Utah Legislature goes for gold, silver as currency options - Polidicks

[quote]The Utah Legislature on Thursday passed a bill allowing gold and silver coins to be used as legal tender in the state — and for the value of their precious metal, not just the face value of the coins. State backers said they hope the move will help insulate Utah from a potential monetary slide as countries question the value of the dollar. Others, casting their eye nationwide, said it could spur a broader move by Congress or states to readopt a gold standard. "Utah, if the governor signs this particularly, they're going to change the national debate on monetary policy and get us back to basics," said Jeffrey Bell, policy director for Washington-based American Principles in Action. Mr. Bell has been in Utah to help shepherd the legislation through. Utah's bill allows stores to accept gold and silver coins as legal tender. It also exempts gold and silver transactions from the state's capital gains tax, though that does not shield exchanges from federal taxes. The legislation directs a state committee to look at whether Utah should recognize an official alternate form of legal tender which could become a path for creating a formal state gold standard. A spokeswoman for Gov. Gary R. Herbert, a Republican, said he has not yet taken a public stance on the bill. State Rep. Brad J. Galvez, the chief sponsor of the measure, said he views it as a preliminary step on the path toward securing Utah's business climate. "If the dollar continues to fall, what this will do will help stabilize the value of the dollar in Utah, so it helps stabilize the economy," Mr. Galvez, a Republican, said. While similar legislation has been proposed in nearly a dozen states, Mr. Galvez said that if Mr. Herbert signs his bill, Utah will be just the second state to official recognize the coins as legal tender. Colorado has recognized gold and silver for decades, he said. Opponents questioned why a state would need to come up with an alternative money system. According to the Deseret News, one lawmaker joked that the state should establish salt as legal tender, since Utah has so much of it. Other opponents said the state capital gains tax break could distort investing decisions and push people to choose gold and silver over other investments. Utah's move on gold comes at a time when states across the country are seeking ways to push back against the federal government on everything from environmental regulations to health care. But the instability of the U.S. dollar also has sent some states scrambling to try to come up with alternatives or to pass measures designed to spur federal action. In Virginia, Delegate Robert G. Marshall, a Republican, successfully pushed through a bill — not yet signed by the governor — that authorizes the state to mint gold, silver and platinum coins. He said that there is probably a good market for collectors who would prefer not to have to buy federally minted coins and said state-minted ones would create a backstop against inflation. "I'm looking at Congress, and I'm looking at what the Chinese are doing, and I don't have a lot of confidence in what's going on there," Mr. Marshall said. "This is one way where Virginia can help our citizens as a security hedge against the inflationary action of Congress." He also wrote a resolution authorizing a study on whether Virginia should adopt an alternate currency so it would not be dependent on Federal Reserve notes. That resolution did not pass. The U.S. was on the gold standard and then a gold-exchange standard for much of the 20th century, but President Nixon finally decoupled the U.S. money supply from gold in 1971. Many investors, though, continue to believe it holds value better than other investments. [/quote] [url]http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/mar/10/utah-legislature-goes-gold-silver-legal-tender/[/url] comedy gold

What the hell is going on? This, wisconsin, michigan, the tsunami and all those other bad news, along with all the protests going on. Maybe I'm just crazy and psycho, idk. EDIT: Give me boxes, or give me death! EDIT: You rated me agree/funny? YOU THINK YOUR FUNNY HUH? Punk.

This is actually a good thing, gold and silver will always be worth something, while pieces of paper might not be.

[QUOTE=lukepker;28547405]This is actually a good thing, gold and silver will always be worth something, while pieces of paper might not be.[/QUOTE] Finally, somebody who has a good head.

Will I also be able to break the coin in half to pay half of it's value?

[QUOTE=lukepker;28547405]gold and silver will always be worth something[/QUOTE] Nobody has ever actually explained to me why this is true. If people start hording gold and silver to use as currency then the value will plummet, will it not?

[QUOTE=Zeke129;28547537]Nobody has ever actually explained to me why this is true. If people start hording gold and silver to use as currency then the value will plummet, will it not?[/QUOTE] There isn't an a huge amount of gold and silver in the world, while paper, which quite literally grows on tree's, is high in supply.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;28547537]Nobody has ever actually explained to me why this is true. If people start hording gold and silver to use as currency then the value will plummet, will it not?[/QUOTE] Uh, it'd go UP if people start hoarding it, there isn't an unlimited supply of it.

[QUOTE=lukepker;28547405]This is actually a good thing, gold and silver will always be worth something, while pieces of paper might not be.[/QUOTE] Well then rate me dumbs, sorry, I'm just going crazy I guess. I deserve it. Though gold and silver are limited in supply, ya'nno?

[QUOTE=J!NX;28547589]Well then rate me dumbs, sorry, I'm just going crazy I guess. I deserve it. Though gold and silver are limited in supply, ya'nno?[/QUOTE] This stops people printing money so easily.

[QUOTE=lukepker;28547565]There isn't an a huge amount of gold and silver in the world, while paper, which quite literally grows on tree's, is high in supply.[/QUOTE] Not just anyone can print money though, the amount in circulation is quite strictly controlled. A controlled currency is a lot more stable than an uncontrolled natural resource.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;28547618]Not just anyone can print money though, the amount in circulation is quite strictly controlled. A controlled currency is a lot more stable than an uncontrolled natural resource.[/QUOTE] Its not about preventing counterfeit money.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;28547618]Not just anyone can print money though, the amount in circulation is quite strictly controlled. A controlled currency is a lot more stable than an uncontrolled natural resource.[/QUOTE] It isn't like people are going to be lining up to mines to go get money. Do you REALLY think this will be uncontrolled? [editline]11th March 2011[/editline] Dammit luke stop posting before me

[QUOTE=lukepker;28547405]This is actually a good thing, gold and silver will always be worth something, while pieces of paper might not be.[/QUOTE] The U.S. couldn't adopt enough gold and silver if it wanted to. There just aren't enough orphaned precious metals out there.

Why exactly is gold and silver worth any more than any other rock? If I were to take a group of people from birth and replace gold and silver with coal and quartz, how exactly would that be any different?

[QUOTE=Explosions;28547768]Why exactly is gold and silver worth any more than any other rock? If I were to take a group of people from birth and replace gold and silver with coal and quartz, how exactly would that be any different?[/QUOTE] It's shiny

[QUOTE=CjienX;28547779]It's shiny[/QUOTE] Exactly. The only reason why gold was ever worth anything is because back in ancient times, some kings though it looked shiny, so he made his money out of it.

[QUOTE=Explosions;28547768]Why exactly is gold and silver worth any more than any other rock? If I were to take a group of people from birth and replace gold and silver with coal and quartz, how exactly would that be any different?[/QUOTE] Because Gold and Silver are easy to work with in jewellery and they also look quite good once in jewellery form.

Paper money is a secret method of taxation anyway. If the costs of something are so high that people are likely to be unwilling to pay them in taxes, the central bank just prints more money, and this action destroys the value of the money, meaning that the people have been secretly taxed without them knowing of it. Same thing basically happens when the bank creates "new" money for any reason at all: The bankers (or those they give the money to) have more money, while the value of the currency is diluted, meaning that the "common" people have proportionally less money than before the bank's printing presses were activated. All this just makes the rich richer and the poor poorer. I have no time to go into further details right now, but if you want to know more about this, you can find many articles about it by googling the words "inflation" and "hidden tax".

[QUOTE=CjienX;28547644]It isn't like people are going to be lining up to mines to go get money. Do you REALLY think this will be uncontrolled? [editline]11th March 2011[/editline] Dammit luke stop posting before me[/QUOTE] What would stop gold mines from printing their own money? Err, smelting their own money

Lack of tools. Ask a silly/stupid question.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;28548310]What would stop gold mines from printing their own money? Err, smelting their own money[/QUOTE] It isn't much easier to falsify a golden coin than to falsify a steel one. Actually it's harder, because you need to put the value of the gold into it if you want it to be believable.

[QUOTE=lukepker;28547565]There isn't an a huge amount of gold and silver in the world, while paper, which quite literally grows on tree's, is high in supply.[/QUOTE] There is a [B]huge[/B] abundance of gold in the oceans, all it takes is the technology to get it out. Once we get that technology, then what?

[quote=holycrusade;28548573]there is a [b]huge[/b] abundance of gold in the oceans, all it takes is the technology to get it out. Once we get that technology, then what?[/quote] gold teeth for everyone!

[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;28548476]It isn't much easier to falsify a golden coin than to falsify a steel one. Actually it's harder, because you need to put the value of the gold into it if you want it to be believable.[/QUOTE] Actually it's probably easier. Casting or pouring gold is much easier than casting steel or copper. Paper money if much harder to fake than money made of gold. Using actual gold as currency is a stupid idea. Adopting the gold standard is an idea that probably just isn't the greatest ever.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;28548310]What would stop gold mines from printing their own money? Err, smelting their own money[/QUOTE] "Hey guys, let's make money out of gold and not keep any watch over any gold mines what so ever. Let's also use a blank mold instead of wasting time with tiny details that could make it harder to replicate! BUT WAIT I HAVE A BETTER IDEA! Let's just not even attempt to add any type of identifying mark that requires something that isn't easily obtainable to make!"

[QUOTE=CjienX;28548863]"Hey guys, let's make money out of gold and not keep any watch over any gold mines what so ever. Let's also use a blank mold instead of wasting time with tiny details that could make it harder to replicate! BUT WAIT I HAVE A BETTER IDEA! Let's just not even attempt to add any type of identifying mark that requires something that isn't easily obtainable to make!"[/QUOTE] Why not just use paper money? It's much easier to print, if it gets lost nothing of real value is gone, and it's much easier to secure against counterfeit. You can argue all you like about adopting the gold standard, but using actual precious metal as currency is just plain stupid.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;28547618]Not just anyone can print money though, the amount in circulation is quite strictly controlled. A controlled currency is a lot more stable than an uncontrolled natural resource.[/QUOTE] So you're saying if someone hit gold in their backyard and printed gold coins that'd be wrong? Counterfeit paper money is bad, because there isn't anything backing it, meaning you could print as much as you want without gaining any actual value. With gold, if you put in more gold, you just have more gold. And circulation isn't that strictly controlled, counterfeiters are always working to keep up with the updated legitimate paper. [editline]11th March 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Kagrenak;28548903]Why not just use paper money? It's much easier to print, if it gets lost nothing of real value is gone, and it's much easier to secure against counterfeit. You can argue all you like about adopting the gold standard, but using actual precious metal as currency is just plain stupid.[/QUOTE] How is it stupid? Gold has actual value, and you can't just go in your basement and make gold.

[QUOTE=Kagrenak;28548903]Why not just use paper money? It's much easier to print, if it gets lost nothing of real value is gone, and it's much easier to secure against counterfeit.[/QUOTE] Because paper is worthless where gold and silver isn't. You know how the value of the dollars been dropping? Guess what, if we were using gold and silver the value would be going up.

[QUOTE=Tigster;28548934]So you're saying if someone hit gold in their backyard and printed gold coins that'd be wrong? Counterfeit paper money is bad, because there isn't anything backing it, meaning you could print as much as you want without gaining any actual value. With gold, if you put in more gold, you just have more gold. And circulation isn't that strictly controlled, counterfeiters are always working to keep up with the updated legitimate paper.[/QUOTE] But if you slam more gold into currency based on gold, you just inserted more currency into the market. This devalues the market. Also what about fake gold? Most people aren't going to know the difference between a real gold coin and a fake one. In this hypothetical market, all currency is now gold, so coins would likely be based on some low alloy of gold. No one would notice if the alloy was altered to have no gold. [editline]11th March 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=CjienX;28548945]Because paper is worthless where gold and silver isn't. You know how the value of the dollars been dropping? Guess what, if we were using gold and silver the value would be going up.[/QUOTE] Except gold and silver as actual currency is just as worthless as paper is. If it's something used primarily as currency, the other values of it will go down and with it being used less for jewelry and related items, its value becomes what people make of it. Also, tying world markets to a commodity with variable production is probably not economically viable, seeing as we are going to hit a limit on how much gold there is. Or alternately, we're going to find some large cache of gold, rendering what we have worthless. (What happens if we start mining asteroids and find a moderately sized one that's 10% gold? That's like 5x the amount of gold the Earth has right there.)