Climate-change-denier Apple shareholder: Ditch those environmental initiatives, they don't make prof - Polidicks

[t]http://asset0.cbsistatic.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim2/2014/01/24/App_timcook1year_620x433_610x426.jpg[/t] [I]Choke on it.[/I] [URL="http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57619770-37/tim-cook-advises-climate-change-deniers-to-get-out-of-apple-stock/"]Tim Cook advises climate change deniers to get out of Apple stock[/URL] [QUOTE]In his job as Apple CEO, Tim Cook is mostly known for having a demeanor that's in some ways antithetical to that of Steve Jobs. Instead of bombast and bold claims, Cook's soothing Southern-tinged speech and steely temperament have marked him as a man whose head could be nothing but level. That is, unless you're a shareholder who thinks climate change is bogus. At Apple's annual shareholder meeting Friday, Cook shot down the suggestion from a conservative, Washington, D.C.-based think tank that Apple give up on environmental initiatives that don't contribute to the company's bottom line. The organization, the National Center for Public Policy Research (NCPPR), hasn't taken too kindly to Apple's increasing reliance on green energy, nor Cook's hiring of Lisa Jackson, the former head of the Environmental Protection Agency, to spearhead sustainability efforts for the iPhone-maker. And NCPPR General Counsel Justin Danhof said as much in a statement issued to Apple ahead of the meeting. ... "We do a lot of things for reasons besides profit motive," Cook said. "We want to leave the world better than we found it."[/QUOTE] Say what you like about Apple, but they don't take shit from anyone unless the justice system makes them.

Apple is amazing in that they have enough money to buy themselves but they choose not to in order to play the system; with themselves.

[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;44095142]Apple is amazing in that they have enough money to buy themselves but they choose not to in order to play the system; with themselves.[/QUOTE] Apple is actually paying out to shareholders by doing stock buybacks that, if maintained at the current rate if everything else in the system remained fixed, would take Apple private again by the early 2020s.

[quote]Cook said. "We want to leave the world better than we found it."[/quote]What about those workers in China producing your products?

[QUOTE=Killer900;44095212]What about those workers in China producing your products?[/QUOTE] "Uhh, they were like that when we found them."

[QUOTE=Killer900;44095212]What about those workers in China producing your products?[/QUOTE] For the most part, the production efforts of companies that do a lot of overseas production end up tremendously helping the people in that area because they were actually worse off before. Foxconn is terrible and all but you can't deny that people would die without the money they got from such places. Yeah they need to be way better than they are but it's not like the alternative is better, which is the bigger problem

[QUOTE=Killer900;44095212]What about those workers in China producing your products?[/QUOTE] Apple is pretty much the ONLY company trying to move manufacturing back to North America. An iMac you buy may in fact read assembled in the United States on the bottom as some of them are assembled there now, and every single Mac Pro is made in the United States. Apple is also investing in factories to produce all their glass in the US. The current system of products being made in China at places like Foxconn is hardly optimal but Apple is one of many clients and the only one who seems to be trying to change things.

[QUOTE=Kaabii;44095310]Apple is pretty much the ONLY company trying to move manufacturing back to North America. An iMac you buy may in fact read assembled in the United States on the bottom as some of them are assembled there now, and every single Mac Pro is made in the United States. Apple is also investing in factories to produce all their glass in the US. The current system of products being made in China at places like Foxconn is hardly optimal but Apple is one of many clients and the only one who seems to be trying to change things.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbWOQWw1wkM[/url]

[QUOTE=Kaabii;44095310]Apple is pretty much the ONLY company trying to move manufacturing back to North America. An iMac you buy may in fact read assembled in the United States on the bottom as some of them are assembled there now, and every single Mac Pro is made in the United States. Apple is also investing in factories to produce all their glass in the US. The current system of products being made in China at places like Foxconn is hardly optimal but Apple is one of many clients and the only one who seems to be trying to change things.[/QUOTE]While that is good to hear, I don't understand why they don't just get robots to make the phones and tablets instead of people.

Don't know if this is just greenwashing, but Cook has shown signs that he's not a complete psychopath, unlike the rest of his peers. At any rate, I'm glad for Lisa Jackson. She really got shortchanged during her stint at EPA.

[QUOTE=Killer900;44095408]While that is good to hear, I don't understand why they don't just get robots to make the phones and tablets instead of people.[/QUOTE] Because people are currently cheaper

[QUOTE=KingPurge;44095309]For the most part, the production efforts of companies that do a lot of overseas production end up tremendously helping the people in that area because they were actually worse off before. Foxconn is terrible and all but you can't deny that people would die without the money they got from such places. Yeah they need to be way better than they are but it's not like the alternative is better, which is the bigger problem[/QUOTE] Never mind the merits or demerits of outsourcing; it's the sheer hypocrisy of 'free trade' that gets me. Apparently, it's fine to outsource workers, but highly paid professionals like doctors and CEOs must be protected at all costs... Makes absolutely no sense, and lays waste to any claims that we have a free market.

[QUOTE=Killer900;44095408]While that is good to hear, I don't understand why they don't just get robots to make the phones and tablets instead of people.[/QUOTE] Well the Mac Pro line is heavily automated so in a sense they are moving toward just using robots to make things. It takes time and money though, but maybe in a decade we'll see things being produced that way. That opens up a big can of worms about jobs and such though, and it's not really a debate I'm knowledgeable enough about to get involved in.

[QUOTE=Killer900;44095408]While that is good to hear, I don't understand why they don't just get robots to make the phones and tablets instead of people.[/QUOTE] do you think things would really be better for unemployed workers? i get that their environment is terrible, but would this be what saves them? like, really?

[QUOTE=ThreePennyJim;44095489]Never mind the merits or demerits of outsourcing; it's the sheer hypocrisy of 'free trade' that gets me. Apparently, it's fine to outsource workers, but highly paid professionals like doctors and CEOs must be protected at all costs... Makes absolutely no sense, and lays waste to any claims that we have a free market.[/QUOTE] The language barrier is a [B]HUGE[/B] problem with professional positions. A good example is that my brother almost died because of a doctor mistreating him because of that. Apparently the language barrier caused Appendicitis to be labeled as bladder infection. Which lead to a burst appendix, and that is something people [B]DIED[/B] from until the age of antibiotics. And even then the treatment procedure for that is slow and painful. So yeah, lets keep professional positions local, less that can go worng.

THe problem with Chinese workers' horrible conditions is that you can say that the price would be driven up if they had better pay and conditions, but you could easily make the conditions and pay better to a certain extent without raising the prices if the factory would accept making very slightly less obscene profits. Maybe enough to make them stop trying to fucking kill themselves over their incredibly shit lives.

[QUOTE=O Cheerios O;44095587]The language barrier is a [B]HUGE[/B] problem with professional positions. A good example is that my brother almost died because of a doctor mistreating him because of that. Apparently the language barrier caused Appendicitis to be labeled as bladder infection. Which lead to a burst appendix, and that is something people [B]DIED[/B] from until the age of antibiotics. And even then the treatment procedure for that is slow and painful. So yeah, lets keep professional positions local, less that can go worng.[/QUOTE] Because a language certification program would be so difficult to institute, rofl. Many of the budding execs at Samsung, etc. are trained in the US and the UK. In countries like Japan, Korea and Taiwan, English is a mandatory subject in school. Most of the western world already speak English. Of all the things to nitpick about, language is pretty much last on the list. It's not as if potential execs can pass the gauntlet of interviews and background checks without some noticing that they can't speak the language.

Wow, this thread is really weird.

[QUOTE=proch;44095746]Wow, this thread is really weird.[/QUOTE] Everything's weird when you're stoned.

But it wore off since Friday

You know? its funny. I always heard people say that business never cared about ethics and just went for maximum profit. As I read from someone who was criticizing this socialist analogy of a camp trip: "Making money doesn't speak anything about the motives behind making more money. It is not necessarily something evil on its own nor something that should be fought against all the time" [QUOTE]"We do a lot of things for reasons besides profit motive," Cook said. "We want to leave the world better than we found it." [/QUOTE] I highly doubt it's a PR movement. I would never bet so much in a PR so as to fuck off a shareholder. [editline]2nd March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=ThreePennyJim;44095489]Never mind the merits or demerits of outsourcing; it's the sheer hypocrisy of 'free trade' that gets me. Apparently, it's fine to outsource workers, but highly paid professionals like doctors and CEOs must be protected at all costs... Makes absolutely no sense, and lays waste to any claims that we have a free market.[/QUOTE] Who said they must be protected at all costs? CEOs and other professionals who work in a country are usually from the same country -except in extreme circumstances where the guy either got very good connections or made his way up- because they know the language, they know the people and they how to behave in such market. If you put an Argentine who is 40 years old who only knows English and lived 40 years in Argentina at a top position in a Japanese company working IN japan...he is just gonna make fuck ups. No doubt. The director of Coca Cola here in Argentina, is not a American. Same goes for Cargill, who is Argentine. Hell, last time I heard, one of the tops at J&J of LATAM was a Colombian guy. [QUOTE]The language barrier is a HUGE problem with professional positions.[/QUOTE] THIS Just, fucking, this. My father who works in the service business has a huge, FUCKING HUGE, problem when dealing with Americans or British. He even hires me when he has meetings to work as a translator. [QUOTE]Because a language certification program would be so difficult to institute, rofl. Many of the budding execs at Samsung, etc. are trained in the US and the UK. In countries like Japan, Korea and Taiwan, English is a mandatory subject in school. Most of the western world already speak English. Of all the things to nitpick about, language is pretty much last on the list. It's not as if potential execs can pass the gauntlet of interviews and background checks without some noticing that they can't speak the language. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE]It's not as if potential execs can pass the gauntlet of interviews and background checks without some noticing that they can't speak the language.[/QUOTE] You would be surprised, believe me. And while we're there, how many american execs do canadian companies have and viceversa? Why they outsource call centres to india and not LATAM? Man, it's just a basic question of salaries, offer and demand. The moment foreign execs become cheaper -and cost/efficient- than american ones for working in American soil, we're gonna see the change. [QUOTE]You can't preach the value of outsourcing labour(not saying you are), which I'm sure is inconvenient for blue-collar Americans, then whine about some fucking language barrier.[/QUOTE] I don't preach the value of outsourcing labor if the country who gets the job doesn't see benefits in return. But you just can expect jobs to stay intact forever. I imagine people whined all the time when the first textile machines came up into the market -Luddites- but then other jobs and positions were created. It's true, maybe we require a now Ford alike for everyone to work, and you are right, we would -and I'm talking about any advanced industrialized country- be fucked in that case. And think the other way around, its inconvenient for American workers, but about those Asian workers? Or Argentine workers -in my fathers case-

[QUOTE]My father who works in the service business has a huge, FUCKING HUGE, problem when dealing with Americans or British. He even hires me when he has meetings to work as a translator. [/QUOTE] You know what else sucks? Indian call centers. [I][U]But that's just the invisible hand working, isn't it?[/U][/I] I'm applying that very same logic. Likewise, you can't apply that criticism to trade agreements like, say, the Can-US FTA, where the countries involved speak the same damned language. Are their doctors any worse than ours? Doubtful. That [I]you[/I] find it personally inconvenient is precisely the point I'm making. You can't preach the value of outsourcing labour(not saying you are), which I'm sure is inconvenient for blue-collar Americans, then whine about some fucking language barrier.

[QUOTE=Kaabii;44095310]Apple is pretty much the ONLY company trying to move manufacturing back to North America. An iMac you buy may in fact read assembled in the United States on the bottom as some of them are assembled there now, and every single Mac Pro is made in the United States. Apple is also investing in factories to produce all their glass in the US. The current system of products being made in China at places like Foxconn is hardly optimal but Apple is one of many clients and the only one who seems to be trying to change things.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Reds;44095599]THe problem with Chinese workers' horrible conditions is that you can say that the price would be driven up if they had better pay and conditions, but you could easily make the conditions and pay better to a certain extent without raising the prices if the factory would accept making very slightly less obscene profits. Maybe enough to make them stop trying to fucking kill themselves over their incredibly shit lives.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bkjmzEEQUlE#t=172"]Basically[/URL] [QUOTE=ThreePennyJim;44095409]Don't know if this is just greenwashing, but Cook has shown signs that he's not a complete psychopath, unlike the rest of his peers. At any rate, I'm glad for Lisa Jackson. She really got shortchanged during her stint at EPA.[/QUOTE] a SANE CEO? that's actually pretty crazy

[QUOTE=Killer900;44095212]What about those workers in China producing your products?[/QUOTE] well since cook took over he's actually been seriously trying to improve conditions and shift production to here, also foxcon their largest manufacturer is shifting to automation, jobs believed it couldn't be done so it wasn't worth his time to push it, but apple's parts supply network is starting to move back this way

Steve Jobs' #1 logistics guy is now running the show. I think we can safely expect to see more reform through various levels of the supply chain and in some of the fields that Jobs didn't give as much attention to because we was busy seeing the future.

[QUOTE=Sableye;44097458] jobs believed it couldn't be done so it wasn't worth his time to push it, but apple's parts supply network is starting to move back this way[/QUOTE] A man who many claim was a brilliant visionary said that something couldn't be done? Illusion shattered.

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;44100509]Steve Jobs' #1 logistics guy is now running the show. I think we can safely expect to see more reform through various levels of the supply chain and in some of the fields that Jobs didn't give as much attention to because we was busy seeing the future.[/QUOTE] What future?

[QUOTE=avincent;44106368]What future?[/QUOTE] I mean, the whole way up through his career at Apple; he was focused on his vision of the product he was working on, not so much the trail he was leaving behind him to get to it. Tim Cook's old job was to worry about that exact trail, both behind and ahead of his boss.