Jon Stewart points out hypocrisy in the Charleston church massacre + Why Is the Confederate Flag Sti - Polidicks

[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/style-blog/wp/2015/06/19/read-jon-stewarts-blistering-monologue-about-race-terrorism-and-gun-violence-after-charleston-church-massacre/[/url] daily show video: [url]http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/kb2h42/charleston-church-shooting[/url] [QUOTE]“And maybe if I wasn’t nearing the end of the run, or this wasn’t such a common occurrence, maybe I could have pulled out of the spiral,” continued Stewart, who signs off “The Daily Show” for good on Aug. 6. “But I didn’t.” After his intro, he went straight into his interview with his guest Malala Yousafzai, the 17-year-old Pakistani activist and Nobel Peace Prize winner. Here’s a complete transcript of his searing monologue at the top of his show, which tackled race, terrorism and gun violence: I honestly have nothing other than just sadness once again that we have to peer into the abyss of the depraved violence that we do to each other and the nexus of a just gaping racial wound that will not heal, yet we pretend doesn’t exist. And I’m confident, though, that by acknowledging it, by staring into that and seeing it for what it is, we still won’t do jack s—. Yeah. That’s us. And that’s the part that blows my mind. I don’t want to get into the political argument of the guns and things. But what blows my mind is the disparity of response between when we think people that are foreign are going to kill us, and us killing ourselves. If this had been what we thought was Islamic terrorism, it would fit into our — we invaded two countries and spent trillions of dollars and thousands of American lives and now fly unmanned death machines over five or six different countries, all to keep Americans safe. We got to do whatever we can. We’ll torture people. We gotta do whatever we can to keep Americans safe. Nine people shot in a church. What about that? “Hey, what are you gonna do? Crazy is as crazy is, right?” That’s the part that I cannot, for the life of me, wrap my head around, and you know it. You know that it’s going to go down the same path. “This is a terrible tragedy.” They’re already using the nuanced language of lack of effort for this. This is a terrorist attack. This is a violent attack on the Emanuel Church in South Carolina, which is a symbol for the black community. It has stood in that part of Charleston for 100 and some years and has been attacked viciously many times, as many black churches have. I heard someone on the news say “Tragedy has visited this church.” This wasn’t a tornado. This was a racist. This was a guy with a Rhodesia badge on his sweater. You know, so the idea that — you know, I hate to even use this pun, but this one is black and white. There’s no nuance here. And we’re going to keep pretending like, “I don’t get it. What happened? This one guy lost his mind.” But we are steeped in that culture in this country and we refuse to recognize it, and I cannot believe how hard people are working to discount it. In South Carolina, the roads that black people drive on are named for Confederate generals who fought to keep black people from being able to drive freely on that road. That’s insanity. That’s racial wallpaper. That’s — that’s — you can’t allow that, you know. Nine people were shot in a black church by a white guy who hated them, who wanted to start some kind of civil war. The Confederate flag flies over South Carolina, and the roads are named for Confederate generals, and the white guy’s the one who feels like his country is being taken away from him. We’re bringing it on ourselves. And that’s the thing. Al-Qaeda, all those guys, ISIS, they’re not s— compared to the damage that we can apparently do to ourselves on a regular basis. So our guest tonight is an incredible person who suffered unspeakable violence by extremists, and her perseverance and determination through that to continue on is an incredible inspiration. And to be quite honest with you, I don’t think there’s anyone else in the world I would rather talk to tonight than Malala. So that’s what we’re going to do. And sorry about no jokes.[/QUOTE] Also: [url]http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/why-is-the-flag-still-there/396431/[/url] [IMG]http://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/mt/2015/06/image_242/lead_960.jpg?GE2DGNBXGIZDONJQFYYA====[/IMG] [QUOTE]On Saturday, [URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/21/us/dylann-storm-roof-photos-website-charleston-church-shooting.html"]news organizations linked Dylann Roof[/URL], the sole suspect in last week's Charleston church shootings, to a website with a rambling manifesto of hate, illustrated with dozens of pictures. Several showed him posing with a Confederate battle flag. [B]The flags of the United States and of South Carolina, atop the Capitol dome in Columbia, were lowered to half-staff last week in the wake of the Charleston shootings. The Confederate battle flag flying on the Capitol grounds was not.[/B][/QUOTE] [url]http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/take-down-the-confederate-flag-now/396290/[/url] [QUOTE]Last night, Dylann Roof walked into a Charleston church, sat for an hour, and then killed nine people. Roof’s crime cannot be divorced from the ideology of white supremacy which long animated his state nor from its potent symbol—the Confederate flag. Visitors to Charleston have long been treated to South Carolina’s attempt to clean its history and depict its secession as something other than a war to guarantee the enslavement of the majority of its residents. This notion is belied by any serious interrogation of the Civil War and the primary documents of its instigators. Yet the Confederate battle flag—the flag of Dylann Roof—still flies on the Capitol grounds in Columbia. The Confederate flag’s defenders often claim it represents “heritage not hate.” I agree—the heritage of White Supremacy was not so much birthed by hate as by the impulse toward plunder. Dylann Roof plundered nine different bodies last night, plundered nine different families of an original member, plundered nine different communities of a singular member. An entire people are poorer for his action. The flag that Roof embraced, which many South Carolinians embrace, does not stand in opposition to this act—it endorses it. [B][U]That the Confederate flag is the symbol of of white supremacists is evidenced by the very words of those who birthed it: [/U][/B] [B]Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth...[/B] This moral truth—“that the negro is not equal to the white man”—is exactly what animated Dylann Roof. More than any individual actor, in recent history, Roof honored his flag in exactly the manner it always demanded—with human sacrifice. [/QUOTE]

heritage not hate! ... despite the fact that they are synonymous.

I believe the confederate flag is mostly to honor the men and boys who died defending their homeland from the union, more than a symbol of holding confederate beliefs. Even back then slave owners were a huge minority, and I doubt your average southerner back then was well connected enough to be political. I'm sure most had no idea why they were really fighting. Sad Not really defending its presence just playing doubles advocate

...Jesus christ, that was powerful.

If you're going to get upset about the flag, we should talk about like, Mississippi. The [I]state flag[/I] [t]data:image/png;base64,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[/t]

[QUOTE=Perfumly;48024482]I believe the confederate flag is mostly to honor the men and boys who died defending their homeland from the union, more than a symbol of holding confederate beliefs. Even back then slave owners were a huge minority, and I doubt your average southerner back then was well connected enough to be political. I'm sure most had no idea why they were really fighting. Sad Not really defending its presence just playing doubles advocate[/QUOTE] Different perspectives I would say. Many Southerners probably see it that, and many probably also see it as defiance to the government that stopped them from owning people.

[QUOTE=Perfumly;48024482]I believe the confederate flag is mostly to honor the men and boys who died defending their homeland from the union, more than a symbol of holding confederate beliefs. Even back then slave owners were a huge minority, and I doubt your average southerner back then was well connected enough to be political. I'm sure most had no idea why they were really fighting. Sad Not really defending its presence just playing doubles advocate[/QUOTE] As someone who lives in South Carolina, I'm not entirely sure how I feel about this issue. A lot of me wants them to take it down, but at the same time it is part of our history and the confederacy wasn't entirely about slavery. We had a similar issue a few months ago, where Clemson University had a building named after a slave owner and many students wanted the building's name changed. But Clemson stepped in and said "we understand how you feel, but trying to hide away the past isn't good, we're keeping the name. Its part of Clemson's heritage even if it was rocky."

[QUOTE=Perfumly;48024482]I believe the confederate flag is mostly to honor the men and boys who died defending their homeland from the union, more than a symbol of holding confederate beliefs. Even back then slave owners were a huge minority, and I doubt your average southerner back then was well connected enough to be political. I'm sure most had no idea why they were really fighting. Sad Not really defending its presence just playing doubles advocate[/QUOTE] The chief, defining factor that drove the south away was disputes over slavery. The North was starting to say "stop doing that," while the South wanted to keep doing that. [editline]22nd June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Rich209;48024529]As someone who lives in South Carolina, I'm not entirely sure how I feel about this issue. A lot of me wants them to take it down, but at the same time it is part of our history and the confederacy wasn't entirely about slavery. We had a similar issue a few months ago, where Clemson University had a building named after a slave owner and many students wanted the building's name changed. But Clemson stepped in and said "we understand how you feel, but trying to hide away the past isn't good, we're keeping the name. Its part of Clemson's heritage even if it was rocky."[/QUOTE] Bullshit. There's a difference between hiding the past and glorifying it.

[QUOTE=Perfumly;48024482]I believe the confederate flag is mostly to honor the men and boys who died defending their homeland from the union, more than a symbol of holding confederate beliefs. Even back then slave owners were a huge minority, and I doubt your average southerner back then was well connected enough to be political. I'm sure most had no idea why they were really fighting. Sad Not really defending its presence just playing doubles advocate[/QUOTE] I don't get this whole "honoring people who defend their homeland", what's so honorable about defending a despicable way of living just to keep your extremely one-sided and outdated economy running?

[QUOTE=ThaBoss;48024550]I don't get this whole "honoring people who defend their homeland", what's so honorable about defending a despicable way of living just to keep your extremely one-sided and outdated economy running?[/QUOTE] As stated, the majority of southerners were not slave owners - and again - many were not fighting for political ideals. The union used some pretty brutal tactics against the confederate states that harmed not only soldiers but also a lot of civilians. Have some empathy, you think a 14 year old boy on the front line was thinking "oh man I can't wait to kill these Union soldiers so I can own all of the niggers"

[QUOTE=ThaBoss;48024550]I don't get this whole "honoring people who defend their homeland", what's so honorable about defending a despicable way of living just to keep your extremely one-sided and outdated economy running?[/QUOTE] If I where alive the time period, and saw/heard what Union soldiers where doing to the cities of the South, I would likely fight against the people destroying my homeland.

We seriously need to get rid of the Confederate flag, i bet you would be pissed off if you where a black guy walking around a town where the town hall is flying the Confederate flag. In other words, the guys are flying the flag of the people who wanted to keep you as slaves.

[QUOTE=Rich209;48024529]As someone who lives in South Carolina, I'm not entirely sure how I feel about this issue. A lot of me wants them to take it down, but at the same time it is part of our history and the confederacy wasn't entirely about slavery. We had a similar issue a few months ago, where Clemson University had a building named after a slave owner and many students wanted the building's name changed. But Clemson stepped in and said "we understand how you feel, but trying to hide away the past isn't good, we're keeping the name. Its part of Clemson's heritage even if it was rocky."[/QUOTE] the problem with that is that naming a building or a road or something after somebody is supposed to be a way to honour and commemorate them. if they were to do something like have pictures of slaves and slave owners in the building, or some sort of plaque in the lobby that chronicles the history of the building and what it used to be named... I don't think anyone would complain about that, and that would be a reasonable way to keep the history intact.

The confederacy flag, despite it's "original" use, has now turned into a symbol for racist I can't find the sources but I've heard that neo-nazi's in Germany use the confederacy flag as an alternative to the Nazi flags because of that sort of material being outlawed To me I feel the flag needs to go down and Mississippi needs to change it

People still own slaves, the cost is just $8 an hour instead of three meals and a place to sleep. And now it's all inclusive in terms of race. What is $8 an hour to someone who makes literally hundreds of millions of dollars a year? We're closer to living in the feudal age economically than we have been in a very long time

[QUOTE=Perfumly;48024482]I believe the confederate flag is mostly to honor the men and boys who died defending their homeland from the union, more than a symbol of holding confederate beliefs. Even back then slave owners were a huge minority, and I doubt your average southerner back then was well connected enough to be political. I'm sure most had no idea why they were really fighting. Sad Not really defending its presence just playing doubles advocate[/QUOTE] Still the Confederate flag represents a country built on the idea that white men are superior and others must be subjegated, its in their founding documents, it may be heritage but its as bad as nazi Germany's flag in that they both were nations built on the notion that one race is superior to all others [editline]22nd June 2015[/editline] And that's before its been used as a symbol for racial hate groups that followed the civil war

[QUOTE=fruxodaily;48024612]The confederacy flag, despite it's "original" use, has now turned into a symbol for racist I can't find the sources but I've heard that neo-nazi's in Germany use the confederacy flag as an alternative to the Nazi flags because of that sort of material being outlawed To me I feel the flag needs to go down and Mississippi needs to change it[/QUOTE] That is largely incorrect. Most German NeoNazis would use a German flag to show their advanced nationalism and "love" of their country. Not some foreign flag. Specifically a foreign flag from a nation they believed ruined Germany German NeoNazis tend to use the Imperial German flag or a Prussian flag [T]http://www.germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/images/2836676.jpg[/T]

[QUOTE=Sableye;48024618]Still the Confederate flag represents a country built on the idea that white men are superior and others must be subjegated, its in their founding documents, it may be heritage but its as bad as nazi Germany's flag in that they both were nations built on the notion that one race is superior to all others[/QUOTE] Is subjugation of the poor by the rich any better? because that's what our current flag stands for. It's odd how violently people oppose physical slavery but allow a much more cunning form of the same song and dance continue unchecked.

[QUOTE=Perfumly;48024581]As stated, the majority of southerners were not slave owners - and again - many were not fighting for political ideals. The union used some pretty brutal tactics against the confederate states that harmed not only soldiers but also a lot of civilians. Have some empathy, you think a 14 year old boy on the front line was thinking "oh man I can't wait to kill these Union soldiers so I can own all of the niggers"[/QUOTE] The average Confederate soldier (or Union for that matter) knew perfectly well what they were fighting for, the vast majority of soldiers on both sides were (at first) eager volunteers. Sure a lot of the confederates joined to assert the independence of states and whatnot but that doesn't change the fact that the confederacy's main reason for secession was to keep slavery in place. Except for Sherman's insane march what the Union did during the war was not particularly different from how wars were fought in that era, had the Confederacy been more successful they would have probably been just as destructive.

[QUOTE=EdvardSchnitz;48024628]That is largely incorrect. Most German NeoNazis would use a German flag to show their advanced nationalism and "love" of their country. Not some foreign flag. Specifically a foreign flag from a nation they believed ruined Germany German NeoNazis tend to use the Imperial German flag or a Prussian flag [T]http://www.germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/images/2836676.jpg[/T][/QUOTE] Sorry, someone must've been telling me something incorrect. Still, I've seen the confederacy flag around here and I know exactly why it's there. There's little to no Americans who live in this town and there's not a flag that says we hate non-whites more than that

[QUOTE=ThaBoss;48024642]The average Confederate soldier (or Union for that matter) knew perfectly well what they were fighting for, the vast majority of soldiers on both sides were (at first) eager volunteers. Sure a lot of the confederates joined to assert the independence of states and whatnot but that doesn't change the fact that the confederacy's main reason for secession was to keep slavery in place. Except for Sherman's insane march what the Union did during the war was not particularly different from how wars were fought in that era, had the Confederacy been more successful they would have probably been just as destructive.[/QUOTE] I don't disagree with the confederacy being just as destructful if they were successful. you're kind of nitpicking. All I'm saying is I doubt the people in charge of a city with a massive black population put the confederate flag there to express themselves as white supremacists. If history went the other way I would be sipping on some coffee brought to me by my manservant and defending a union flag in the north.

Why does a flag fucking matter? It's a flag. It's a street name. It's a bunch of irrelevant shit that has no meaning to the actual crime. Seriously, you wanna know why he went batshit? Go read his manifesto. His entire reasoning was he was upset with how things were being handled with the recent protests and riots, and how he felt that African Americans were becoming violent for no other reason then being violent. That's it. But no, it's gotta have some secret meaning! He was a suboxone addict! He did methadone! He likes Rhodesia and had a Confederate flag! All this type of stuff is dredged up because people want to make some narrative for their beliefs, and it's sickening. Nine people died. It's a tragedy. Heads need to roll for why this happened, namely why a 4473 didn't prevent this young man from getting a firearm or why he wasn't being watched after having a previous conviction for drug manufacturing. I cannot understand why though, just why... Why do people need to push these ridiculous narratives instead of taking the bull by it's horns and dealing with the actual problems. I swear, it's the blind leading the blind.

I wonder if a sizable portion of people who boast the Confederate Flag possess subtle and hidden racist beliefs, but are also among the same people who are quick to point out that it is has nothing to do with racism or supremacy.

[QUOTE=Perfumly;48024658]I don't disagree with the confederacy being just as destructful if they were successful. you're kind of nitpicking. All I'm saying is I doubt the people in charge of a city with a massive black population put the confederate flag there to express themselves as white supremacists. If history went the other way I would be sipping on some coffee brought to me by my manservant and defending a union flag in the north.[/QUOTE] I never said they were white supremacists, I just find the idea of honoring a black page in your country's history rather bizarre.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;48024674]Why does a flag fucking matter? It's a flag. It's a street name. It's a bunch of irrelevant shit that has no meaning to the actual crime. Seriously, you wanna know why he went batshit? Go read his manifesto. His entire reasoning was he was upset with how things were being handled with the recent protests and riots, and how he felt that African Americans were becoming violent for no other reason then being violent. That's it. But no, it's gotta have some secret meaning! He was a suboxone addict! He did methadone! He likes Rhodesia and had a Confederate flag! All this type of stuff is dredged up because people want to make some narrative for their beliefs, and it's sickening. Nine people died. It's a tragedy. Heads need to roll for why this happened, namely why a 4473 didn't prevent this young man from getting a firearm or why he wasn't being watched after having a previous conviction for drug manufacturing. I cannot understand why though, just why... Why do people need to push these ridiculous narratives instead of taking the bull by it's horns and dealing with the actual problems. I swear, it's the blind leading the blind.[/QUOTE] Well done you did exactly the "it's not racism it's a crazy weirdo and terrorism" apologies the second half of the monologue foresaw. Looks like you didn't even read it to me.

[QUOTE=Killuah;48024734]Well done you did exactly the "it's not racism it's a crazy weirdo and terrorism" apologies the second half of the monologue foresaw. Looks like you didn't even read it to me.[/QUOTE] No one said he wasn't racist I just think he was saying he wasn't a confederate soldier

[QUOTE=Perfumly;48024750]No one said he wasn't racist I just think he was saying he wasn't a confederate soldier[/QUOTE] [quote]I heard someone on the news say “Tragedy has visited this church.” This wasn’t a tornado. This was a racist. This was a guy with a Rhodesia badge on his sweater. You know, so the idea that — you know, I hate to even use this pun, but this one is black and white. There’s no nuance here.[/quote] [quote]Nine people died. It's a tragedy. Heads need to roll for why this happened, namely why a 4473 didn't prevent this young man from getting a firearm or why he wasn't being watched after having a previous conviction for drug manufacturing. I cannot understand why though, just why... Why do people need to push these ridiculous narratives instead of taking the bull by it's horns and dealing with the actual problems[/quote] I didn't say that anyone said it wasn't racist. Just that pointing out that the main problem is racism is important here.

I think there's probably a problem better to work on that lies a little deeper than the racism. I couldn't tell you what it is, but racism isn't something someone is typically born with, and it's obvious by his pictures that he was messed up mentally.

It still did represent an era of a state that supported racism though, even if partially. Just saying "wellll it only counted for <10% of the South" does not make it okay.

[QUOTE=Perfumly;48024614]People still own slaves, the cost is just $8 an hour instead of three meals and a place to sleep.[/QUOTE] I feel like you're critically understating the victim cost of actual slavery. I work a pretty back breaking job out in the hot outdoors, but the advantage is that I can leave if I'd like. If I were liable to be beaten or hanged if I left my job I'd understand your point more.