies!;47081678]That OP...it's just so smug! [/QUOTE] I am just paranoid I will get banned for RT as source

Is "Not one step back!" a genetic thing for Slavic people?

It's RussiaToday, I'd take this with a cup of salt. But either way they got shaken by the russian military and to hold out this long is impressive. While the act of shooting your own soldiers is disgusting, I can't blame them for trying to keep a control of their armed forces after the beating they are taking.

I'll withold judgement on this until there's more trustworthy sources, Ukraine is no saint in this but this is extreme. I'd be sceptical even if Russia was the one doing this.

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47081702]I am just paranoid I will get banned for RT as source[/QUOTE] We all been there, pal. Also, on news itself - hardly suprised. As if there was no cases of friendly fire in Ukranian army before. Horrible, yeah, but fits well. Adding this up to establsied procedures about crossing borders at conscript age gives an entire level of ironical. You in Ukraine. You are male, 20+. Go to army. Get shot. You are female 20+. Go to army. Get shot. You attempt to leave country, need a paper allowing you to avoid army. No paper, detained, Go to army. Get shot. You attempt to leave country, need a paper allowing you to avoid army. No paper,detained, Go to army. Try to Escape. Get shot by your officer. You attempt to leave country, got Paper. Get in Russia. [sp]Yeah, you guessed it, Get shot [I]eventually[/I].[/sp] Last part about Russia is not a joke though. Amount of Ukranian refugess, including ones who hid from mobilization is damn high. [QUOTE=LtKyle2;47081745]It's RussiaToday, I'd take this with a cup of salt. But either way they got shaken by the russian military and to hold out this long is impressive. While the act of shooting your own soldiers is disgusting, I can't blame them for trying to keep a control of their armed forces after the beating they are taking.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=NoOnE#235;47081746]I'll withold judgement on this until there's more trustworthy sources, Ukraine is no saint in this but this is extreme. I'd be sceptical even if Russia was the one doing this.[/QUOTE] Wow, you people, are [B]LITERALLY[/B] the ones he wrote this for. [QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47081640] [b]It's okay if you don't trust RT, but here's the original document from UA gov that RT is merely reporting on, check it for yourself.[/b] On [URL="http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb2/webproc4_1?id=&pf3511=53587"]this site of Ukrainian rada you can find the document[/URL](I posted a direct link to it below so you can skip navigating that poor site if you want) [url]http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb2/webproc34?id=&pf3511=53587&pf35401=324798[/url] Quote in question, from document Translate it via google translate. Hope such sources are enough to not get me banned for using a non-Western source since it's directly from Ukrainian parliament[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Demeschik;47081743]Is "Not one step back!" a genetic thing for Slavic people?[/QUOTE] It's the absolute stupidity and desperate state of the Ukrainian government right now, it seems... They've been doing everything wrong since the start, pretty much ignoring the events in Eastern Ukraine, and then, upon realization of what's going on, they resorted to mass mobilization. As a result, Ukrainian army, - consisting of very low-quality troops (sorry, I know these are people, but bear with me, as soldiers they're shit-tier), lacking equipment and discipline, - faces professionals. The consequences are obvious. The sad part, this authorization of lethal force, given the quality of Ukrainian officers, is going to be abused, the morale will get lower, the desertion and depression will only rise. All these things already happened in the past, many countries have faced this situation. All of this is fucking terrible, jesus christ. I really hope it ends soon.

[QUOTE=karimatrix;47081764]We all been there, pal. Also, on news itself - hardly suprised. As if there was no cases of friendly fire in Ukranian army before. Horrible, yeah, but fits well. Adding this up to establsied procedures about crossing borders at conscript age gives an entire level of ironical. You in Ukraine. You are male, 20+. Go to army. Get shot. You are female 20+. Go to army. Get shot. You attempt to leave country, need a paper allowing you to avoid army. No paper, detained, Go to army. Get shot. You attempt to leave country, need a paper allowing you to avoid army. No paper,detained, Go to army. Try to Escape. Get shot by your officer. You attempt to leave country, got Paper. Get in Russia. [sp]Yeah, you guessed it, Get shot [I]eventually[/I].[/sp] Last part about Russia is not a joke though. Amount of Ukranian refugess, including ones who hid from mobilization is damn high. Wow, you people, are [B]LITERALLY[/B] the ones he wrote this for.[/QUOTE] Can't I escape to, say, Romania / Turkey / Poland , with papers, possibly? P.S. : Now when I was thinking of exemplary countries, dammit, around Ukraine is also Transdniestr and Belarus, Russian influence is everywhere [editline]6th February 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=NoOnE#235;47081746]I'll withold judgement on this until there's more trustworthy sources, Ukraine is no saint in this but this is extreme. I'd be sceptical even if Russia was the one doing this.[/QUOTE] Source is Legit, for all I know

[QUOTE=Dostoyevsky;47081787]Can't I escape to, say, Romania / Turkey / Poland , with papers, possibly? P.S. : Now when I was thinking of exemplary countries, dammit, around Ukraine is also Transdniestr and Belarus, [B]Russian influence is everywhere[/B][/QUOTE] Yeah, It's pretty much like that: [IMG]http://i61.tinypic.com/24es807.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=karimatrix;47081873]Yeah, It's pretty much like that: [IMG]http://i61.tinypic.com/24es807.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] Kind of thinking about it, if Ukraine was just handed over to Russia immediately, this shit wouldn't be happening right now.

[QUOTE=Deathtrooper2;47081895]Kind of thinking about it, if Ukraine was just handed over to Russia immediately, this shit wouldn't be happening right now.[/QUOTE] Ukraine is a sovereign nation and doesn't owe Russia its sovereignty just because it illegally invaded them and annexed Crimea.

[QUOTE=Deathtrooper2;47081895]Kind of thinking about it, if Ukraine was just handed over to Russia immediately, this shit wouldn't be happening right now.[/QUOTE] And live up to a stereotype that Chernobyl is indeed in Russia? Naaah. Also, seeying Ukranian posters in here, can they share info on how the current state of mobilization is going and what is people's reaction first hand?

[QUOTE=karimatrix;47081910]And live up to a stereotype that Chernobyl is indeed in Russia? Naaah. Also, seeying Ukranian posters in here, can they share info on how th curretn state of mobilization is going and what is people's reaction first hand?[/QUOTE] One of my mom's coworkers was taken into the army by the police right from the workplace yesterday. Shit's fucked

Good ol' Soviet tactics.

If this is true, it's [I]almost[/I] reverting back to 1940's style of summary execution for failure on the battlefield. Resorting to this extreme amount of punishment will not improve army efficiency one bit. It has been tried before by ruthless dictators in desperate defense of their power, and it clearly showed then that the threat of death does not increase anyone's ability to fight what so ever. It does not make soldiers on the ground any more determined, nor does it make for tactically sensible field commanders. What it does is increase death toll on all sides, and in the worst case, by not allowing army units to retreat, will get units surrounded and captured or destroyed.

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;47081928]One of my mom's coworkers was taken into the army by the police right from the workplace yesterday. Shit's fucked[/QUOTE] Heard Poroshenko is considering declaring Martial law, know anything about that?

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;47081907]Ukraine is a sovereign nation and doesn't owe Russia its sovereignty just because it illegally invaded them and annexed Crimea.[/QUOTE] though something tells me it'd turn out better for the people none of that "muh europe" ofcourse, but if I had to choose between this and constant shelling..

[thumb]http://belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/163732-Artwork-20Commissar-20Imperial-20Guard.jpg[/THUMB] [I]Fear ensures loyalty, where do you need me?[/I]

[QUOTE=MissZoey;47082081][thumb]http://belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/163732-Artwork-20Commissar-20Imperial-20Guard.jpg[/THUMB] [I]Fear ensures loyalty, where do you need me?[/I][/QUOTE] [I]The Holy European Course for Ukraine[/I]

[QUOTE=Dostoyevsky;47081787]Can't I escape to, say, Romania / Turkey / Poland , with papers, possibly? P.S. : Now when I was thinking of exemplary countries, dammit, around Ukraine is also Transdniestr and Belarus, Russian influence is everywhere [editline]6th February 2015[/editline] Source is Legit, for all I know[/QUOTE] Well I don't know about papers, but I saw on the news that a lot of ethnic romanians from southern Ukraine ran through the border and are safe now in Romania. I think they have their contraband paths through the Carpathians that they know around those parts, and can escape the country easily. Worth checking?

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;47081928]One of my mom's coworkers was taken into the army by the police right from the workplace yesterday. Shit's fucked[/QUOTE] What's your own situation though? Is there a great chance of getting drafted in the coming days?

[QUOTE=Swineflu;47082141]Well I don't know about papers, but I saw on the news that a lot of ethnic romanians from southern Ukraine ran through the border and are safe now in Romania. I think they have their contraband paths through the Carpathians that they know around those parts, and can escape the country easily. Worth checking?[/QUOTE] Why did Ethnic Romanians fled again? Are they afraid of being drafted aswell? Cause right now South, including Odessa is under control of Ukranian goverment.

[QUOTE=karimatrix;47082299]Why did Ethnic Romanians fled again? Are they afraid of being drafted aswell?[/QUOTE] Not afraid of being drafted, they were being drafted. The Ukrainian state first went to the minorities, then the major Ukrainian cities. After being treated like shit by the Ukrainian state, they don't see any reason to help. So they're running here.