US Marines recommended for trial for urination video - Polidicks

[quote] [B]Two US Marines have been referred for trial by courts martial for a video of troops urinating on Taliban corpses in Afghanistan, the US military says.[/B] Staff sergeants Joseph Chamblin and Edward Deptola are also charged with failure to report or stop misconduct by junior Marines, including random firing of weapons. Three other Marines were disciplined in August for their role in the clip. It surfaced online in January this year. In addition, the two non-commissioned officers, who are assigned to the Third Battalion, Second Marine Regiment at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina, are alleged to have posed for photographs with human casualties. [B]Further charges[/B] The incidents are believed to have taken place during a counter-insurgency operation in Afghanistan's Helmand Province on or around 27 July 2011, the Marine Corps said. The two Marines are also facing charges for other alleged misconduct on the same operation. They are accused of being derelict in their duties by not supervising junior Marines, failing to ensure they were wearing personal protective gear and failing to report the negligent discharge of a grenade launcher. The three other servicemen who were disciplined in August pleaded guilty: one to "urinating on the body of a deceased Taliban soldier", another to posing for a photo with human casualties, and a third for lying to investigators. In the video, someone can be heard saying: "Have a good day, buddy." Their identities have not been revealed and the Marine Corps said it would provide details of disciplinary actions against them at a later date. The footage surfaced at a sensitive time for US-Afghan relations, as American officials attempted to bring the Taliban to the negotiating table. One month later, violent protests broke out in Afghanistan after it emerged US troops had incinerated a number of Korans. The holy books had been confiscated from prisoners, amid claims they were being used to pass secret messages. The ensuing unrest claimed 30 lives and saw two US troops shot dead.[/quote] [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19708371]BBC UK[/url]

Oh c'mon, we don't need this shit right now. We already have a Religious-Nut-Job case going on right now and we certainly don't need the damn Taliban in this. Besides this happened over a year ago, just forget and move on.

[QUOTE=GlebGuy;37787362]Oh c'mon, we don't need this shit right now. We already have a Religious-Nut-Job case going on right now and we certainly don't need the damn Taliban in this. Besides this happened over a year ago, just forget and move on.[/QUOTE] So we shouldn't court marshal these pieces of shit because it happened a year ago?

[QUOTE=GlebGuy;37787362]Oh c'mon, we don't need this shit right now. We already have a Religious-Nut-Job case going on right now and we certainly don't need the damn Taliban in this. Besides this happened over a year ago, just forget and move on.[/QUOTE] what they did is pretty unwarranted and stupid and they should be held accountable and responsible for what they've done

[QUOTE=Ownederd;37787519]what they did is pretty unwarranted and stupid and they should be held accountable and responsible for what they've done[/QUOTE] Point taken, sorry.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;37787420]So we shouldn't court marshal these pieces of shit because it happened a year ago?[/QUOTE] I wouldn't call them pieces of shit, I mean what they did should be reprimanded but they where not some horrible monsters.

God, if geopolitics were highschool, we'd be the football players and the taliban or whoever we're invading at the moment would be the goth/emo kids who eventually brings a gun to school.

[QUOTE=Ownederd;37787519]what they did is pretty unwarranted and stupid and they should be held accountable and responsible for what they've done[/QUOTE] I don't think anyone in the normal world can really judge their actions in a war zone appropriately. Think of the immense psychological impact of killing someone would have on you. Think about how the Taliban are trying to kill them. Every day they have an increased risk of of dying over people in the "civilised world." I'm not saying urinating on the corpse of the deceased is acceptable in the NORMAL world, but you can't judge actions properly unless you've been through the same psychological experience as them. While it is disrespectful and abhorrent, I don't see how we can jump on the moral high-horse when we're not under constant pressure of death. War is shitty, actions like these shouldn't happen, but punishing them over an experience that was likely mentally damaging to them isn't the right approach, in my opinion.

[QUOTE=CMB Unit 01;37787784]I don't think anyone in the normal world can really judge their actions in a war zone appropriately. Think of the immense psychological impact of killing someone would have on you. Think about how the Taliban are trying to kill them. Every day they have an increased risk of of dying over people in the "civilised world." I'm not saying urinating on the corpse of the deceased is acceptable in the NORMAL world, but you can't judge actions properly unless you've been through the same psychological experience as them. While it is disrespectful and abhorrent, I don't see how we can jump on the moral high-horse when we're not under constant pressure of death. War is shitty, actions like these shouldn't happen, but punishing them over an experience that was likely mentally damaging to them isn't the right approach, in my opinion.[/QUOTE] i'm pretty sure they're still expected to act professionally; tihs is why most armies have extensive mental evalutions for possible new soldiers this is grounds for legal trial

[QUOTE=Ownederd;37787999]i'm pretty sure they're still expected to act professionally; tihs is why most armies have extensive mental evalutions for possible new soldiers this is grounds for legal trial[/QUOTE] I get the whole idea of acting professionally, but with the amount of stress in a combat zone they need some sort of release. I'm not saying its okay what they did, but judging their actions from a civil standpoint when referring to an uncivil situation doesn't really work. I don't know, I just think its hard to judge from our point of view. [b]Edit:[/b] Mental evaluations are only going to go so far, you can't predict if/when a soldier's going to crack out in the field when there's bullets whizzing by his head.

Who cares? So they pissed on some dead insurgents... big deal.

[QUOTE=MedicmanV500;37788622]Who cares? So they pissed on some dead insurgents... big deal.[/QUOTE] "hi i have trouble figuring out what social norms mean because i'm socially challenged"

[QUOTE=MedicmanV500;37788622]Who cares? So they pissed on some dead insurgents... big deal.[/QUOTE] it's pretty disrespectful and obscene [QUOTE=JerryK;37788906]"hi i have trouble figuring out what social norms mean because i'm socially challenged"[/QUOTE] wow mean just call him out for it dude

[QUOTE=CMB Unit 01;37788082]I get the whole idea of acting professionally, but with the amount of stress in a combat zone they need some sort of release. I'm not saying its okay what they did, but judging their actions from a civil standpoint when referring to an uncivil situation doesn't really work. I don't know, I just think its hard to judge from our point of view. [b]Edit:[/b] Mental evaluations are only going to go so far, you can't predict if/when a soldier's going to crack out in the field when there's bullets whizzing by his head.[/QUOTE] it's pretty clear that the mental evaluations have a shitty standard when stuff like this happens way too often

[QUOTE=JerryK;37788931]it's pretty clear that the mental evaluations have a shitty standard when stuff like this happens way too often[/QUOTE] US Military isn't really known for mental evaluation of recruits Or rehabilitation of veterans, since we're on that topic.

[QUOTE=Murkrow;37788946]US Military isn't really known for mental evaluation of recruits [B]Or rehabilitation of veterans[/B], since we're on that topic.[/QUOTE] this is sadly the case with one of my cousins - he's gotten no professional help from human services . . . fuck :(

not only did they lay some lead in them, they then pissed on their corpses fucking balling

[QUOTE=Ownederd;37788982]this is sadly the case with one of my cousins - he's gotten no professional help from human services . . . fuck :([/QUOTE] that disgusts me, there's no reason why our government can't help the veterans the politicians on both sides love to chant about how they love the soldiers but once a soldier returns from war they get no help

[QUOTE=JerryK;37788906]"hi i have trouble figuring out what social norms mean because i'm socially challenged"[/QUOTE] I'm not saying this is right, but a lot of atrocities happen in war, some far worse than this incident. The taliban commit worse acts... like killing young girls for wearing makeup or attending school. I just don't get why people are SO hung up on this. And I'm not socially challenged, I don't know how you can presume to know that, you don't know who I am. Don't project your insecurities unto me.

[QUOTE=Murkrow;37788946]US Military isn't really known for mental evaluation of recruits[/QUOTE] And the Marines are especially bad about that sort of stuff; when I originally heard this story, I wasn't surprised they were responsible. They've been so desperate for recruits since the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq that they have [url=http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2009/01/us_marines_orgy_palace_of_ston.php]seriously lowered their standards and gone to great lengths (including helping recruits to falsify their academic records and cheat drug tests) to get as many people in as they can[/url]. These are unfortunate problems that need to be resolved unless we want more incidents like this one coming back to hurt us and our reputation in the future.

[QUOTE=JerryK;37789003]that disgusts me, there's no reason why our government can't help the veterans the politicians on both sides love to chant about how they love the soldiers but once a soldier returns from war they get no help[/QUOTE] What the fuck? "they get no help" I mean I agree the troops get less than they deserve from the VA but [B]no help at all[/B]? Hand me some of your hashish bro, cause I want what you're smoking! All aboard JerryK's crazy train!

[QUOTE=MedicmanV500;37789176]I'm not saying this is right, but a lot of atrocities happen in war, some far worse than this incident. The taliban commit worse acts... like killing young girls for wearing makeup or attending school. I just don't get why people are SO hung up on this. And I'm not socially challenged, I don't know how you can presume to know that, you don't know who I am. Don't project your insecurities unto me.[/QUOTE] what are you even saying dude?????? [QUOTE=Disotrtion;37789301]What the fuck? "they get no help" I mean I agree the troops get less than they deserve from the VA but [B]no help at all[/B]? Hand me some of your hashish bro, cause I want what you're smoking! All aboard JerryK's crazy train![/QUOTE] why are you riding your own dick in a attempt to be funny?

[QUOTE=LunchboxOfDoom;37789294]And the Marines are especially bad about that sort of stuff; when I originally heard this story, I wasn't surprised they were responsible. They've been so desperate for recruits since the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq that they have [url=http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2009/01/us_marines_orgy_palace_of_ston.php]seriously lowered their standards and gone to great lengths (including helping recruits to falsify their academic records and cheat drug tests) to get as many people in as they can[/url]. These are unfortunate problems that need to be resolved unless we want more incidents like this one coming back to hurt us and our reputation in the future.[/QUOTE] you do know that those limited studies are of 2,000 [B]female marines[/B] also that may be the single most fucking stupid article I ever read "yeah so there's 2,000 female marines that are all sluts btw the Marine Corps did that on purpose" while the actual study concludes none of this. its true if you really want to get in the Marines and you aren't medically disqualified, or have a particularly large rap sheet, the recruiters will do almost anything to get you in including falsifying grades and stuff. [editline]24th September 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Ownederd;37789316]what are you even saying dude?????? why are you riding your own dick in a attempt to be funny?[/QUOTE] not trying to be funny where do you see humor all I see is pity and ridicule

[QUOTE=Disotrtion;37789398]you do know that those limited studies are of 2,000 [B]female marines[/B] also that may be the single most fucking stupid article I ever read "yeah so there's 2,000 female marines that are all sluts btw the Marine Corps did that on purpose" while the actual study concludes none of this. its true if you really want to get in the Marines and you aren't medically disqualified, or have a particularly large rap sheet, the recruiters will do almost anything to get you in including falsifying grades and stuff. [editline]24th September 2012[/editline] not trying to be funny where do you see humor all I see is pity and ridicule[/QUOTE] you're trying to be witty while all you're doing is making yourself look like a unsavory jerk ???

[QUOTE=Ownederd;37789429]you're trying to be witty while all you're doing is making yourself look like a unsavory jerk ???[/QUOTE] welcome to FP and what you've been here since 06? nice try. JerryK is muy loco if he thinks we do nothing, I worked at the VA for a bit and yeah they have lots of problems (bureaucratic bullshit for starters) but saying they do nothing is insulting and a discredit to the people who work to take care of the servicemembers.

[QUOTE=Disotrtion;37789480][B]welcome to FP and what you've been here since 06? nice try.[/B] JerryK is muy loco if he thinks we do nothing, I worked at the VA for a bit and yeah they have lots of problems (bureaucratic bullshit for starters) but saying they do nothing is insulting and a discredit to the people who work to take care of the servicemembers.[/QUOTE] what does this even mean dude? just because it's on facepunch its excused because you say so? ?????????????????????

[QUOTE=Ownederd;37789533]what does this even mean dude? just because it's on facepunch its excused because you say so? ?????????????????????[/QUOTE] don't tell me you have noticed the snarky back and forth commenting that is common place here in SH. do i need to draw you a diagram?

[QUOTE=Disotrtion;37789398]you do know that those limited studies are of 2,000 [B]female marines[/B][/quote] It's a study conducted by the University of California's San Francisco Medical Center examining the cases of 2,157 female recruits and both their mental and physical health. [url=http://www.womensmemorial.org/PDFs/StatsonWIM.pdf]There are just over 13,000 women enlisted in the Marine Corps[/url], so that's quite a significant percentage. [QUOTE=Disotrtion;37789398]also that may be the single most fucking stupid article I ever read "yeah so there's 2,000 female marines that are all sluts btw the Marine Corps did that on purpose" while the actual study concludes none of this.[/quote] The study concluded that the standards the Marine Corps has for female recruits are very low. It found that, of the women they examined, they were twice as likely as those who were not in the military to be infected with venereal diseases by having unprotected sex with male recruits, and that they were prone to behaviors which would likely cause them to only get sicker, many of which they first engaged in during high school. It also found that the majority of them perceived sex was very enjoyable under the influence of alcohol and were heavy alcohol and drug users before entering training. Most of their female recruits infected are found in rural areas. You can read the full study with all its statistical evidence and conclusions for yourself [url=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19055182]here[/url]. The point was that the Marines have low standards for who they take in, and it's no secret why: they need recruits. Their numbers have been down since the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan; both the article and the UCSF study make note of this fact. [QUOTE=Disotrtion;37789398]its true if you really want to get in the Marines and you aren't medically disqualified, or have a particularly large rap sheet, the recruiters will do almost anything to get you in including falsifying grades and stuff.[/quote] And that's a serious problem, as serious as the dysfunctional types of people they're taking into their ranks in the first place. Also as serious as the fact that they apparently lack proper mental and physical health evaluation procedures. This sort of shit reflects extremely poorly upon us as a country and as a people. We need to do as much as is possible to try and prevent it. That not only involves more closely scrutinizing whom is accepted into the military in the first place, but also what kinds of mental and physical health checks they're put through.

[QUOTE]A significant proportion of young women entering the Marine Corps present with STIs and/or recent sexual behavior that put them at risk for acquiring STIs despite high group means for prevention skills. Deficiencies in STI/human immunodeficiency virus knowledge and motivation to reduce risk (denoted by negative attitudes toward condom use and acceptance of the connection between sex and substance use) are possible targets for intervention.[/QUOTE] yeah. no. all I see is the abstract which concludes this. and this is mentioned [QUOTE]Recruits with the highest STI risk scores were younger, single, had high STI knowledge, less positive condom attitudes, perceptions of higher STI risk, perceived that sex is more likely and enjoyable under the influence of alcohol, and were heavy alcohol and drug users before recruit training entry.[/QUOTE] its a medical study that deals exclusively with STI's among female Marines, no where does it mention any of the conclusions you've pulled out of your ass like [QUOTE]Most of their female recruits are found in rural areas.[/QUOTE] actually it says this, very different from the generalization you made of all women in the USMC: [QUOTE]Recruits diagnosed with STIs had higher STI risk scores, had last sexual partners who were non-Caucasian, and resided in rural locations before recruit training entry.[/QUOTE] or [QUOTE]The study concluded that the standards the Marine Corps has for female recruits are very low.[/QUOTE] uh no it doesn't conclude anything of the sort btw its based off of data from [B]1999-2000[/B] so over a decade old, and clearly out of date considering the wars in 2001 and 2003 have drastically changed the military since then. [QUOTE]That not only involves more closely scrutinizing whom is accepted into the military in the first place, but also what kinds of mental and physical health checks they're put through.[/QUOTE] Agree with the mental stuff, but you clearly never heard of MEPS. i don't even think you read the abstract, and i doubt you even read the full study.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;37787420]So we shouldn't court marshal these pieces of shit because it happened a year ago?[/QUOTE] Court Marshal? Nah. Reprimand, sure, as our armed forces are supposed to hold themselves to the highest of standards. Urinating on the corpses of what are essentially animals isn't really something to be tried over, and possibly face jail/prison time